Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Pick up a book or go on the internet about Native Americans and how they define their heritage and those who are considered part of the Indian nation.

Nobody's going to do your homework for you. Didn't you even learn that in school?

PP again. After reading such unsubstantiated comments about Native Americans (or lack of knowledge from posters), it is obvious that not only are you not even interested in the history but you don't give a damn and will make up your own conclusions.

I am done. And America wonders why non-European countries despise us and question are motives. It's because we don't give a flying damn about anybody else as evidenced by not only the lack of knowledge but the refusal to even pick up a damn book!

Not to worry. I am done with this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Pick up a book or go on the internet about Native Americans and how they define their heritage and those who are considered part of the Indian nation.

Nobody's going to do your homework for you. Didn't you even learn that in school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

So Veronica herself, or people of Native American descent don't get to decide for themselves about their personal level of belonging? Seriously? Can you give me an exact citation for themselves?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

Agreed. That's why the Bureau of Indian Affairs was created by the government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

I can't even comment as you apparently haven't even picked up a history book or attempted to even understand why 'she's one of them'. This is always the problem...people who go on without obtaining facts to argue their point. Please pick up a history book, any history book, on Native Americans and then debate your point. But only those who, like yourself, have not bothered to even read Cherokee or Native American laws or treaties with the American government will always go by what they "think" is right, not fact.

Native Americans are more than just a figurehead for a football team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Identity is who she is ethnically. Definition of her intellectually and emotionally is something else and has nothing to do with her ethnicity.

It doesn't matter - that's still Veronica's choice how to define herself when she's older. Not her Mr. Brown, not the Cherokee Nation, not her Hispanic bio mom, and not the Capobianco's.

The government will define her by the little box that she will need to check off defining who she is.

You don't need to check off one box, ever. As someone who's also multi-racial, I don't remember the last time I was required to pick a box.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

I'm not a white American, though I am mixed/biracial. My own search about my backgrounds is my own - not my relatives from either side, not my parents, not some monolithic ethnic group (since that doesn't exist). I don't necessarily think that seeking out an identity is unimportant, but however anyone defines themselves isn't irrelevant - it's on an individual to decide for themselves. If Veronica grows up to decide that it's irrelevant, so be it. Lots of people of various heritages do. If she decides to embrace her minute fraction of Native American background, so be it. It would her decision alone. If she decides to embrace her Hispanic heritage, it's again her decision alone. If she embraces all or none of her multiple backgrounds, or some and not others, or changes her mind at different times in her life, that's Veronica's choice alone.

I feel like there's some weird ownership/property thing going on - the Cherokee Nation doesn't get to "claim" Veronica, or decide for her, that she's one of them. That's her decision to make when she's older.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Identity is who she is ethnically. Definition of her intellectually and emotionally is something else and has nothing to do with her ethnicity.

It doesn't matter - that's still Veronica's choice how to define herself when she's older. Not her Mr. Brown, not the Cherokee Nation, not her Hispanic bio mom, and not the Capobianco's.

The government will define her by the little box that she will need to check off defining who she is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Tell that to people who are Jewish. You may have little attachment to your heritage (most white Americans don't) but there are other nationalities where this is who they are...an identifier if you will. You may throw it around that it's meaningless but remember that many people (especially non-whites) take pride in their identities and refuse to and will not concur with you that someone's heritage is irrelevant/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Identity is who she is ethnically. Definition of her intellectually and emotionally is something else and has nothing to do with her ethnicity.

It doesn't matter - that's still Veronica's choice how to define herself when she's older. Not her Mr. Brown, not the Cherokee Nation, not her Hispanic bio mom, and not the Capobianco's.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

Identity is who she is ethnically. Definition of her intellectually and emotionally is something else and has nothing to do with her ethnicity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope this doesnt end up like wounded knee.

South Carolina would have no problem sending in the troops to slaughter those Native Americans to get to that little girl. How sad!

Oh for fuck's sake you're being ridiculous. I've been on the fence about this, but it's clear your repeated flippant and exaggerated posts don't indicate that you have a rational, reasonable perspective on this case.

So, the South Carolina laws supercede federal laws in place to protect Native American rights? Reasonable perspective is because they are white and bought and paid for this child using a dubious agency that they are right?

Yeah, for fuck's safe get off your pedestal. Native Americans have rights and if Brown had serious money, high end lawyers, and less melanin, none of this would be happening whether you like it or not.

Of course Native Americans have rights, but that doesn't mean you can suddenly decide you want to be a dad to stick it to your ex-girlfriend, just to "win" against her, after willingly signing away your parental rights. It doesn't mean you can suddenly decide when you want to be involved in your child. It doesn't mean you can be conditional when you want to be a parent.

There are valid and real cases where Native Americans are seriously and honestly disenfranchised, but this isn't one of them. Signing away your parental rights is a conscious choice, and please don't pretend like Brown was somehow duped by his Hispanic girlfriend. He changed his mind. That's all that happened. He knew precisely what he was doing. Just because he wants to "win" against his ex-girlfriend, that doesn't suddenly make him a dad.

A voice of sanity! Thank you. Couldn't make it through all 17 pages of nonsense, but am so relieved to find one sane perspective.

When you give up your parental rights, you are doing just that - giving up your parental rights. Veronica's biological parents decided to put her up for adoption to a willing and loving adoptive family. To liken this to baby stealing / selling and hysterically bemoan this child's "lost heritage" is not only an affront to actual facts (which apparently most posters aren't concerned with) but dismisses any responsibility that the biological parents had in this instance.

Anonymous wrote:The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Isn't her bio dad something like 1/32 Cherokee? Honestly, at some point, it's little ridiculous the degree to which someone's heritage is suddenly relevant. I hope Veronica finds an identity that is hers to seek out, hers to define, and nobody else's to decide for her.

The whole situation is so sad for Veronica, and there is no doubt she will eventually return to the adoptive family. Equally upsetting is there is no doubt that the adoptive family will strip this little girl of both her true heritages. Hopefully, as she gets older she will diligently seek out who she is ethnically. That is something the adoptive family CANNOT take from her no matter how anyone tries to paint her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope this doesnt end up like wounded knee.

South Carolina would have no problem sending in the troops to slaughter those Native Americans to get to that little girl. How sad!

Oh for fuck's sake you're being ridiculous. I've been on the fence about this, but it's clear your repeated flippant and exaggerated posts don't indicate that you have a rational, reasonable perspective on this case.

So, the South Carolina laws supercede federal laws in place to protect Native American rights? Reasonable perspective is because they are white and bought and paid for this child using a dubious agency that they are right?

Yeah, for fuck's safe get off your pedestal. Native Americans have rights and if Brown had serious money, high end lawyers, and less melanin, none of this would be happening whether you like it or not.

Of course Native Americans have rights, but that doesn't mean you can suddenly decide you want to be a dad to stick it to your ex-girlfriend, just to "win" against her, after willingly signing away your parental rights. It doesn't mean you can suddenly decide when you want to be involved in your child. It doesn't mean you can be conditional when you want to be a parent.

There are valid and real cases where Native Americans are seriously and honestly disenfranchised, but this isn't one of them. Signing away your parental rights is a conscious choice, and please don't pretend like Brown was somehow duped by his Hispanic girlfriend. He changed his mind. That's all that happened. He knew precisely what he was doing. Just because he wants to "win" against his ex-girlfriend, that doesn't suddenly make him a dad.