Anonymous wrote:They also taught me that my non-Catholic beloved, kind uncle was not getting into heaven.

Babies who die before baptism don't get into heaven.

There is such a thing as the Devil. And Hell.

If you hear the word of God and don't believe, you are damned.

I saw the movie the Exorcists and was terrified for years. Found out that according to my Catholic faith, it could ALL BE TRUE.

Women can't be/shouldn't be priests.

The best woman was the one who somehow found a way to give birth AND remain a virgin.

All the best jobs, like Father, Son, and Priest are held by males.

The reason for human suffering is that stupid B*tch Eve and the whole Apple thing, which is why women suffer in childbirth to this day.

God made man first, and woman as an afterthought, was created from a part of his body. Instead of, of course, the obvious truth, that all living beings are created from their mothers' bodies.

etc. etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not the OP, I would like to clarify something about the Wiccan perception of God/Goddess. While I cannot speak for all Wiccans,
To me it is important to remember that the Creator inherently has no body. The Creator is neither male nor female. Whether we use the name Yahweh, Allah, Jesus, Buddah, etc., these are all just constructs that allow our feeble human minds to wrap our minds around the idea of GOD.

It has been very liberating and validating for me as a born and bred Catholic to contemplate God as a Goddess instead of only the male principle. To think of God as the Mother. To think of femininity in all of its manifestations as being connected to the divine. I always felt alienated from the Catholicism of my youth for what to me was its clear misogyny. I rejected prayer and faith of any kind for about 15 years. Discovering Paganism and an alternative vision of God - the Goddess - allowed me to embrace, and be embraced by, faith again.

Pagans revere nature, the waxing and waning of the moon, the mystery of the moon's 28 day cycle, so like our own natural cycle. We tune into the coming spring, celebrate the greening and blooming of summer, store up our energy in the fall, and rest in winter.

I feel as if the Judeo-Christian faiths of my youth robbed me of my inheritance as a woman who is just as connected to the divine as anyone else. When you start to research religion, and how many common religious themes we still talk about today are repackaged from older religions - some matriarchal - you start to feel as if somebody "pulled on over on you". Religion is not only made up of myths, but the myths are specifically structured to reinforce the goals of an oppressive ruling class.

"Many faces or facets, one god" was a freeing concept for me. Whatever human imagery I choose to cloak the Creator in as I think about God, pray to God, commune with God.... God is indifferent. God will reach back to you however you need Her too, with the face of a Mother or a Father or... a Goat! If that's what floats your boat.

The divine is always there, whispering to us, waiting for us to reach out. Traditional religion poisoned the well for me for a long time.... paganism liberated me.

I doubt some posters on this thread can understand it but, that's how it is for me.

As for the definition of good and evil. I know the difference between light and dark. I know chocolate from vanilla. I know good from evil in my soul, from my toes to the ends of my hair. I don't need a book or ten commandments chiseled in stone to tell me what's wrong or right.

I agree that we wouldn't want a free for all and that's what laws and morality are for. But the Bible is not the only source of morality. The Bible is merely one codification, one expression of morality (and evil if you read it) and SOME people may need it spelled out. I don't need to be told not to lie, steal, or cause any sort of pain to others. The very idea of causing pain revolts me.

"And harm none, do what you will".

What I find most interesting is that the folks who say that don't need a religious/Bible/etc to know right from wrong, good from evil, etc WERE, in fact, raised in a faith that denounces these very things. So, while you say you don't need religion to tell you these things, religion did, in fact, teach you these things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

THIS. My conservative, Hispanic, Catholic, Republican, gay boss would fire me in an instant if he thought I was a Pagan, because of his ignorance on this subject and his prejudices. I tremble to think what a religious conservative judge might do in a custody situation.

I applied for a job teaching second grade at a private "Christian" (I use quotes because in my opinion there was nothing Christian about it) School. When I was hired, I was asked to sign a morality contract that had language about the destructive nature of homosexuality. I also had to promise to attend traditional Christian church services either at their church or at another "approved" local church. Needless to say, I did not sign the form nor take the job. And I made it very clear how I felt about their definition of "morality". The scary thing is that these people are teaching children.

Why is this surprising to you? Most religious schools require that you adhere to their beliefs (or, at the very least, don't outright defy them).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

THIS. My conservative, Hispanic, Catholic, Republican, gay boss would fire me in an instant if he thought I was a Pagan, because of his ignorance on this subject and his prejudices. I tremble to think what a religious conservative judge might do in a custody situation.

Anonymous wrote:I am not the OP, I would like to clarify something about the Wiccan perception of God/Goddess. While I cannot speak for all Wiccans,
To me it is important to remember that the Creator inherently has no body. The Creator is neither male nor female. Whether we use the name Yahweh, Allah, Jesus, Buddah, etc., these are all just constructs that allow our feeble human minds to wrap our minds around the idea of GOD.

