Anonymous
08/04/2016 19:49
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:We are talking about exposure to a faith that is practiced by the other half of the extended family - not converting the kids. I would think this is educational. My kids are catholic and learn Hanukkah songs at a progressive school. We go to Sunday school. And if I choose to raise my kids as Catholics but my in laws want to expose them to their religion/culture why not?
huge difference between learning one song at school, and being exposed to extended prosylitizing by family members who have a pattern of trying to undermine the parents' religious decisions.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 19:48
Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You are awful OP, and the perfect example while people should think many times before you marry out of the faith.
I do know several couples who manage it gracefully, and not one of them would have lost their mind over vacation bible camp.
right, I am sure you would be a-ok if your atheist inlaws enrolled your kids in a camp where they were lectured about how stupid religion is. Or a Muslim camp where they are pressured to convert.
Or if were an evangelical megachurch a la OP's ILs
Anonymous
08/04/2016 19:47
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:We are talking about exposure to a faith that is practiced by the other half of the extended family - not converting the kids. I would think this is educational. My kids are catholic and learn Hanukkah songs at a progressive school. We go to Sunday school. And if I choose to raise my kids as Catholics but my in laws want to expose them to their religion/culture why not?
That is all fine but it should be a discussion topic. Grandparents shouldn't be signing kids up for secret bible camp.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 19:47
Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
You are awful OP, and the perfect example while people should think many times before you marry out of the faith.
I do know several couples who manage it gracefully, and not one of them would have lost their mind over vacation bible camp.
right, I am sure you would be a-ok if your atheist inlaws enrolled your kids in a camp where they were lectured about how stupid religion is. Or a Muslim camp where they are pressured to convert.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 19:34
Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
You are awful OP, and the perfect example while people should think many times before you marry out of the faith.
I do know several couples who manage it gracefully, and not one of them would have lost their mind over vacation bible camp.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 19:28
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
We are talking about exposure to a faith that is practiced by the other half of the extended family - not converting the kids. I would think this is educational. My kids are catholic and learn Hanukkah songs at a progressive school. We go to Sunday school. And if I choose to raise my kids as Catholics but my in laws want to expose them to their religion/culture why not?
Anonymous
08/04/2016 12:07
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I married the man I love and we have been 100% in agreement on how to raise our children since before they were born. We agreed to raise them Jewish, we agreed to not have them baptized or attending Bible camp. His mother is not happy, but it's really not her choice. Repeatedly trying to undermine our decision doesn't show a problem with our marriage, she's disrespecting our choice for our kids. I hope that whatever my kids chose for themselves and their children some day I will simply respect and not try to undermine. Isn't that what we all want?
May I ask if your husband converted if you are 100% on board?
NP. I'm Jewish, and my non-Jewish husband didn't become a Jew when we got married. We agreed when we were engaged that we would raise our kids Jewish. Ten years in, and the plan is still firm. Neither of our families has a problem with this, either. I don't understand why PPs are confused.
I just think that if OP's husband has not converted as I suspect, it would add to MIL confusion why bible camp is out of question.
The father himself is still Christian it seems by choice. So why can't the kids at least be exposed to the roots of a parents and grandparents believes?
Huh? The kids are Jewish. The dad isn't religious - he may not even consider himself a Christian. The only people to decide about this are the parents.
If the grandparents want to expose the grandkids then they should discuss with the parents, not sign the kids up secretly for a religious camp.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 12:02
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I just think that if OP's husband has not converted as I suspect, it would add to MIL confusion why bible camp is out of question.
The father himself is still Christian it seems by choice. So why can't the kids at least be exposed to the roots of a parents and grandparents believes?
You, and many others on this thread, are overlooking the crucial fact that the father of these children agrees with his Jewish wife that the children are being raised Jewish. At no point has OP said anything other than that her husband fully supports her. So why do the grandparents get a say, if that directly conflicts with the parents' wishes? It may be the grandparents' beliefs, but it is not the parents'.
And, to address a point that others have made, raising children in a religion different from the grandparents, and resisting the grandparents efforts to educate the grandchildren in those beliefs, doesn't automatically equate to rejecting the grandparents.
Naturally, the grandparents don't get a choice. We are talking about exposure via camp. We are NOT talking giving up the chosen religion.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 11:00
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I just think that if OP's husband has not converted as I suspect, it would add to MIL confusion why bible camp is out of question.
The father himself is still Christian it seems by choice. So why can't the kids at least be exposed to the roots of a parents and grandparents believes?
You, and many others on this thread, are overlooking the crucial fact that the father of these children agrees with his Jewish wife that the children are being raised Jewish. At no point has OP said anything other than that her husband fully supports her. So why do the grandparents get a say, if that directly conflicts with the parents' wishes? It may be the grandparents' beliefs, but it is not the parents'.
And, to address a point that others have made, raising children in a religion different from the grandparents, and resisting the grandparents efforts to educate the grandchildren in those beliefs, doesn't automatically equate to rejecting the grandparents.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 10:09
Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
How did you explain this to your children? I think canceling your trip altogether was the nuclear option. You probably should have tried talking it out first instead, but I sense your real wish is to cut the inlaws out of your life completely, right? Please remember that there are very few people on this earth that live your kids like their grands. You've treated them as completely expendable, which perhaps in your mind they are.
I agree with the sentiment of this, although I also agree that you should not have sent them to the camp. It's ok to tell grandma that the kids can't go to the camp, but canceling the trip was really the nuclear option, and you jumped right to it. Why? I could see that approach AFTER you discuss your position with her, and she refuses to cancel the camp, but why as the first option?
