Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband makes $160k and I stay at home with two small kids. These threads always surprise me because at $160k we do pretty darn good! Rent a townhouse for $2300/month, aggressively paying off both cars so we spend $1000/month on that, $131/month insurance for both cars. $280/month for preschool, around $200/month for power and gas, $400 for cable/internet/cell phones. We have a house in another state but the mortgage is covered by a renter so we don't make money on that but we aren't in the red either (this year at least). In a normal 2 paycheck month we net around $8500 and very very rarely do we feel pinched unless a few major expenses come up at once (property taxes, new tires for cars, medical bills, things like that). I mean we aren't wealthy by any means but I feel we do much better than "survive."

You don't own, you don't save for college for the kids, and what are you doing for yourself as a SAHM for retirement? Households with income totalling less than $200K, with kids, are almost always way short on house equity, retirement and college savings.

Short by what standard? Putting away enough for a public university, putting away 10% of HHI for retirement - is that short? I think you're imagining a family of 200k income living like they make 300 or 400k, which sure plenty of families do, and they make up the difference by not putting away for retirement or college, but the point I've been trying to make on this thread is you don't have to live like that and your standard of living doesn't necessarily have to take a big hit to live more modestly. Living just outside the district and sending your kid to childcare there can easily save you 2k a month that you then can put towards the savings you claim people are short on.

Putting away 10% of HHI for retirement gets you to retire on what percentage of your HHI at what age, and is that sufficient, or will you be relying on Social Security?

My retirement package alone, not counting DH's and excluding Social Security, will have me at 150% of what I currently make. I've been contributing to my retirement account since I was an intern. This is assuming I retire at 62. I could go earlier but we'll see where we are in life when I reach the earliest eligible age. You're probably still inclined to say I'm short because you seem to hold it as a matter of faith that people making 200k can't live financially responsible lives, but 150% of what I make will be plenty for us. We lived on a fraction of that two years ago.

If your current salary is $80K that means that by age 62 your own retirement fund will be at $3M in order to withdraw 4% per year; $120K per year (150% of current salary). That's just from contributing 10% of salary throughout your career? That's excellent

It includes my pension. $3M would be awesome but no, I'm not achieving that with 10%.

Oh wait, I didn't account for the fact that my salary will increase! If I were stuck at my current salary from now til 62, I'd have just under 2M in the retirement account. With the salary increases I expect and that I should be eligible for, I'll land somewhere under $3M but over 2.5.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:98th percent is Asian f, good luck

Huh?

Haha, so true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why haven't you sold and bought here to hedge housing price divergence?

Kudos to your husband for 160K at 29. What industry?

I'm going to go out in an incredibly tiny limb here and guess he's a first year associate at a large law firm.

Oh, ok. My condolences.

That wasn't me. I clarified he is not in law.

In came back to the DC area in 2008 after working abroad for 5 years. My salary then was $65,000. My DW and I bought a house near DTSS for $228,000. We could have sold it at the peak of the bubble for about $600K.

From 2002 - 2003, we were single income as my DW went to grad school. Our mortgage payment was $1500/mo. In 2004, we went back overseas for four years (Korea). During this time, and this is the only time in our 17 years of marriage, we were dual income. We rented out our SS house for $1600/mo. We saved enough money while overseas for a down payment on another house. So, we bought a second home as a primary residence and continue to rent out the SS house.
We currently have a net work of $500K, $100K iinvested and available for college and $300K in my TSP.

I make approximately $140K as a Fed. DW is SAHM. We seem to be doing OK. We dont' take extravagant vacations. We drive old cars. DD is in public schools in FFX and we are happy with them. So, it is completely doable depending on your lifestyle choices!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why haven't you sold and bought here to hedge housing price divergence?

Kudos to your husband for 160K at 29. What industry?

I'm going to go out in an incredibly tiny limb here and guess he's a first year associate at a large law firm.

Oh, ok. My condolences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just ridiculous. Life at/under 200k is very good in the dc area. Yours may not be, but that is down to your choices. Buy what you can afford (or less), if you can't afford what you want then save until you can and make it a priority. Plan to live on one salary (if you are dual earners). Yes, cost of living is higher in dc than many other places, but there are also more jobs and higher paying jobs here than out other places. If you can't be happy with what you can afford and you are unable to delay gratification you will be unhappy at any income level.

I don't know what parents made, but given that I walked to school early so my friends didn't see me in the free/reduced lunch ticket line, I am guessing it wasn't much. I worked three jobs to earn the money for ivf and for a down payment when my primary job was under 60k, continued until our HHI was close to 200. Did I enjoy working nights and weekends? No, but more than I liked the FARMS line. And after having a NW at 25 of -27k in 2005 we have a NW of 750, a nice 2000sqft home in a close suburb with great schools. Would be higher if we didn't have to pay for ivf and a nanny, but we are fortunate to live in an area where we can make this kind of money and have access to the highest level of medical care and several options.

