Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:nowhere in the law does it say anything about "vaginal probes". stop being dramatic. ultrasounds can of course be done over the belly. not as accurate as the vaginal type for early pregnancies I guess, but accuracy really isn't the need here right? so shut up about the "medical rape" shit.

I think the purpose of the law is for the woman to see the beating heart. She won't be able to see it without the probe. Without her seeing the heartbeat, the law is just pointless.

Depending on the early stage of pregnancy, a vaginal ultrasound may absolutely be necessary to detect the heartbeat. As someone who is overweight, not grossly so but still, a vaginal ultrasound was absolutely necessary to see my child at 10 wks.

This is only about forcing a woman to see a heartbeat and the shape of the fetus. Even if the ultrasound is necessary to perform the procedure, there is no reason a women should be forced to view the screen and hear the heartbeat. Turn the screen away and mute the sound, period. Of course the expectation is that she would feel so horrible that she would change her mind. Or she would have to live with the horrible image the remainder of her life. It blows my mind that anyone would consider this an easy decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:nowhere in the law does it say anything about "vaginal probes". stop being dramatic. ultrasounds can of course be done over the belly. not as accurate as the vaginal type for early pregnancies I guess, but accuracy really isn't the need here right? so shut up about the "medical rape" shit.

I think the purpose of the law is for the woman to see the beating heart. She won't be able to see it without the probe. Without her seeing the heartbeat, the law is just pointless.

But under the law, a medicaql professional must invade her privacy in order to force her to see this heartbeat. Because the fetus isn't growing outside of her, independent of her body. If it were, all these protests would be pointless. if a fetus were capable of bringing itself through the gestation process outside of a woman's body, the same way fish eggs hatch outside the fish mom's body, then someone else could take care of that developing fetus and there would be need for abortion. I'd have no problem in fact making it illegal to end the gestation of some fetus that was developing outside the mother's body.

But inside the womans body? It is HER body. You can't invade her privacy with your medical procedures whether it is to force her to listen, look, see, care, or believe what you believe.

Or do you think we can now stick things inside anyone's body to make them see things that WE care about and hope they will change their minds?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not difficult. This is VAGINAL PROBING of a woman w/o her consent. Do you understand? Sticking a probe the size of a banana IN MY VAGINA w/o my consent. It matters not even a little that you think someone is a hypocrite (I would argue against that; presumably in an abortion, one would consent.) Again, you are saying it is ok for some random medical professional to stick a probe in my vagina w/o my consent.

How can anyone, I don't care how "pro life" you are, support that? It is medieval. And, it has NO basis in women's health and everything to do with PUNISHING a woman who wants an abortion. It's disgusting.

The punishment should fit the crime: infanticide. Oh but I forgot, it's all about me and my body....god forbid anyone would think about someone other than themselves for once, like the LIFE they are ending. Disgusting is right.

It's not a crime. but you know that. At least your medieval views of women are apparent and you don't hide them under some lame excuse.
But, regardless, your view sickens me to my core.

Good luck with that. ^^

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not difficult. This is VAGINAL PROBING of a woman w/o her consent. Do you understand? Sticking a probe the size of a banana IN MY VAGINA w/o my consent. It matters not even a little that you think someone is a hypocrite (I would argue against that; presumably in an abortion, one would consent.) Again, you are saying it is ok for some random medical professional to stick a probe in my vagina w/o my consent.

How can anyone, I don't care how "pro life" you are, support that? It is medieval. And, it has NO basis in women's health and everything to do with PUNISHING a woman who wants an abortion. It's disgusting.

The punishment should fit the crime: infanticide. Oh but I forgot, it's all about me and my body....god forbid anyone would think about someone other than themselves for once, like the LIFE they are ending. Disgusting is right.

last I checked abortion was not a crime....

For now, i for see this going to the supreme court again

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My somewhat mainstream religion taught me life doesn't begin until the baby takes a breath. Legislating earlier "life" to me is legislating against my religion. Seems to me to be a first amendment issue.

good joke

Note a joke: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Bioethics/Abortion/Fetus_in_Jewish_Law/Beginning_of_Life.shtml

Abortion in jewish law is a very, very complicated subject. Judaism doesnt blanketly prohibit it but it certainly doesnt take it lightly. Jewish law holds that the health and life of the mother is paramount. The article is a very simplistic look at one aspect of the law and really only deals with whether a person who kills a child that hasnt been born deserves the death penalty, not whether the fetus/baby can be aborted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not difficult. This is VAGINAL PROBING of a woman w/o her consent. Do you understand? Sticking a probe the size of a banana IN MY VAGINA w/o my consent. It matters not even a little that you think someone is a hypocrite (I would argue against that; presumably in an abortion, one would consent.) Again, you are saying it is ok for some random medical professional to stick a probe in my vagina w/o my consent.

