Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had no idea they broadcast the draft lottery on tv! Jesus. Reminded me of the Hunger Games.

For real. What a weird thing.

I also didn't realize that the draft was based on picking birthdays.

That's how my dad was selected to go to Vietnam in 1970. Scary stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tonight's episode: I wept the whole way through. OMG.

I wanted to react that way, but for me, it just fell flat. It didn’t seem realistic to me. I couldn’t suspend disbelief. Jack should have had a military buzz cut, especially as he seemed to be a natural leader and straight arrow. Getting the foot shot off? It seemed sensational, like a patient on Grey’s Anatomy impaled on their bicycle’s handlebars. Those are just a couple of little things. Maybe post Private Ryan and Ken Burns’ Vietnam documentary, etc., we have a more realistic idea of what war looks like, and this just seemed like a Hollywood creation.

Grooming standards for various branches of the military have changed for garrison and theater over the years. Yes, Marines traditionally and since the Vietnam era have adhered to the traditional buzz cut. Other branches is services may have had more relaxed standards of grooming while in theater. Jack wasn’t a marine and in a few google searches, you can see some soldiers (not marines) have hair that would be out of standards by today’s grooming standards. And as for your comment balling at the foot being blown off, as someone who served at a hospital in Afghanistan and having seen someone, many in fact, who had their leg blown off, it’s not sensationalized. One second he was patrolling hoping for an uneventful duty, expecting to go to lunch chow, then not 12 minutes later he was being wheeled through our doors with his leg blown off. Nothing sensational about it, it’s war. Below is a pic of a Soldier in Vietnam with seemingly shaggy hair under his Kevlar.
https://alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/vietnampatrol.jpg

PP here. I take your points, although those were just two little things. Even if they were different, it still felt like they were on a set, for whatever amorphous reasons.

Regarding the foot— of course a foot blown off was not unusual. It was more the way it was treated in the scene. The soldier asking for Jack to find his foot, holding it under his arm, passing it to Jack almost in jest as they awaited the helicopter. Some of that just seemed gratuitious, which weakened the dramatic effect. I googled the hair. Jack’s hair still seemed a little long on the sides. I didn’t expect a full on buzz cut, but I think the scene would have worked better if he didn’t have the exact same haircut, minus some sideburns, as he had before enlisting.

But the set-like feel was more intangible than those two things.

Also, this was in 1970 or 1971. No one really gave a **** about grooming standards in Vietnam by then. I found it completely plausible. This was guerilla warfare by the VC. One minute you could be walking along, the next blown to bits.

That’s a good point, towards the mid to end of the war, It was a different ball game. Vietnam was such an interesting era and sad for veterans who returned, tragic even.

I thought the episode was fantastic. The end, when they show all those babies in the nursery, and you realize every one of them with the blue on the tag (a boy) also heard their birthday called out on TV and went to Vietnam.... (well ok most of them, not the ones with physical problems or other reasons not to serve) Powerful. Lives changed forever and lost because of the day on which you were born. A really neat way to drive that point home, I thought.

Here's my little PSA:

If you have never served in the military, but want to honor those who have, I urge/beg/encourage you to watch Ken Burns series on Vietnam. http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/the-vietnam-war/episodes/

It is a commitment of time, but it's the least we can do for those who DO serve. DH (ret. AF) and I recorded this series last fall. Some of it is hard, some of it is confusing (Vietnamese names of places), but it was really a 360 view of the war (they speak to Viet Cong, North Vietnamese, South Vietnamese, US military who volunteered, those who went to Canada, the siblings/parents/wives left behind, etc.) They used the words of our leaders, including tapes of them speaking to show what their understandings were at the time. (spoiler: sickening).

I feel that the best way to honor those who serve(d) is to know history and to make decision that will keep them out of harm's way whenever possible. Prior to watching Ken Burn's Vietnam, the only things I knew about Vietnam came from "Good Morning, Vietnam" and "Forest Gump" and the like. I urge you to take the journey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tonight's episode: I wept the whole way through. OMG.

I wanted to react that way, but for me, it just fell flat. It didn’t seem realistic to me. I couldn’t suspend disbelief. Jack should have had a military buzz cut, especially as he seemed to be a natural leader and straight arrow. Getting the foot shot off? It seemed sensational, like a patient on Grey’s Anatomy impaled on their bicycle’s handlebars. Those are just a couple of little things. Maybe post Private Ryan and Ken Burns’ Vietnam documentary, etc., we have a more realistic idea of what war looks like, and this just seemed like a Hollywood creation.

