Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Contrary to you, I have a husband, children, and a job. I am more than happy to answer every question, but after my responsibilities are taken care of. I will be back with a few great links later.

Yes, please answer the following questions, which posters have been asking you for pages and pages.
(1) Does the Quran, or does the Quran not, require Muslims to kill those who leave the faith? You denied this, but two people have posted quotes from the Quran that suggest you're not being entirely truthful here.
(2) Does the Quran, or does the Quran not, permit Muslim soldiers to rape female captives?
(3) Does the Quran, or does the Quran not, require Muslims to try to convert non-Muslims? Again, you denied this categorically, but someone posted a quote from the Quran that suggests you're not being entirely truthful here.

There are several other things, but that's enough for now. After so many pages of obfuscation, it feels like, if you answer these questions, it will be a miracle.

PS. I'm off to talk to my husband and my younger child, my older child having gone off to college. I've finished my work for the day. But thanks for the unnecessary condescension!

Well here's your miracle, then. Your questions are not unusual. They are often the questions of either people who genuinely misunderstand Islam and want to learn more, or they are the questions of people who make it their mission to eradicate Islam by intentionally vilifying it regardless of what clarification they receive. Since with the previous link I posted of the scholar Hamza Yusuf, you accused me of shopping around to simply find a more palatable version of Islam, I'm posting this link of another scholar that is perhaps more to your liking. This is a link of a highly reputable Islamic scholar, Dr. Jamal Badawi of Halifax, Nova Scotia. It answers questions (1) and (3).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4D9aB21DwM

It would be wise for you to watch it in its entirety. Contact him directly if you need further clarification. He is very accessible.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, but you haven't answered a single question, as you had promised. You haven't provided a single figure for converts (although you do gloat about women converts).

Instead, you give give us more links to Yusuf, the oher PP's favorite theologian. (Coincidence? I'm thinking not. It really does seem like you two are one and the same.)

More flowery language. Lots of accusing people of hating Islam for even asking questions.

This is a waste of time. I'm off to work.

The facts of Islam are presented in this thread, thanks to posters who bothered to write them out.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, but you haven't answered a single question, as you had promised. You haven't provided a single figure for converts (although you do gloat about women converts).

Instead, you give give us more links to Yusuf, the oher PP's favorite theologian. (Coincidence? I'm thinking not. It really does seem like you two are one and the same.)

More flowery language. Lots of accusing people of hating Islam for even asking questions.

This is a waste of time. I'm off to work.

The facts of Islam are presented in this thread, thanks to posters who bothered to write them out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Contrary to you, I have a husband, children, and a job. I am more than happy to answer every question, but after my responsibilities are taken care of. I will be back with a few great links later.

What makes you think she doesn't? This remark doesn't reflect well on you. Arrogance. Your cloak might as well drag behind you.

Muslima wrote:OMG People, why so much nastiness towards that Muslim poster and Islam in general? Is your life so sad that you resort to trolling and making up stories online to feel better about yourself? I have "recused" myself from this discussion once I realized no true honest conversation could be had since you refuse any evidence given about what Muslims believe but choose to misquote verses as you wish, scholars that nobody ever heard of and talk about wahabism ( less than 5% of muslims are wahabis btw) as if 1.6 billion Muslims believed in the things you are saying! You are clearly not interesting in "learning" about Islam or having an intelligent discussion about it. I am just writing back to clear some of the things you keep repeating ( btw my silence shouldn't imply consent, I usually stop responding when I see no need to, I have no interest in sterile discussion). Also to the opposite of what you believe I could care less what God you pray to at the end of every day, really I have other things to worry about than trying to convert random anonymous'es on public forums. It is a bit pretentious that you think that Muslims are pissed when they try to convince you about Islam and you deny Islam's claims. Seriously? hum, no, Muslims are pissed when you lie about Islam, misquote its verses and portray whatever fallacies created by your own brain as Islam. Self-imposed ignorance is markedly offensive to others. Muslims won't be judged on whether or not you agree with them, accept Islam or nod when they tell you about their religion, you will be alone in your grave as they will be, so get off of your high horses thinking our happiness is dependent on whether you accept our belief or not!

