Anonymous
07/16/2014 16:18
Subject: Re:MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I know that MoCo is a huge school district and not a town. The fact remains, however, that MoCo makes the ongoing choice to segregate people by housing prices. It is a choice not to locate affordable housing in e.g. Bethesda, Potomac, Chevy Chase. In making that choice, MoCo also chooses the achievement gap.
You're the type of fool that would cut off your nose to spite your face. The revenues that fund schools come from property taxes. The county is declining in revenue not growing- which is very bad. The close in areas don't see it but compared to Howard, Frederick, and VA the north and west of Montgomery County is stagnating, no appreciation and no increased revenues while the east is dropping fast.
You will not close the achievement gap by adding a few low income housing units to White Flint but its a good sound bite for the stupid. You will loe revenues that fund the schools.
Why do you think property taxes would decline if housing were mixed? Do you think that mixing socioeconomic groups in the same neighborhood would have a negative impact on housing values? This is not the case in the town I referred to above. On the contrary, property values are stable and rising. Housing has always been mixed. It is just a given.
I didn't say anything about "a few low income housing units to White Flint." I'm talking about massive policy overhaul.
Segregated housing is not a default. It is not the case everywhere. It is a choice.
Then if your town is truly Eden, give up the name. People segregate by race, culture and SES. So even if Josephine is living next to Gina, if Gina is a millionaire and Josephine is relying on her government check, it's unlikely they will be bonding anytime soon.
Not my town (because I'm not going to out myself), but e.g. Arlington, MA is a town with a similar profile:
Public housing:
http://arlingtonhousing.org/residents_family.php
Affordable housing:
http://housingcorparlington.org/affordable-apartment-program/capitol-square-apartments/
In the same town:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/83-Cutter-Hill-Rd_Arlington_MA_02474_M34028-94614?row=2
And in-between, economically:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/15-Hazel-Ter_Arlington_MA_02474_M41693-54626?row=3
Kids from all of these situations attend the SAME schools.
It's not Eden, but it's not segregated either.
So funny. I know someone who grew up in Arlington, MA during the 1970s. they ended up sending one kid to private school and in the end they moved to a more expensive neighborhood to get better schools. The school in the better neighborhood was much, much better. I know this was a long time ago and perhaps the town has changed since then but...
Anonymous
07/16/2014 16:15
Subject: Re:MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:There was a drive-by shooting in Silver Spring last night, not all that far from Sligo Middle School. In front of an apartment complex. I think it's this sort of thing that gets people up in arms and not how it will affect the composition of the student body.
So if we make policy changes to enable low- and middle-income families to move into housing in e.g. Bethesda, there will be drive-by shootings there?
Anonymous
07/16/2014 16:09
Subject: Re:MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:There was a drive-by shooting in Silver Spring last night, not all that far from Sligo Middle School. In front of an apartment complex. I think it's this sort of thing that gets people up in arms and not how it will affect the composition of the student body.
But what sort of thing? That poor people = drive-by shootings? That apartment complexes = drive-by shootings? That affordable housing = apartment complex? That affordable housing = drive-by shootings? I think that given their druthers, almost everybody would like to live in a neighborhood that doesn't have drive-by shootings.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 16:06
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
^^I mean that I'm the PP at 15:45.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 16:06
Subject: Re:MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
There was a drive-by shooting in Silver Spring last night, not all that far from Sligo Middle School. In front of an apartment complex. I think it's this sort of thing that gets people up in arms and not how it will affect the composition of the student body.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 16:06
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Given PP at 15:45 - where in the world are people making less than $35K supposed to live in Western MoCo if they aren't even part of the programs the county is using to address housing needs then?
15:45 -- I don't know what programs Montgomery County has for housing the very poor. I think that the main point is that "affordable housing" in Montgomery County doesn't actually mean "housing for the very poor". But many people assume that it does. (Either that, or they think of households with incomes below $128,400 as very poor.)
For reference, the maximum income for 2014-2015 for reduced meals is $51,643 for a household of 5. So it is definitely possible for a household with children on FARMS to be income-eligible for the MPDU program.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 15:59
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Given PP at 15:45 - where in the world are people making less than $35K supposed to live in Western MoCo if they aren't even part of the programs the county is using to address housing needs then?
Anonymous
07/16/2014 15:45
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why will affordable housing in wealthy areas make dcc or NEC better? It'll just make the richer areas worse. What is the point? I'd rather focus efforts on serving middle class kids needs in these zones (in the form of a consortium or otherwise) through tracking more magnet better teacher etc. or just showing middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape. Sure you can jiggle to boundaries a bit but you'll just punish families who chose to stay and make a go in SS
How will affordable housing in e.g. Bethesda and Potomac make those areas "worse"?
Because "affordable housing" means "the projects", and Bethesda and Potomac will turn into Cabrini-Green. Everybody knows that!
In fact, in Montgomery County, "affordable housing" is based on the HUD Area Median Household Income (AMI), which for 2014 is $107,000. One of the county's affordable housing programs is workforce housing, which is housing affordable to households with up to 120% of the AMI ($128,400 in 2014). Another of the county's affordable housing programs is Moderately Priced Dwelling Units (MPDUs), for which the minimum household income is $35,000, and the maximum household income this year ranges from $52,500 for a household of 1 to $81,000 to a household of 5.
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DHCA/housing/singlefamily/mpdu/programsales.html#Are you Eligible?