Grooming standards for various branches of the military have changed for garrison and theater over the years. Yes, Marines traditionally and since the Vietnam era have adhered to the traditional buzz cut. Other branches is services may have had more relaxed standards of grooming while in theater. Jack wasn’t a marine and in a few google searches, you can see some soldiers (not marines) have hair that would be out of standards by today’s grooming standards. And as for your comment balling at the foot being blown off, as someone who served at a hospital in Afghanistan and having seen someone, many in fact, who had their leg blown off, it’s not sensationalized. One second he was patrolling hoping for an uneventful duty, expecting to go to lunch chow, then not 12 minutes later he was being wheeled through our doors with his leg blown off. Nothing sensational about it, it’s war. Below is a pic of a Soldier in Vietnam with seemingly shaggy hair under his Kevlar.
https://alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/vietnampatrol.jpg

PP here. I take your points, although those were just two little things. Even if they were different, it still felt like they were on a set, for whatever amorphous reasons.

Regarding the foot— of course a foot blown off was not unusual. It was more the way it was treated in the scene. The soldier asking for Jack to find his foot, holding it under his arm, passing it to Jack almost in jest as they awaited the helicopter. Some of that just seemed gratuitious, which weakened the dramatic effect. I googled the hair. Jack’s hair still seemed a little long on the sides. I didn’t expect a full on buzz cut, but I think the scene would have worked better if he didn’t have the exact same haircut, minus some sideburns, as he had before enlisting.

But the set-like feel was more intangible than those two things.

Also, this was in 1970 or 1971. No one really gave a **** about grooming standards in Vietnam by then. I found it completely plausible. This was guerilla warfare by the VC. One minute you could be walking along, the next blown to bits.

I’ve actually wondered for a while about how much Milo’s hair and facial hair is a problem during production, since they jump back and forth between decades so much. Yes, they can do some cosmetically, but not all of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tonight's episode: I wept the whole way through. OMG.

I wanted to react that way, but for me, it just fell flat. It didn’t seem realistic to me. I couldn’t suspend disbelief. Jack should have had a military buzz cut, especially as he seemed to be a natural leader and straight arrow. Getting the foot shot off? It seemed sensational, like a patient on Grey’s Anatomy impaled on their bicycle’s handlebars. Those are just a couple of little things. Maybe post Private Ryan and Ken Burns’ Vietnam documentary, etc., we have a more realistic idea of what war looks like, and this just seemed like a Hollywood creation.

Grooming standards for various branches of the military have changed for garrison and theater over the years. Yes, Marines traditionally and since the Vietnam era have adhered to the traditional buzz cut. Other branches is services may have had more relaxed standards of grooming while in theater. Jack wasn’t a marine and in a few google searches, you can see some soldiers (not marines) have hair that would be out of standards by today’s grooming standards. And as for your comment balling at the foot being blown off, as someone who served at a hospital in Afghanistan and having seen someone, many in fact, who had their leg blown off, it’s not sensationalized. One second he was patrolling hoping for an uneventful duty, expecting to go to lunch chow, then not 12 minutes later he was being wheeled through our doors with his leg blown off. Nothing sensational about it, it’s war. Below is a pic of a Soldier in Vietnam with seemingly shaggy hair under his Kevlar.
https://alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/vietnampatrol.jpg

PP here. I take your points, although those were just two little things. Even if they were different, it still felt like they were on a set, for whatever amorphous reasons.

Regarding the foot— of course a foot blown off was not unusual. It was more the way it was treated in the scene. The soldier asking for Jack to find his foot, holding it under his arm, passing it to Jack almost in jest as they awaited the helicopter. Some of that just seemed gratuitious, which weakened the dramatic effect. I googled the hair. Jack’s hair still seemed a little long on the sides. I didn’t expect a full on buzz cut, but I think the scene would have worked better if he didn’t have the exact same haircut, minus some sideburns, as he had before enlisting.

But the set-like feel was more intangible than those two things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had no idea they broadcast the draft lottery on tv! Jesus. Reminded me of the Hunger Games.

For real. What a weird thing.

I also didn't realize that the draft was based on picking birthdays.

This stuff should be taught in history in school. I am in my 50s (I was 7 in 1969) and remember this vaguely, mainly because my parents were anti-war and so horrified by the lottery process. What unimaginable pressure on young men (especially poor young men because those in college could be deferred) to have to watch their fate be decided on live TV.

