Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People either do one of the following things.

1) Combined income of 200K+, which is easy to do here.

2) Sacrifice and live in a far out suburb where you can buy a nice house in the 300K range.

3) Live closer in, but in a townhouse or condo.

Uh, what far out suburb can you get a nice house for 300k!? I live in Loudoun and you cannot even get in a TH for 300k. IF you could find a home starting in the 4s and even 5s you are EASILY going to have a half dozen bidders on the first weekend.

oP i will be honest here. My family is so lucky. We purchased in Loudoun prior to the housing boom and sold at the top of the market making 300k tax free. We had a very large down payment for a beautiful home in a great neighborhood. I'm grateful daily foe our luck.

Not true.
I have a beautiful 5 bedroom 3,500 sq.ft. home in Stafford (built in '97) on an acre, across from a VRE station, that I just sold last week for $279K

Anonymous wrote:High income, bought a house here a long time ago.

+1 This area has changed a lot, and gotten much more expensive.

High income, bought a house here a long time ago.

Like other people have said, it is easier starting here out of college. You are used to not having a lot of disposable income and you start making the space/commute tradeoffs pretty early on. I lived in a sketchy area of Alexandria ...but where I could save up money to buy my own place sooner than if I had lived in Arlington.

When we were looking for a single family home, I thought about moving to a less expensive part of the country but reality is that we wouldn't have the same job opportunities elsewhere. We have made it work partly by luck. The downpayment saved living in the non hip area allowed me to buy a townhouse pre-2000 that led to the kind of downpayment needed to buy a SFH inside the Beltway. Part of having lots of career opportunities has meant being able to make one big leap in salary when I changed jobs during the heyday in my field and find another job when it has seemed as though layoffs were coming. For me, two salaries (both Dh and my salary), living like we had no money even as our salaries gradually increased, being able to both stay consistently employed, and buying pre-bubble has enabled us to afford this area.

The rest are things people have already mentioned, de-emphasizing the material aspects of life ...buying cars used, driving your car longer, kids sharing a room, not buying as much stuff (partly because of cost, partly lack of space), shopping yard sale/used (and trust me you would be surprised how much people make and still shop for used items), and in general finding a compromise you can live with. You could for example live in Prince George's County, send your kids to parochial school or one of the more affordable private schools if you don't like the local public school, and spouse could work in one of the higher paying counties as a teacher, and you pick a location that is a good commute to someone's job. People have lived further out and either slugged to use HOV or lived along the VRE or MARC line or willing to drive for up to 1.5 hr commute. People find jobs with potential to telecommute one or two days a week to help offset long commutes. They find jobs in the suburbs e.g. Reston, so they can live even further outside the City with more space or lower cost homes. They live in a condo or townhouses and trade the backyard for the closer commute. They may also rent instead of buy. There are lots of ways to make it work but the bottom line is I wouldn't move here unless I thought the job opportunities on the whole were better or a job here would put you in a better place to move back to your hometown. There are other places with culture with a lower cost of living.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:53 hit the nail on the head:

We are not saying there are not educated, creative, thoughtful individuals almost, well, anywhere. We are saying, do you want to be a big fish (one of these individuals) in a small pond (of lots of other individuals not like this), or do you want to be one of a lot of well-educated, creative, thoughtful, individuals? The latter may give you a come-uppance; you won't be a big fish in a small pond, but you'll be swimming amongst a lot of other like-minded individuals, and, in my personal opinion, everyone will be the better for it. You will rub elbows with other educated, creative individuals; there will be a tipping point, a recognized majority, of educated, liberal-minded (and I am not speaking politically), open-minded, individuals; community and local political decisions will be made by and influenced by and based upon these individuals. You will not be who you are IN SPITE OF where you are from; you will be who you are BECAUSE OF everyone else amongst whom you live. It is a synergy.

I guess I wonder just where that tipping point is. If you work, socialize, and are politically involved with people who are interesting/stimulating - in your small city - what do you gain in the larger city? I'll be lucky to meet a fiftieth of them, and so far, I have yet to see the end of the interesting work going on around me. My experience has been that people work less, socialize more (and more broadly), and have more time to branch out here, so the quality of relationship has been higher than I remember having in DC. Admittedly, it's hard to compare life stages, but still - it's not hard to find a challenge here.

I guess that is up to each and every individual, and so that is really the crux of the decision. It sounds like you may be happy if the ones you work with, socialize with, and are politically involved with -- are like-minded, thoughtful, etc. I prefer, I think, to have as many as possible around me, beyond my own personal circle, so that the entire city and community is marked by this dynamism and creativity. I don't want to feel like I have created a safe "island" of like-minded individuals despite the "rest of the hoi palloi.". I want the whole community (or as close to it as possible) to be like this. I want the whole community atmosphere to be charged with well thought-out, creative, progressive (again, not using this term politically), dynamic policy-making.