Very very well said. We did exactly that, our HHI is 200k, DWs is 60k. We bought a place such that should I be out of work we would (barely) be able to make it on DWs salary alone withing having to tap into savings. This would also entail that we would take DS out of daycare (and save $1k/month) and I'd be taking care of him at home. (DD is ES). Also, we kept our expenses in check by "pretending" that we're still earning $100k (HHI). As a result, we're on track to pay down our $500k (at the time of purchase) mortgage within 5 years, current loan balance is $330k after 20 months of ownership. All excess savings are channeled into the mortgage. Don't have any expenses related to nannies/cleaners.

Sorry, meant "DD is in ES" (elementary school)

Anonymous wrote:This is just ridiculous. Life at/under 200k is very good in the dc area. Yours may not be, but that is down to your choices. Buy what you can afford (or less), if you can't afford what you want then save until you can and make it a priority. Plan to live on one salary (if you are dual earners). Yes, cost of living is higher in dc than many other places, but there are also more jobs and higher paying jobs here than out other places. If you can't be happy with what you can afford and you are unable to delay gratification you will be unhappy at any income level.

I don't know what parents made, but given that I walked to school early so my friends didn't see me in the free/reduced lunch ticket line, I am guessing it wasn't much. I worked three jobs to earn the money for ivf and for a down payment when my primary job was under 60k, continued until our HHI was close to 200. Did I enjoy working nights and weekends? No, but more than I liked the FARMS line. And after having a NW at 25 of -27k in 2005 we have a NW of 750, a nice 2000sqft home in a close suburb with great schools. Would be higher if we didn't have to pay for ivf and a nanny, but we are fortunate to live in an area where we can make this kind of money and have access to the highest level of medical care and several options.

Very very well said. We did exactly that, our HHI is 200k, DWs is 60k. We bought a place such that should I be out of work we would (barely) be able to make it on DWs salary alone withing having to tap into savings. This would also entail that we would take DS out of daycare (and save $1k/month) and I'd be taking care of him at home. (DD is ES). Also, we kept our expenses in check by "pretending" that we're still earning $100k (HHI). As a result, we're on track to pay down our $500k (at the time of purchase) mortgage within 5 years, current loan balance is $330k after 20 months of ownership. All excess savings are channeled into the mortgage. Don't have any expenses related to nannies/cleaners.

Anonymous wrote:98th percent is Asian f, good luck

Huh?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why haven't you sold and bought here to hedge housing price divergence?

Kudos to your husband for 160K at 29. What industry?

I'm going to go out in an incredibly tiny limb here and guess he's a first year associate at a large law firm.

The housing market in that state (and that area of the state in particular) is still depressed. We would make no money on the sale. So we rent it out to cover the mortgage until the market bounces back a little. It's getting there but not quite. When it's a better time to sell and when we are 2 income again instead of just one income, we will buy here.

I am 29 but my husband is a bit older than I am and is not in law.

98th percent is Asian f, good luck

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live near downtown SS and have not compromised on school quality. Our schools are great, not risky (as you put it).

If you insist on schools serving only high SES populations the you and only you are to blame for your money woes.

Blair high school? That is quite good, at least magnet portion. MoCo and fairfax do well even in lower SES schools but as ESOL demands grow and the counties cut their school budgets I think you are taking more risk than you realize. Unless you stay home and can navigate your child through the academic shoals.

Downtown SS is quite nice but largely a product of housing bubble; walk one block over (we went to mininut so toured the area around) and there is a wide divide there. It is not as likely to be a stable low crime neighborhood unlike more traditional close in suburbs. It can go either way, you are gambling; it could pay off if SS keeps developing, definitely, look at that awesome library. But essentially 200k allow you to be urban pioneers.

You don't know what you are talking about. I am a lawyer and my DH a college professor, and we are surrounded by people of similar backgrounds and educational levels. Our housing values have remained stable throughout the downturn and risen somewhat as well. Our kids (15 and 12yo) and our friends' kids are doing great, performing well and [b]heading to excellent colleges and universities. [/b]
I guess if you are spending your money on more expensive neighborhoods to avoid what you believe is a "risk" (attending school with people of color), then you feel compelled to justify that choice by denigrating the road not taken.

How could you possibly know where they are going to college?

Our friends' kids are, in fact, in college now. Off the top of my head, I know Silver Spring kids at Swarthmore, Haverford, Williams, Harvard, University of Vermont, U. of Maryland.

My own kid just got PSAT scores back and scored in the 98th and 99th percentiles across the board, so given that and his good grades, I think he will be admitted to good schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live near downtown SS and have not compromised on school quality. Our schools are great, not risky (as you put it).