Ignorance won't take you anywhere. I have said it before and I will say it again, the greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. You live under the "Illusion" that you have some knowledge of Islam, but clearly you have not, and that is a fact, not an opinion. The majority of these verses you cite are either taken out of context, or misunderstood due to lack of basic knowledge. Quoting Quranic verses without citing the proper context, lying about what's in the Quran ( yes lies, there is nothing in the Quran that states that the punishment for apostasy is death and you have repeated this over and over, this is just one thing that comes to mind), you rely on some cherry-picked crackpot interpretation of verses, whether you've lived with Muslims, befriended Muslims clearly has not taught you anything about Islam because you are as clueless about the religion as someone who's never even heard about the Quran, really my elementary school child has a better understanding of Islam than you do. Whether you like it or not, every verse in the Quran has to be read within the context under which it was revealed, you can't just randomly cite verses of the Quran while completely ignoring the context, that makes you look extremely ignorant.

Every book is to be dealt with on the basis of what is claims and how it is to be understood. The Qur'an is no exception to this. In principle, you can't pluck a phrase or sentence out of an essay and use it in isolation.Any discussion on Qur’anic verses would be meaningless, without a study of the surrounding context. Antagonists of Islam are guilty of such misreading and distortion of Quranic meanings because they ignore the context of the verses, either through sheer negligence or deliberate suppression. By context i mean the collective meaning derived from a group of verses. Instead of taking one verse and citing it out of context, the correct procedure is to look at the verses before and after in order to acquire a proper meaning of what The Quran is saying. Secondly, to understand certain intricate verses, the reader needs to resort to official and authentic commentaries of The Quran. I mean, honestly, there are muslims dedicating their lives to studying the interpretations of the Quran, the least you could do is listen to the consensus instead of your own amateur attempts. Quoting any text out of context is obviously dishonest, so why do you do it? The reason is that it works! When someone has an agenda and they know that if they expose it, it will not be popular, they must find alternative ways. One such way is to use for evidence, backing their argument, text taken out of context and quoted by respectable sources. This impresses the gullible, thus helping the people making those arguments pursue their agendas. It is no wonder that Islamophobes often quote translations of verses of the Quran stripped from their context, so that their listeners or readers would get the wrong impression about what the verse it about and would not be interested in Islam. Few people actually bother to check out the Quran to verify what they heard or read.

Whether you like it or not more than half of new converts to Islam are women. Why do so many women accept Islam? Didn’t they read the Quran and see that top ten list of oppression? Why did the Quran not repulse these women, and on the contrary, attracted them? why supposedly ‘emancipated’ Western women are turning towards a religion that has always been associated with the oppression of women? Are they just dumb sheep following blindly? New Muslim converts to the opposite, attribute the use of intelligent reasoning, reflection and critical thinking when explaining their journey to Islam. Such people cut through the hysteria created by some in the media to view Islam from a critical lens and following the truth thus comes naturally to them as part of this process. How else can one explain the increase in conversions with the increase of anti-Islam rhetoric?

The very fact that you are telling people to not learn Islam from Muslims but from non muslim sources shows again your ignorance. You can not learn the true essence of Islam from them any more than you can lean about Christianity from agnostics or neuroscience from a lawyer. The tragedy is not that people like you exist and are given a voice, it’s that there are many who listen and believe this nonsense. That’s why da`wa (explaining Islam) is so important. Oh btw, you also confused da'wa (explaining Islam,sharing the message) with converting. Even in the Qur'an it has been stated repeatedly that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is merely a messenger, and that his duty is merely to convey the message of Islam, he can not guide them/convert them, only Allah can guide people. So yeh, we are not asked to convert anyone, get your facts straight!

Oh and from a Christian source since you indicated all sources of Islam growth were "Muslim".....

