Anonymous wrote:These kids were liked, loved and well treated by many. They had hoards of friends and stable families. They knew right from wrong. The point is that kids make bad decisions. How do we let them grow up and help guide them to be strong, competent decision makers?

They were. They are good kids. I know many, many wootton kids BUT one look at Twitter and a lot of what they post is about is partying, drinking, shots, vodka...some pictures students posted of the deceased boys have them posing with better/drinks in hand.

There is a reason kids shouldn't be drinking. Clearly the culture at wootton is one of parents looking the other way or condoning it. That has to change.if not only because of drunk driving but because of sexual assault, alcohol poisoning and other bad decision making.

Anonymous wrote:These kids were liked, loved and well treated by many. They had hoards of friends and stable families. They knew right from wrong. The point is that kids make bad decisions. How do we let them grow up and help guide them to be strong, competent decision makers?

I don't think you can be a competent decision maker when you're drunk.

I don't think adults serving you alcohol until you are shit-faced are competent decision makers either.

I don't think parents who ignore alcohol citations and still let you drive are competent decision makers.

Before your kid leaves for the evening, please ask...

Where are you going?
Who's driving?
Are they going to drink?
Call me if they drink. I don't care what time it is. I'll come get you.

This probably wasn't the first time the kids drove drunk, only the first time some of them ended up dead. We'll be reading about another horrific crash in a few years and people saying they were good kids, good parents. True, but you still end up with dead kids unless you hammer home the message not to drive drunk or get into a car with someone who was drinking.

These kids were liked, loved and well treated by many. They had hoards of friends and stable families. They knew right from wrong. The point is that kids make bad decisions. How do we let them grow up and help guide them to be strong, competent decision makers?

Anonymous wrote:I know/knew all of these kids well. All I can say is please try to be thoughtful in how your are processing this whole thing. These kids are and were wonderful, witty, interesting, wacky kids. None of them deserved this fate for things that millions of people did in their teen years.

no one deserves this fate. teenagers are wired differently. no amount of parenting can change that biology. the stupid things I did that my parents never knew.

Pray for the day this happens. sooner the better

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/advanced-driver-alcohol-detection-technology-may-be-future-safety-option.html

Anonymous wrote:I grew up without ever watching/reading/hearing anything about crashes like this - yet I never got drunk and would never be in a moving car without a seat belt on. The only thing my parents needed to do was make the rules very clear, be very strict with them, state clearly what happens to people who get wasted or don't wear seat belts during accidents and keep me away from kids who would drink or think not wearing seat belts was cool.

This is ALL about parents not parenting well. I grew up with a legal drinking age of 16 for light alcohol like beer and 18 for anything else. There was no such accident as this one or the many others where I grew up. Ever. If parents parent well teens can drink responsibly without getting drunk (even though personally I prefer a legal drinking age of 18 to 16 I also believe a huge reason for teenage over-drinking IS the fact that legal drinking age is 21. It is SO forbidden for SO long that teens just go overboard behind their parents back). And they can drink without ever getting near a car. And they will wear seat belts when they are in a car. It is ALL about parenting. Nothing else.

Parents could make the rules very clear, be very strict with them, state clearly what happens to people who get wasted or don't wear seat belts during accidents, and still have teenagers who do dumb things, including getting drunk and making all of the dumb decisions that people are much more likely to make when they're drunk. Then what? Then it isn't ALL about the parenting?

I also wonder how your parents kept you away from kids who drank or thought that not wearing seat belts was cool. Were you homeschooled and prevented from joining any activity involving any teenagers?

I know/knew all of these kids well. All I can say is please try to be thoughtful in how your are processing this whole thing. These kids are and were wonderful, witty, interesting, wacky kids. None of them deserved this fate for things that millions of people did in their teen years.

Anonymous wrote:Geez, the judgements posted here. I happen to know one of the parents of one of the dead kids. Nicest person in the world. Made sure to be home in time from work to help raise the kids. Solid, good human, who valued their kids and worked hard for them. These stupid judgments about people you don't know is bullshit. Be careful casting stuff like that, you never know when it might come right back to you.

Most people aren't doubting the sincerity of the parents or kids. The kids who died shouldn't have been getting into a car with someone who also had been drinking. Their judgement was all equally impaired and all equally culpable for the result in my mind. They didn't deserve what happened but it was completely avoidable.