If you insist on schools serving only high SES populations the you and only you are to blame for your money woes.

Blair high school? That is quite good, at least magnet portion. MoCo and fairfax do well even in lower SES schools but as ESOL demands grow and the counties cut their school budgets I think you are taking more risk than you realize. Unless you stay home and can navigate your child through the academic shoals.

Downtown SS is quite nice but largely a product of housing bubble; walk one block over (we went to mininut so toured the area around) and there is a wide divide there. It is not as likely to be a stable low crime neighborhood unlike more traditional close in suburbs. It can go either way, you are gambling; it could pay off if SS keeps developing, definitely, look at that awesome library. But essentially 200k allow you to be urban pioneers.

You don't know what you are talking about. I am a lawyer and my DH a college professor, and we are surrounded by people of similar backgrounds and educational levels. Our housing values have remained stable throughout the downturn and risen somewhat as well. Our kids (15 and 12yo) and our friends' kids are doing great, performing well and heading to excellent colleges and universities.
I guess if you are spending your money on more expensive neighborhoods to avoid what you believe is a "risk" (attending school with people of color), then you feel compelled to justify that choice by denigrating the road not taken.

How could you possibly know where they are going to college?

Not PP, but you don't know where your friends' kids go to college?

p.s. Reading is fundamental.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been multiple people in very different phases of life (50+, 30s, single moms, sahm, renters) who have lived very comfortable lives in the area on 200k and far less. There has been an excuse thrown out for each how those don't apply - you bought before the real estate boom, you had a big down payment, you have one high wage earner.

The simple fact is that it can be done and in a variety of ways. YOU might not be able to do it, but it is not because it is not possible, but because you make different choices or have expectations/entitlements that are out of line with your income.

The simple truth is that if you are broke at 200k you would probably be broke at 300 or 400k. 100/150/200 are plenty to live comfortably, raise children, live close in, and save for a great retirement. What do they have in common? Live below their means in some ways, save aggressively, prioritize their wants and needs, and realize how fortunate they are to make so much money.

There will always be excuses.

I think people who make statements like these have no idea or experience with starting a family in this area today. That would've been me saying the same thing before I had kids. Once kids came along, childcare is a second mortgage, diapers, wipes, etc. I haven't gotten a haircut in over a year, manicure over 4 years ago, new clothes bought 2 years ago because of my growing belly... 200k is a lot less after taxes etc. its enough to cover childcare, mortgage, food, utilities, insurances, etc but its far from luxurious living. We still need to budget carefully.

Again, excuses. We have two kids. Spent 70k on ivf trying to start our family, now nanny costs due to prematurity (good deal more than our mortgage). We live in a great school district in a nice neighborhood (vienna). We saved aggressively even when under 100k. It's not always easy, but far from impossible.

Wow, that's so much to go through. Good luck and Godspeed for the family.

Thank you, we are one of the lucky ones. At least for housing, services, and consumer goods you know what you are getting when you pay for something. The hardest thing about ivf was paying without knowing if you would get anything out of it while most everyone else was able to do it for free. On the plus side it made it easier to make financial decisions and to work multiple jobs. We both wanted a child badly, so when we had to make decisions between buying something we didn't truly need and saving for ivf and a home it was never a hard decision. We are so fortunate to have great REs here, many options, terrific local NICUs, and experts and services for SN kids - and the income to take advantage of them. Had we not been in this area our story a have been drastically different.

Anonymous wrote:

Why haven't you sold and bought here to hedge housing price divergence?

Kudos to your husband for 160K at 29. What industry?

I'm going to go out in an incredibly tiny limb here and guess he's a first year associate at a large law firm.

This is just ridiculous. Life at/under 200k is very good in the dc area. Yours may not be, but that is down to your choices. Buy what you can afford (or less), if you can't afford what you want then save until you can and make it a priority. Plan to live on one salary (if you are dual earners). Yes, cost of living is higher in dc than many other places, but there are also more jobs and higher paying jobs here than out other places. If you can't be happy with what you can afford and you are unable to delay gratification you will be unhappy at any income level.

I don't know what parents made, but given that I walked to school early so my friends didn't see me in the free/reduced lunch ticket line, I am guessing it wasn't much. I worked three jobs to earn the money for ivf and for a down payment when my primary job was under 60k, continued until our HHI was close to 200. Did I enjoy working nights and weekends? No, but more than I liked the FARMS line. And after having a NW at 25 of -27k in 2005 we have a NW of 750, a nice 2000sqft home in a close suburb with great schools. Would be higher if we didn't have to pay for ivf and a nanny, but we are fortunate to live in an area where we can make this kind of money and have access to the highest level of medical care and several options.