The college deferment was taught at my school and I remember thinking how horribly unfair that was to poor young men. Never was aware of the tv lottery though and it just struck me as so surreal. I can not even imagine how horrible it would have been to be 19 years old and watching something like that.

My father was one of those poor guys who wasn't college bound and didn't have a daddy to get him a deferment or cushy military assignment. He also morally didn't feel like he could dodge the draft, so off he went when he was drafted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had no idea they broadcast the draft lottery on tv! Jesus. Reminded me of the Hunger Games.

For real. What a weird thing.

I also didn't realize that the draft was based on picking birthdays.

This stuff should be taught in history in school. I am in my 50s (I was 7 in 1969) and remember this vaguely, mainly because my parents were anti-war and so horrified by the lottery process. What unimaginable pressure on young men (especially poor young men because those in college could be deferred) to have to watch their fate be decided on live TV.

The college deferment was taught at my school and I remember thinking how horribly unfair that was to poor young men. Never was aware of the tv lottery though and it just struck me as so surreal. I can not even imagine how horrible it would have been to be 19 years old and watching something like that.

I was just reading more about the episode and see it was co-written by Tim O'Brien, who wrote The Things They Carried, linked short stories about the Vietnam War (he fought in it) that was a finalist for the Pulitzer. Perhaps his skills as a novelist don't translate as well to script writing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had no idea they broadcast the draft lottery on tv! Jesus. Reminded me of the Hunger Games.

For real. What a weird thing.

I also didn't realize that the draft was based on picking birthdays.

This stuff should be taught in history in school. I am in my 50s (I was 7 in 1969) and remember this vaguely, mainly because my parents were anti-war and so horrified by the lottery process. What unimaginable pressure on young men (especially poor young men because those in college could be deferred) to have to watch their fate be decided on live TV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tonight's episode: I wept the whole way through. OMG.

I wanted to react that way, but for me, it just fell flat. It didn’t seem realistic to me. I couldn’t suspend disbelief. Jack should have had a military buzz cut, especially as he seemed to be a natural leader and straight arrow. Getting the foot shot off? It seemed sensational, like a patient on Grey’s Anatomy impaled on their bicycle’s handlebars. Those are just a couple of little things. Maybe post Private Ryan and Ken Burns’ Vietnam documentary, etc., we have a more realistic idea of what war looks like, and this just seemed like a Hollywood creation.

Grooming standards for various branches of the military have changed for garrison and theater over the years. Yes, Marines traditionally and since the Vietnam era have adhered to the traditional buzz cut. Other branches is services may have had more relaxed standards of grooming while in theater. Jack wasn’t a marine and in a few google searches, you can see some soldiers (not marines) have hair that would be out of standards by today’s grooming standards. And as for your comment balling at the foot being blown off, as someone who served at a hospital in Afghanistan and having seen someone, many in fact, who had their leg blown off, it’s not sensationalized. One second he was patrolling hoping for an uneventful duty, expecting to go to lunch chow, then not 12 minutes later he was being wheeled through our doors with his leg blown off. Nothing sensational about it, it’s war. Below is a pic of a Soldier in Vietnam with seemingly shaggy hair under his Kevlar.
https://alphahistory.com/vietnamwar/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/vietnampatrol.jpg

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are right about the hair. I hadn't thought about that. What I was thinking was maybe there is a child he didn't know he fathered in Vietnam that will be discovered at some point.

I find it unrealistic that Jack's dad changed so drastically in, what, less than 10 years?

He started drinking and became like his own father. They made a point of him being a teetotaler in that hospital scene.

They are showing how strong the alcoholic “gene” is. 4 generations of Pearsons.

I get that, but for him to go from a loving father to such a horribly abusive man was what bothered me. Jack the drunk wasn't abusive at all.

We only caught a glimpse of his dad before he started drinking. Alcoholism affects everyone differently. Jack’s character seems to be a very gentle protective guy, non violent and rational. His dad, well, before he started drinking we aren’t sure what his temperament was when he was emotional or angry. It’s very sad the circumstances that can Change a person’s life in such a short time. Your life can change in an instant in a second, imagine what ten years can do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had no idea they broadcast the draft lottery on tv! Jesus. Reminded me of the Hunger Games.

For real. What a weird thing.

I also didn't realize that the draft was based on picking birthdays.

Anonymous wrote:Had no idea they broadcast the draft lottery on tv! Jesus. Reminded me of the Hunger Games.

For real. What a weird thing.