2014 saw the publication of the 30th annual Annual Status of Global Mission in the International Bulletin of Missionary ReseaIn this, the latest edition, the researchers estimate Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world: 1.81% per year vs. 1.53% for the 20 million Sikhs and 1.29% for Christianity.

Source: http://beyond.org/islam-fastest-growing-religion-world/

But you know, when people have to hate something, that’s the beginning of the problem. To some,Islam is nothing but a code of rules and regulations.But,to those who understand,it is a perfect vision of life and whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant in our love of Islam, to you your religion, to me my religion! Peace!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Contrary to you, I have a husband, children, and a job. I am more than happy to answer every question, but after my responsibilities are taken care of. I will be back with a few great links later.

Yes, please answer the following questions, which posters have been asking you for pages and pages.
(1) Does the Quran, or does the Quran not, require Muslims to kill those who leave the faith? You denied this, but two people have posted quotes from the Quran that suggest you're not being entirely truthful here.
(2) Does the Quran, or does the Quran not, permit Muslim soldiers to rape female captives?
(3) Does the Quran, or does the Quran not, require Muslims to try to convert non-Muslims? Again, you denied this categorically, but someone posted a quote from the Quran that suggests you're not being entirely truthful here.

There are several other things, but that's enough for now. After so many pages of obfuscation, it feels like, if you answer these questions, it will be a miracle.

PS. I'm off to talk to my husband and my younger child, my older child having gone off to college. I've finished my work for the day. But thanks for the unnecessary condescension!

2014 saw the publication of the 30th annual Annual Status of Global Mission in the International Bulletin of Missionary ReseaIn this, the latest edition, the researchers estimate Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world: 1.81% per year vs. 1.53% for the 20 million Sikhs and 1.29% for Christianity.

Anonymous wrote:Aaaahhh, so you pointed out that many Muslims are African American and from ghettos to provide valuable demographic and marketing information in case DCUMers wish to market products to them? People are chuckling right now, particularly the African Americans and those from ghettos. I never mentioned the race or economic status of converts because it's irrelevant. No matter how dark their complexion or fat their wallets, they still count as converts. In fact, I actually can not confirm or deny your assertion that most converts are African American or from ghettos as it was never importnat enough a factor for me, as a Muslim, to research or learn about.

No, silly. I will explain. Islam is the product. Converts are the customers. "Who is buying what we're selling?" - is a question reasonably asked by any product sponsor. In that context, the information on who are the converts and where they are hailing from is an essential piece of information. The spread of Islam in prisons and ghettos is a part of your religion's history in this country. There are many other parts. This one exists as well. It doesn't look good for you to deny that, or to say that it's irrelevant, because if most of Muslim converts were MIT graduates, we'd hear about it non-stop.

You don't need to confirm or deny it, Pew Center has done it for you.

Realistic criticism is welcome. Calling our beloved prophet a pedophile is not a realistic criticism. It's an insult. And the accusation that our prophet was a pedophile was flung early on in this thread by some. Not a good way to begin a sober discourse if people's intent is simply to understand Islamic principles, is it?

I never called your prophet a pedophile; his marital history is not a concern to me. Both Aisha and her family benefited from that marriage so if they are happy, who am I to say they shouldn't be? Aisha was Abu Bakr's daughter. Abu Bakr was one of the prophet's nearest companions and one of the rulers who came after him. Intermarriages in powerful families are common enough, and so was that marriage. I think of this as the next president offering his daughter to the current president. Common.

Was it you that also said Islam commands death for apostasy? If so, once again, you are wrong because you resort heavily on your cliff notes version of the Sharia and insist on doing so, despite my telling you that Sharia is man made law, not God's law. Only the Quran is God's law. Thus, rely on the Quran only and rely on reputable scholarly work to interpret it if you are confused about anything. Living with three Muslims has obviously not been enough to help clarify your misunderstanding about Islam. Why did you not contact a reutable scholar or Imam to better understand Islam then? Why get on DCUM and repeat the false and vile accusations about Islam?