The biggest theme to this thread is responding to underage drinking. It's been a long-standing problem. But understand this, parents know their kids have been drinking and getting to and from parties. Parents who threw the party knew that drunk kids were getting behind the wheel. Maybe kids will drink no matter what you do, but let's start by...

--stop serving underage minors
--collect keys at the door
--breathalizers come in key chain form now for $30:
http://www.breathalyzer.net/bactrack-keychain-breathalyzer.html?gclid=COejq63tvcYCFZYWHwod2_UA8g
Drivers can test themselves if they shouldn't be drinking
--instruct kids to call parents, cab, or sober driver organizations

It really shouldn't be this difficult and better than scraping a kid's remains off the pavement.

Anonymous wrote:What's sufficient punishment for killing two people?

Well, not too long ago Kevin Coffay got 20 years for killing 3 friends in a drinking and driving accident. Families of the dead kids felt it wasn't enough. Thing is, whether it is or not, his life is going to be really tough. He's lost everything and is not likely to be able to rebuild much of a life after being incarcerated. It's really scary that our kids can do stupid things because they are immature stupid kids and those stupid things can ruin their lives forever. I keep reading this thread hoping to get ideas for dealing with my teens and soon-to-be teens. I have a son with ADHD and his impulse control is non-existent and I know that teen drinking and drunk driving are areas that will likely appeal to him.

Really no sense arguing with the person that thinks they are above us all and they are the perfect parent with perfect kids and nothing will ever go wrong. Good luck. I am out of here.

If we assume that many, many kids are out drinking on the weekends, what is the factor that separates the kids who live from the ones who wind up riding with a drunk or being that drunk driver themselves?
Can't we assume they have all heard the message over and over?
What makes some kids disregard it and die, and other kids remember it, and live?

Anonymous wrote:Geez, the judgements posted here. I happen to know one of the parents of one of the dead kids. Nicest person in the world. Made sure to be home in time from work to help raise the kids. Solid, good human, who valued their kids and worked hard for them. These stupid judgments about people you don't know is bullshit. Be careful casting stuff like that, you never know when it might come right back to you.

agree.

-parent of a 17 yo

What's sufficient punishment for killing two people?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Geez, the judgements posted here. I happen to know one of the parents of one of the dead kids. Nicest person in the world. Made sure to be home in time from work to help raise the kids. Solid, good human, who valued their kids and worked hard for them. These stupid judgments about people you don't know is bullshit. Be careful casting stuff like that, you never know when it might come right back to you.

Many of us have "worked hard" for our kids.
Perhaps it's time to allow our kids to work hard for themselves?

Many of us have "worked hard" for our kids.

Many kids have ALSO worked hard.

Even so .. Bad things happen.

I hate to break it to everyone... But... Bad things happen to good people, everybody makes mistakes and sometimes the punishment does NOT fit the crime.

Anonymous wrote:Geez, the judgements posted here. I happen to know one of the parents of one of the dead kids. Nicest person in the world. Made sure to be home in time from work to help raise the kids. Solid, good human, who valued their kids and worked hard for them. These stupid judgments about people you don't know is bullshit. Be careful casting stuff like that, you never know when it might come right back to you.

Many of us have "worked hard" for our kids.
Perhaps it's time to allow our kids to work hard for themselves?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a feeling that many of the PPs with strong opinions don't have teens yet.

I think they do. I think several people posting here are in Wootton cluster and are really mad about a subculture of drinking and drugging, and most about the parents who purposefully look the other way as long as grades are good. I know I am. I know "many" Wootton parents who are militant about no drugs or alcohol. And many who enable. And many others who just don't have a clue, even though they could if they tried.

The biggest question I have is why the parents of the teens at the party aren't encouraging their kids to come forward to investigators with information. It sounds like it was a big party and the parents must have a sense of of their kids were in attendance. As one of the victim's families resides in my community, I do want to be respectful of the need for everyone to grieve but I am concerned about the clamming up of those involved.

Speaking the TRUTH may even HELP the grieving process. NOT speaking the TRUTH to the authorities is a HORRIFIC reflection on the families involved, and on their school.

Any idea why they aren't speaking?
We have two dead people here.