Anonymous
07/16/2014 15:14
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:"Why will affordable housing in wealthy areas make dcc or NEC better? It'll just make the richer areas worse. What is the point? I'd rather focus efforts on serving middle class kids needs in these zones (in the form of a consortium or otherwise) through tracking more magnet better teacher etc. or just showing middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape. Sure you can jiggle to boundaries a bit but you'll just punish families who chose to stay and make a go in SS"
- says the Bethesda or CC resident.
it's not either or. Affordable housing needs to go somewhere; it's not a snapshot in time that won't change. so the question is where should it go. The reality is that the county policies have overly concentrated it to date in primarily Eastern MoCo. They can't keep pouring most of it in the same spot and expect that area to improve. You need to spread it out better which at this point means a focus needs to go on putting more in areas that are 90% wealthy.
But in addition (not instead) you also need to do as you suggest PP and '[show] middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape". The best way to do this is by letting those kids group into classes on level w/ their abilities, but teh county is not doing that currently. Continuing to refuse to do so will only drive more middle class famlies from the DCC/NEC to either move or use private - both of which are bad for the remaining kids in those areas' schools.
Excellent summary.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 15:13
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In small places where everyone can go to one or two high schools..not comparable to large county based systems.
You are missing the point, which is: Socioeconomic residential integration is achievable.
Why would you believe that when MoCo's recent history shows the opposite. You basically have the higher-income families hanging on to a few areas, a bunch of older homeowners without kids aging in place in areas with poor schools, and a county government more interested in abstract social policy than shoring up the tax base? If the goal is to turn both Whitman and Kennedy into replicas of Rockville, people might as well move to DC and just take their chances with Wilson.
This post is not responsive to the previous one. The county has not worked at socioeconomic residential integration in any substantial way. Current policies keep social classes (and races as well) highly segregated.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 15:11
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Why will affordable housing in wealthy areas make dcc or NEC better? It'll just make the richer areas worse. What is the point? I'd rather focus efforts on serving middle class kids needs in these zones (in the form of a consortium or otherwise) through tracking more magnet better teacher etc. or just showing middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape. Sure you can jiggle to boundaries a bit but you'll just punish families who chose to stay and make a go in SS
How will affordable housing in e.g. Bethesda and Potomac make those areas "worse"?
Anonymous
07/16/2014 14:57
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
"Why will affordable housing in wealthy areas make dcc or NEC better? It'll just make the richer areas worse. What is the point? I'd rather focus efforts on serving middle class kids needs in these zones (in the form of a consortium or otherwise) through tracking more magnet better teacher etc. or just showing middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape. Sure you can jiggle to boundaries a bit but you'll just punish families who chose to stay and make a go in SS"
- says the Bethesda or CC resident.
it's not either or. Affordable housing needs to go somewhere; it's not a snapshot in time that won't change. so the question is where should it go. The reality is that the county policies have overly concentrated it to date in primarily Eastern MoCo. They can't keep pouring most of it in the same spot and expect that area to improve. You need to spread it out better which at this point means a focus needs to go on putting more in areas that are 90% wealthy.
But in addition (not instead) you also need to do as you suggest PP and '[show] middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape". The best way to do this is by letting those kids group into classes on level w/ their abilities, but teh county is not doing that currently. Continuing to refuse to do so will only drive more middle class famlies from the DCC/NEC to either move or use private - both of which are bad for the remaining kids in those areas' schools.
- says the Bethesda or CC resident.
it's not either or. Affordable housing needs to go somewhere; it's not a snapshot in time that won't change. so the question is where should it go. The reality is that the county policies have overly concentrated it to date in primarily Eastern MoCo. They can't keep pouring most of it in the same spot and expect that area to improve. You need to spread it out better which at this point means a focus needs to go on putting more in areas that are 90% wealthy.
But in addition (not instead) you also need to do as you suggest PP and '[show] middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape". The best way to do this is by letting those kids group into classes on level w/ their abilities, but teh county is not doing that currently. Continuing to refuse to do so will only drive more middle class famlies from the DCC/NEC to either move or use private - both of which are bad for the remaining kids in those areas' schools.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 14:53
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:In small places where everyone can go to one or two high schools..not comparable to large county based systems.
You are missing the point, which is: Socioeconomic residential integration is achievable.
Why would you believe that when MoCo's recent history shows the opposite. You basically have the higher-income families hanging on to a few areas, a bunch of older homeowners without kids aging in place in areas with poor schools, and a county government more interested in abstract social policy than shoring up the tax base? If the goal is to turn both Whitman and Kennedy into replicas of Rockville, people might as well move to DC and just take their chances with Wilson.
Montgomery County's recent history of policies promoting socioeconomic residential integration shows that socioeconomic residential integration is not achievable? Please explain, referring to specific county policies on housing.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 14:52
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Why will affordable housing in wealthy areas make dcc or NEC better? It'll just make the richer areas worse. What is the point? I'd rather focus efforts on serving middle class kids needs in these zones (in the form of a consortium or otherwise) through tracking more magnet better teacher etc. or just showing middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape. Sure you can jiggle to boundaries a bit but you'll just punish families who chose to stay and make a go in SS
Because the problem is the concentration of poverty in certain parts of the county. If more parts of the county were affordable, poverty would be less concentrated. And this would benefit not just the poor people, but the county as a whole.
Anonymous
07/16/2014 14:50
Subject: MCPS and Starr will probably need to change boundaries
Anonymous wrote:Why will affordable housing in wealthy areas make dcc or NEC better? It'll just make the richer areas worse. What is the point? I'd rather focus efforts on serving middle class kids needs in these zones (in the form of a consortium or otherwise) through tracking more magnet better teacher etc. or just showing middle class families that they are also an important part of the dcc/NEC landscape. Sure you can jiggle to boundaries a bit but you'll just punish families who chose to stay and make a go in SS
Exactly. Build on the small successes at places like Einstein.