Anonymous
08/04/2016 09:45
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I married the man I love and we have been 100% in agreement on how to raise our children since before they were born. We agreed to raise them Jewish, we agreed to not have them baptized or attending Bible camp. His mother is not happy, but it's really not her choice. Repeatedly trying to undermine our decision doesn't show a problem with our marriage, she's disrespecting our choice for our kids. I hope that whatever my kids chose for themselves and their children some day I will simply respect and not try to undermine. Isn't that what we all want?
May I ask if your husband converted if you are 100% on board?
NP. I'm Jewish, and my non-Jewish husband didn't become a Jew when we got married. We agreed when we were engaged that we would raise our kids Jewish. Ten years in, and the plan is still firm. Neither of our families has a problem with this, either. I don't understand why PPs are confused.
I just think that if OP's husband has not converted as I suspect, it would add to MIL confusion why bible camp is out of question.
The father himself is still Christian it seems by choice. So why can't the kids at least be exposed to the roots of a parents and grandparents believes?
Anonymous
08/04/2016 09:42
Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I was raised Orthodox Jewish and left the faith entirely.
My parents tried to force Orthodox services and ideas on my kids behind my back (gender roles, some biblical literalism, the evils of intermarriage) and I was furious. My husband and I drew the line -- zero tolerance for substituting their judgment on religious upbringing.
As someone raised Jewish i know that the idea of "Judeo-Christian" religion is a fabrication for American politics to privilege religion without alienating Jews or seeming anti-Semitic. The principles and practices are not similar. There are also very few Jews left in the world and many people (not me) feel obligated and inspired to keep the traditions alive. If the mother is Jewish there's no barrier to that, even if the father is not.
Christian Bible camp is incompatible with what the parents chose.
Stand you're ground. You're the parents. They don't get to muscle their way into decisions that belong to the parents. It's a short and predictable road to posts about grandparents undermining you in other things.
My parents tried to force Orthodox services and ideas on my kids behind my back (gender roles, some biblical literalism, the evils of intermarriage) and I was furious. My husband and I drew the line -- zero tolerance for substituting their judgment on religious upbringing.
As someone raised Jewish i know that the idea of "Judeo-Christian" religion is a fabrication for American politics to privilege religion without alienating Jews or seeming anti-Semitic. The principles and practices are not similar. There are also very few Jews left in the world and many people (not me) feel obligated and inspired to keep the traditions alive. If the mother is Jewish there's no barrier to that, even if the father is not.
Christian Bible camp is incompatible with what the parents chose.
Stand you're ground. You're the parents. They don't get to muscle their way into decisions that belong to the parents. It's a short and predictable road to posts about grandparents undermining you in other things.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 06:51
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
How did you explain this to your children? I think canceling your trip altogether was the nuclear option. You probably should have tried talking it out first instead, but I sense your real wish is to cut the inlaws out of your life completely, right? Please remember that there are very few people on this earth that live your kids like their grands. You've treated them as completely expendable, which perhaps in your mind they are.
I'd be upset too, OP. For me it wouldn't be so much about the Christian part but about dropping my kids off to be cared for by adults I don't know, whose backgrounds I can't confirm. But I'd explain that...not throw a tantrum.
I'd be upset too, OP. For me it wouldn't be so much about the Christian part but about dropping my kids off to be cared for by adults I don't know, whose backgrounds I can't confirm. But I'd explain that...not throw a tantrum.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 06:46
Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I hope that whatever my kids chose for themselves and their children some day I will simply respect and not try to undermine. Isn't that what we all want?
The point I want to gently make is your MIL raised your husband in the Christian faith and hoped that he would remain in that faith. You also are raising them in a faith ( Jewish in this case) and your hope is that you want them to remain Jewish, when they are adults. I think you said you wouldn't care because this is the "politically correct" thing to say. But, while I believe you might support them I also believe that you would be hurt if they either left the faith or married someone of a different faith. If not, why fight so hard over a week of Bible camp?
Religion is all about tradition and don't you think that your MIL is hurting because her dream of Christmas morning or Easter egg hunts have vanished? Even worse, the DIL is forbidding her to share some aspects of her religion because of "boundaries" and being right at all cost. Never mind that this rift will affect the relationship between the grandmother and grandchildren.
Can you put yourself in your MIL position at all without saying she is attacking MY religion? Perhaps bend a little? If your kids are old enough they are learning from you that it is "my way or the high way" Is this the lesson you want to pass on?
You can still be "correct" and wrong at the same time. The world isn't as black and white as you portray it. But, perhaps you and your MIL have more in common than you think.
The point I want to gently make is your MIL raised your husband in the Christian faith and hoped that he would remain in that faith. You also are raising them in a faith ( Jewish in this case) and your hope is that you want them to remain Jewish, when they are adults. I think you said you wouldn't care because this is the "politically correct" thing to say. But, while I believe you might support them I also believe that you would be hurt if they either left the faith or married someone of a different faith. If not, why fight so hard over a week of Bible camp?
Religion is all about tradition and don't you think that your MIL is hurting because her dream of Christmas morning or Easter egg hunts have vanished? Even worse, the DIL is forbidding her to share some aspects of her religion because of "boundaries" and being right at all cost. Never mind that this rift will affect the relationship between the grandmother and grandchildren.
Can you put yourself in your MIL position at all without saying she is attacking MY religion? Perhaps bend a little? If your kids are old enough they are learning from you that it is "my way or the high way" Is this the lesson you want to pass on?
You can still be "correct" and wrong at the same time. The world isn't as black and white as you portray it. But, perhaps you and your MIL have more in common than you think.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 06:28
Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Np. I'm Jewish and my parents sent us to vacation bible school because it was free. All my sibs and I and our kids are still Jewish. We celebrate Shabbat and go to synagogue. One week of bible camp won't change a thing about your Jewish home.