How can anyone, I don't care how "pro life" you are, support that? It is medieval. And, it has NO basis in women's health and everything to do with PUNISHING a woman who wants an abortion. It's disgusting.

The punishment should fit the crime: infanticide. Oh but I forgot, it's all about me and my body....god forbid anyone would think about someone other than themselves for once, like the LIFE they are ending. Disgusting is right.

last I checked abortion was not a crime....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This law will effectively stop ivf and iui treatments in Va. Patients will no longer be able to dispose of extra fertilized eggs.

And this would be a bad thing?!

How can anyone even ask this?

Yes! Thousands of very much wanted children are alive today thanks to IVF and other advances in reproductive technology!

here is the link to a petition urging the gov not to sign both personhood and forced vaginal probing:

http://www.signon.org/sign/stop-the-war-on-women-1?source=homepage

women and men who understand the true stakes here: we MUST get organized. please sign the petition and forward it wide and far. it frightens me how much ignorance there is even on this one thread about these issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Virginial NARAL petition against personhood:

http://www.naralva.org/in-our-state/personhood.shtml

They don't have anything on the ultrasound, I think because both house and senate voted, so there's no one left to influence but McDonnell (who IIRC wrote a law school paper for the former Bob Jones University on how women shouldn't work out of the home).

Is that the Governor McDonnell who might be tapped for VP?

the Republicans DEFINITELY should have left this for after the election.


meanwhile, here are some medical implements courtesy of McDonnell:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/16/10421869-commemorative-bob-mcdonnell-vaginal-ultrasound-probes

Let me try again without insulting her gender, this is one of the most bias news sources and person

Anonymous wrote:This is not difficult. This is VAGINAL PROBING of a woman w/o her consent. Do you understand? Sticking a probe the size of a banana IN MY VAGINA w/o my consent. It matters not even a little that you think someone is a hypocrite (I would argue against that; presumably in an abortion, one would consent.) Again, you are saying it is ok for some random medical professional to stick a probe in my vagina w/o my consent.

How can anyone, I don't care how "pro life" you are, support that? It is medieval. And, it has NO basis in women's health and everything to do with PUNISHING a woman who wants an abortion. It's disgusting.

The punishment should fit the crime: infanticide. Oh but I forgot, it's all about me and my body....god forbid anyone would think about someone other than themselves for once, like the LIFE they are ending. Disgusting is right.

Anonymous wrote:nowhere in the law does it say anything about "vaginal probes". stop being dramatic. ultrasounds can of course be done over the belly. not as accurate as the vaginal type for early pregnancies I guess, but accuracy really isn't the need here right? so shut up about the "medical rape" shit.

I think the purpose of the law is for the woman to see the beating heart. She won't be able to see it without the probe. Without her seeing the heartbeat, the law is just pointless.

I must say I was creeped out about how far in my vagina VA was reaching. I looking to move to DC or GASP ! Maryland

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you wanna bet virginia will go blue in 2012 pp? Nothing energizes liberal women like this issue. They WILL be voting, too bad you laid your own trap.

Yeah I was worried there for a while. I figured all the Republicans had to do was hammer away on the economy and Obama'd be toast. They should have waited until after the election to start in on this shit.

Now it looks like re-election for Obama. Economy showing signs of life and Republicans showing true colors on women.

You Republicans screwed yourselves.

And to think I actually thought about voting for a Republican this year. I am so glad that their true colors and hatred of women are showing now. I hope the country is paying attention and outraged. God Bless!

Anonymous wrote:Virginial NARAL petition against personhood:

http://www.naralva.org/in-our-state/personhood.shtml

They don't have anything on the ultrasound, I think because both house and senate voted, so there's no one left to influence but McDonnell (who IIRC wrote a law school paper for the former Bob Jones University on how women shouldn't work out of the home).

Is that the Governor McDonnell who might be tapped for VP?

the Republicans DEFINITELY should have left this for after the election.


meanwhile, here are some medical implements courtesy of McDonnell:

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/16/10421869-commemorative-bob-mcdonnell-vaginal-ultrasound-probes