But yeah, there is no one right or wrong answer. And I have to be happy to pay more for this COL to get this QOL. So it really is up to each and every family to make this decision, I think! Sounds like some (yoiu?) would think it is not worth the increase in COL, so these people would think people like me are financially foolhardy. But others like me, who want the larger community to be as I have described above, will wax eloquent about the "culture," "education," and "opportunities" here, and sadly probably alienate folks in the first category, like you, who then take it to mean, "It is only possible to live a good life if you live somewhere like I do."

Everybody can make their own decision. There is no right or wrong. Variety is what makes the world go round.

If you think the entire District of Columbia is marked by dynamism and creativity, you are myopic indeed.

Anonymous wrote:It's very simple, OP. DC area is a thriving job market to compare to a lot of places in the US, there are also a lot of people making a lot of money here and those with ambitions to be wealthy tend to migrate to places like DC/NYC/SF, where there are opportunities to make it big. If you don't have such ambitions, then you will be fine living a very nice lifestyle on MC salary in a lower COL city. But, even if you are not the typical type A person, DC provides more selection of jobs and there are more of them to go around in case you lose your job. This is what draws a lot of people to this area as well.

I am just wondering, OP, why did you even interview for another job? Were you not happy with your existing job? Were you trying to increase your earning potential, is this important to you? And, mainly, is this attainable in your own city to achieve whatever level of success you want?

Not OP, but they recruited me heavily and offered more autonomy. OTOH, if this doesn't work out for some reason, there are fewer jobs in my field in the DC area than at home. So I'm interested in this company/challenge but concerned about being much more vulnerable because of COL.

Also, personal reasons unrelated to job/region, ball just happened to drop in DC area.

Anonymous wrote:Don't laugh but another underrated gem is Des Moines, Iowa. With all the insurance companies and other corporations there, lot of professional people. Iowa City is like a mini Ann Arbor.

Or Omaha.

Anonymous wrote:20:50 you are an ass. OP- you are right. My husband and I both work- live in DC, crappy school area but lucked out on charters for both kids, make about 150k EACH, and do not have a great big back yard or lots of sq ft in our 800k home. We have a very easy commute to our jobs, like what we do, and have lots of family in the area. But I always said, if we could make anything close to our income now (and by close, I mean 60%) of it - or if my husband could make his income somewhere else (he is in tech, and gets 30% of his income for clearances, we should go. Here is the thing, other places would not have the same culture and city life we love, but we would have larger yards,less stress, and most importantly less assholes like 20:50.

Hmmm, interesting. You're clearly not very self aware, are you? (or good with grammar, for the record.)

Anonymous wrote:Don't laugh but another underrated gem is Des Moines, Iowa. With all the insurance companies and other corporations there, lot of professional people. Iowa City is like a mini Ann Arbor.

I went to a conference in Iowa City some years ago. It was a pretty cool place!

Anonymous wrote:17:53 hit the nail on the head:

We are not saying there are not educated, creative, thoughtful individuals almost, well, anywhere. We are saying, do you want to be a big fish (one of these individuals) in a small pond (of lots of other individuals not like this), or do you want to be one of a lot of well-educated, creative, thoughtful, individuals? The latter may give you a come-uppance; you won't be a big fish in a small pond, but you'll be swimming amongst a lot of other like-minded individuals, and, in my personal opinion, everyone will be the better for it. You will rub elbows with other educated, creative individuals; there will be a tipping point, a recognized majority, of educated, liberal-minded (and I am not speaking politically), open-minded, individuals; community and local political decisions will be made by and influenced by and based upon these individuals. You will not be who you are IN SPITE OF where you are from; you will be who you are BECAUSE OF everyone else amongst whom you live. It is a synergy.

But remember, it depends on what neighborhood you live in! I'm happy in my DC neighborhood but I can't say that it conforms to this description!

It's very simple, OP. DC area is a thriving job market to compare to a lot of places in the US, there are also a lot of people making a lot of money here and those with ambitions to be wealthy tend to migrate to places like DC/NYC/SF, where there are opportunities to make it big. If you don't have such ambitions, then you will be fine living a very nice lifestyle on MC salary in a lower COL city. But, even if you are not the typical type A person, DC provides more selection of jobs and there are more of them to go around in case you lose your job. This is what draws a lot of people to this area as well.