It has been very liberating and validating for me as a born and bred Catholic to contemplate God as a Goddess instead of only the male principle. To think of God as the Mother. To think of femininity in all of its manifestations as being connected to the divine. I always felt alienated from the Catholicism of my youth for what to me was its clear misogyny. I rejected prayer and faith of any kind for about 15 years. Discovering Paganism and an alternative vision of God - the Goddess - allowed me to embrace, and be embraced by, faith again.

Pagans revere nature, the waxing and waning of the moon, the mystery of the moon's 28 day cycle, so like our own natural cycle. We tune into the coming spring, celebrate the greening and blooming of summer, store up our energy in the fall, and rest in winter.

I feel as if the Judeo-Christian faiths of my youth robbed me of my inheritance as a woman who is just as connected to the divine as anyone else. When you start to research religion, and how many common religious themes we still talk about today are repackaged from older religions - some matriarchal - you start to feel as if somebody "pulled on over on you". Religion is not only made up of myths, but the myths are specifically structured to reinforce the goals of an oppressive ruling class.

"Many faces or facets, one god" was a freeing concept for me. Whatever human imagery I choose to cloak the Creator in as I think about God, pray to God, commune with God.... God is indifferent. God will reach back to you however you need Her too, with the face of a Mother or a Father or... a Goat! If that's what floats your boat.

The divine is always there, whispering to us, waiting for us to reach out. Traditional religion poisoned the well for me for a long time.... paganism liberated me.

I doubt some posters on this thread can understand it but, that's how it is for me.

As for the definition of good and evil. I know the difference between light and dark. I know chocolate from vanilla. I know good from evil in my soul, from my toes to the ends of my hair. I don't need a book or ten commandments chiseled in stone to tell me what's wrong or right.

I agree that we wouldn't want a free for all and that's what laws and morality are for. But the Bible is not the only source of morality. The Bible is merely one codification, one expression of morality (and evil if you read it) and SOME people may need it spelled out. I don't need to be told not to lie, steal, or cause any sort of pain to others. The very idea of causing pain revolts me.

"And harm none, do what you will".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

THIS. My conservative, Hispanic, Catholic, Republican, gay boss would fire me in an instant if he thought I was a Pagan, because of his ignorance on this subject and his prejudices. I tremble to think what a religious conservative judge might do in a custody situation.

I applied for a job teaching second grade at a private "Christian" (I use quotes because in my opinion there was nothing Christian about it) School. When I was hired, I was asked to sign a morality contract that had language about the destructive nature of homosexuality. I also had to promise to attend traditional Christian church services either at their church or at another "approved" local church. Needless to say, I did not sign the form nor take the job. And I made it very clear how I felt about their definition of "morality". The scary thing is that these people are teaching children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

THIS. My conservative, Hispanic, Catholic, Republican, gay boss would fire me in an instant if he thought I was a Pagan, because of his ignorance on this subject and his prejudices. I tremble to think what a religious conservative judge might do in a custody situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

THIS. My conservative, Hispanic, Catholic, Republican, gay boss would fire me in an instant if he thought I was a Pagan, because of his ignorance on this subject and his prejudices. I tremble to think what a religious conservative judge might do in a custody situation.

Your republican boss is gay ? And Catholic?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

THIS. My conservative, Hispanic, Catholic, Republican, gay boss would fire me in an instant if he thought I was a Pagan, because of his ignorance on this subject and his prejudices. I tremble to think what a religious conservative judge might do in a custody situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.

(Not op)
I'd never renounce my beliefs but they're not for the world to know. The world would be a more peaceful place if people could keep their religion a bit less public.
I'm already weird. I'm an artist, a recluse and I prefer children over adults. I could care less about what someone thinks of my faith as far as that. I'm protecting my child. I've had very religious bosses who might have loved me and the work I did for them, but would have fired me for being a non Christian.

It's people like you, who probably believe dinosaurs were a trick from god and think adam and eve were real, that keep us afraid. Not.afraid of being perceived as weird, but of having our lives torn apart from your prejudice. It would never occur to me to shun another based on their faith if it hurt no one, but plenty of folks would love to say I worship the devil and make an unfit parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of prejudice. Not too long ago, people accused of being witches were murdered in horrible ways. Pressed to death under stones. Drowned. Hung. Never mind other prejudice/harassment from neighbors, bosses, co-workers, etc. Frankly it still does not feel safe to me to be a minority religion, especially given recent reactionary attitudes about "Christian persecution" and fearmongering regarding non-Christian religions - Not OP

Not too long ago? Really? That can't really be your answer for why you don't proudly declare your faith.

(Not op)
A. Some if us believe our spiritual beliefs can be held privately. Sharing info on an anon forum is one thing, but in my day to day life, my spirituality is none of anyone's business and I don't share it with anyone I don't know well.

B. People still lose children in divorce, etc, due to being of pagan beliefs. Getting your job back after you get fired for not being mainstream religion takes time. I'm in childcare. I could lose my job tomorrow just because I celebrated Yule instead of Christmas.

Again...I find the more you all post, the more unreasonable you become.