Since it appears you may not have sought authoritative sources to clarify your misunderstanding about Islam, I will provide it. Hamza Yusuf is a very reputable Islamic scholar in the US. He's an American convert. Btw, he's caucasian and from a well established, wealthy Californian family…just providing this information for the DCUM marketers out there. lol lol

Hamza Yusuf may be accessible via a phone call. If you are truly interested in clarifying your misunderstanding you would call him.


This is the real part of your comment that needs to be addressed. You explained your theological position clearly. You are a Quranist, the follower of the Quran-only movement that discounts all other sources except the Quran. That's a legitimate position. You don't see Shariah as a valid source of information about Islam's views on life. That's OK. (You aren't yearning to become the next Muhammad Asad, are you? He didn't really end well, you know.)

What is not OK is your position that anyone who looks, and finds Shariah and OTHER interpretations of Islam that are less pretty than what Zaitouna's peacenik crowd preaches must be doing it from cliff's notes. My dear, you are not the first person in the world to crack open the Quran. You are not the first person to think about it. And you aren't the first person to write about it. You don't have a secret eye. The study of Islam did not begin with Hamza Yusuf, he is simply the guy you like best. Whether you like it or not, there exists a body of Islamic theological law - well yes, that's Shariah! - and scholarship underlying it that was built since Islam came on the scene. You think Shariah's illegitimate; that's OK. But for every one of you, there are millions of people, including people in turbans, who believe it is divine - are they all ignorant? Or learning from cliff's notes? (Also, I think it's cute that you get all frothy with "despite ME TELLING YOU Shariah is manmade". Who are you exactly? Why does your position on Shariah - which is markedly different from the position of the Islamic establishment - matters or is in any way authoritative?)

All these people read the Quran too. They came to conclusions that are different from you. You aren't inventing this thing from scratch. Tons and tons of books have been written on the subject; multiple schools of thoughts exist, and they have very definite position on plural marriage, on slavery, on apostasy, on treatment of polytheists that didn't come from Sheikh Google. There's Ibn Taymiyya. There's the whole Al Azhar crowd. There is a Bin Baz crowd. There's a bunch of universities named after King something. There's the mufti brigade behind islamqa.com. There's the Muhammad Abdelwahhab cooperative. There's Yusuf Qaradawi, god bless his heart. There is, somewhere, a group of turbans servicing ISIS and handing out rulings that what they do is OK. I get that you disagree with them. I get that you think they are manmade, reactionary, backwards, whatever. (I think the whole thing is manmade). But one thing that you cannot say about them is that they learned Islam from cliff's notes. They read the same Quran you do. They read it differently from you. You can disagree with their conclusions, that's your right. What you cannot do is say they aren't learned people. They are all Islamic scholars, to a man. And just like you refer people to Hamza Yusuf, I can refer people to the Bin Baz folks on islamqa.com - aren't they learned? aren't they reputable? aren't they authoritative? Isn't Qardawi? You're shopping for sources, which is perfectly fine, you found the one you like. But don't act like every OTHER source comes from ignorance because they can take up Hamza Yusuf degree by degree, and come out on top.

John Quincy Adams in 1830 wrote:
The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Contrary to you, I have a husband, children, and a job. I am more than happy to answer every question, but after my responsibilities are taken care of. I will be back with a few great links later.

What makes you think she doesn't? This remark doesn't reflect well on you. Arrogance. Your cloak might as well drag behind you.

Worse, we're never going to see those answers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Contrary to you, I have a husband, children, and a job. I am more than happy to answer every question, but after my responsibilities are taken care of. I will be back with a few great links later.

What makes you think she doesn't? This remark doesn't reflect well on you. Arrogance. Your cloak might as well drag behind you.

Anonymous wrote:
Contrary to you, I have a husband, children, and a job. I am more than happy to answer every question, but after my responsibilities are taken care of. I will be back with a few great links later.