I am just wondering, OP, why did you even interview for another job? Were you not happy with your existing job? Were you trying to increase your earning potential, is this important to you? And, mainly, is this attainable in your own city to achieve whatever level of success you want?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:53 hit the nail on the head:

We are not saying there are not educated, creative, thoughtful individuals almost, well, anywhere. We are saying, do you want to be a big fish (one of these individuals) in a small pond (of lots of other individuals not like this), or do you want to be one of a lot of well-educated, creative, thoughtful, individuals? The latter may give you a come-uppance; you won't be a big fish in a small pond, but you'll be swimming amongst a lot of other like-minded individuals, and, in my personal opinion, everyone will be the better for it. You will rub elbows with other educated, creative individuals; there will be a tipping point, a recognized majority, of educated, liberal-minded (and I am not speaking politically), open-minded, individuals; community and local political decisions will be made by and influenced by and based upon these individuals. You will not be who you are IN SPITE OF where you are from; you will be who you are BECAUSE OF everyone else amongst whom you live. It is a synergy.

I guess I wonder just where that tipping point is. If you work, socialize, and are politically involved with people who are interesting/stimulating - in your small city - what do you gain in the larger city? I'll be lucky to meet a fiftieth of them, and so far, I have yet to see the end of the interesting work going on around me. My experience has been that people work less, socialize more (and more broadly), and have more time to branch out here, so the quality of relationship has been higher than I remember having in DC. Admittedly, it's hard to compare life stages, but still - it's not hard to find a challenge here.

If you have to ask yourself this question, you are clearly not interested in living in a large city. It's not for everyone, and this is not anything negative, it's just how you feel and what you need / don't need to be happy. This isn't even related to DC, it's just there are people who live in smaller cities or villages that like to migrate to big cities for some opportunities, while there are plenty of those who decide to stay and raise families in their home cities.

There are tons of people living in DC area for different reasons. For lots of people, this is their home, where they grew up. There are also out-of-towners, who came in earlier before the housing boom and don't have same issues affording housing. Then, they are those who have great ambitions of making it in this city and they will sacrifice some comforts to make things work. Some of them end up making it and staying here or finding something else and settling. While others, get discouraged in one way or another and leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:53 hit the nail on the head:

We are not saying there are not educated, creative, thoughtful individuals almost, well, anywhere. We are saying, do you want to be a big fish (one of these individuals) in a small pond (of lots of other individuals not like this), or do you want to be one of a lot of well-educated, creative, thoughtful, individuals? The latter may give you a come-uppance; you won't be a big fish in a small pond, but you'll be swimming amongst a lot of other like-minded individuals, and, in my personal opinion, everyone will be the better for it. You will rub elbows with other educated, creative individuals; there will be a tipping point, a recognized majority, of educated, liberal-minded (and I am not speaking politically), open-minded, individuals; community and local political decisions will be made by and influenced by and based upon these individuals. You will not be who you are IN SPITE OF where you are from; you will be who you are BECAUSE OF everyone else amongst whom you live. It is a synergy.

I guess I wonder just where that tipping point is. If you work, socialize, and are politically involved with people who are interesting/stimulating - in your small city - what do you gain in the larger city? I'll be lucky to meet a fiftieth of them, and so far, I have yet to see the end of the interesting work going on around me. My experience has been that people work less, socialize more (and more broadly), and have more time to branch out here, so the quality of relationship has been higher than I remember having in DC. Admittedly, it's hard to compare life stages, but still - it's not hard to find a challenge here.

I guess that is up to each and every individual, and so that is really the crux of the decision. It sounds like you may be happy if the ones you work with, socialize with, and are politically involved with -- are like-minded, thoughtful, etc. I prefer, I think, to have as many as possible around me, beyond my own personal circle, so that the entire city and community is marked by this dynamism and creativity. I don't want to feel like I have created a safe "island" of like-minded individuals despite the "rest of the hoi palloi.". I want the whole community (or as close to it as possible) to be like this. I want the whole community atmosphere to be charged with well thought-out, creative, progressive (again, not using this term politically), dynamic policy-making.

But yeah, there is no one right or wrong answer. And I have to be happy to pay more for this COL to get this QOL. So it really is up to each and every family to make this decision, I think! Sounds like some (yoiu?) would think it is not worth the increase in COL, so these people would think people like me are financially foolhardy. But others like me, who want the larger community to be as I have described above, will wax eloquent about the "culture," "education," and "opportunities" here, and sadly probably alienate folks in the first category, like you, who then take it to mean, "It is only possible to live a good life if you live somewhere like I do."

Everybody can make their own decision. There is no right or wrong. Variety is what makes the world go round.

Anonymous wrote:Don't laugh but another underrated gem is Des Moines, Iowa. With all the insurance companies and other corporations there, lot of professional people. Iowa City is like a mini Ann Arbor.

I've heard that too!

Anonymous wrote:I love Minneapolis. Although my friend (who went to med school there) pointed out that your eyeballs freeze in the winter if you don't blink often enough.

I love it too! My sister has lived in the twin cities for 25 years. She engages with educated people daily. It is cold too. It's a gem.