Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 14:10     Subject: Re:Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:The reality is that there are now fewer football players picking up lacrosse and being able to play at the top college level. This actually was more prevalent 10-20 years ago. I went to an Ivy League school (did not play lax but did play football). There were a number of kids that came from New England Prep Schools who played both sports in college. Today this is happening less frequently. Why? Because the sports are becoming more specialized.

While there will always be exceptions (Duke had some kids play Saturday that were also on the football team), lax is a sport that takes many years to develop. Most of the kids at D1 schools have been playing lax since they were 7 years old. It is difficult for a football player, even being a great athlete, to walk onto a lacrosse field late in his career, and have the stick skills to compete at this level.


What we are talking about here is not football players who first pick up lacrosse in high school to stay in shape. Or athletes that play both sports in college.

The threat is from kids who are good enough athletes to be both very good football players AND very good lacrosse players. And high school players with outstanding stick skills can pick the sport up in 6th or 7th grade. Increasingly stick skills aren't going to be enough.

If the very best athletes from the big Virginia high schools were also to play lacrosse, how good do you think those teams would be?

GPrep became competitive with Landon when their lacrosse team started to include the nose tackles, wide receivers and QBs from the football team.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 14:05     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
It seems to be me that we have a debate here. With some people saying that the great athletes can pick up LAX late and take the D-1 spots that preppy kids had owned. (I don't mean preppy in a perjurative way.) Another school of thought is that specialization is taking over in Lax and keeping football players out.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 13:46     Subject: Re:Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
The reality is that there are now fewer football players picking up lacrosse and being able to play at the top college level. This actually was more prevalent 10-20 years ago. I went to an Ivy League school (did not play lax but did play football). There were a number of kids that came from New England Prep Schools who played both sports in college. Today this is happening less frequently. Why? Because the sports are becoming more specialized.

While there will always be exceptions (Duke had some kids play Saturday that were also on the football team), lax is a sport that takes many years to develop. Most of the kids at D1 schools have been playing lax since they were 7 years old. It is difficult for a football player, even being a great athlete, to walk onto a lacrosse field late in his career, and have the stick skills to compete at this level.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 13:30     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:really interesting. Is that why you are seeing more and more players from the Southa Midwest and Mountain states? But there are prep, sta and st anselms, etc on both rosters.


Yes, you are seeing more players on college rosters from outside the traditional lacrosse hotbeds. And the number of slots on college rosters is growing only very slightly. So something has to give.

And there are lots of GP and Landon and some St Albans players on college rosters. But on the best teams, this number appears to be falling. And the forecast is that it will fall further as better natural athletes (bigger, faster) take up the sport in Texas, Calfifornia and other states.

For many years, Georgetown Prep and Gonzaga hosted brother Jesuit High Schools from across the country in a lacrosse tournament in DC in the Spring. Quite frankly, the teams from outside of the area weren't very good, especially in the early years.

But this is changing fast. Recently the Texas high school lacrosse championships were on TV and one of the schools playing was Dallas Jesuit vs. Coppell (A Dallas suburb). The lacrosse was every bit as good as the lacrosse in DC and the athletic resumes of some of the players were very impressive.

Seven of the Coppell (TX) laxers were members of the Coppell football team that was ranked #5 in the largest Texas high school division (5A). So now the competiton for spots on college rosters includes boys from Texas who were also Texas All State football players. That is stiff competition. How many of the Prep or Landon players do you think are good enough athletes to play football for Coppell or to earn Texas All State as a football player?

http://www.coppell-lacrosse.com/newsite/index.php/component/content/article/23-news/14-dallas-morning-news-qnet-gains-coppell-football-team-gets-big-boost-from-athletes-who-also-play-lacrosseq

The days of 5'10", 170lb kids who aren't blazing fast and who don't have much of an off-hand shot are quickly disappearing.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 13:04     Subject: Re:Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I doubt the lack of Landon players on UVA's roster has anything to do with GH since Coach Starsia has started recruiting a few Landon underclassmen.

As the sport continues to grow in popularity and more football type players pick up the stick, you will see less and less players from IAC schools on ACC rosters.


I certainly buy that last comment. This previous poster "gets it".

The door is closing on good IAC lacrosse players, who are not also great athletes. As the inventory of high school players increases without a corresponding increase in the number of colleges playing the sport, there will be far fewer IAC players -- who tend to better lacrosse players than athletes -- on the rosters of the best teams.

A criticism I have heard of IAC lacrosse players is that most tend to have no real upside in college. In these intense high school programs they have all their ability wrung out of them. There are exceptions, of course, like Bray Malphus or Ryan Curtis. But parents who are grooming kids in middle schools for the opportunties that the lacrosse players had in the 2000's are going to be greatly disappointed by the scenario they face six years from now.


This is all true. Kids from IAC schools are going to need to be excellent athletes in the future in order to make the rosters of the best teams.

The two facts that people should also appreciate though, is that--this past weekend notwithstanding--(1) ACC teams are less likely in the future to be among "the best teams." The ACC schools this weekend were all there by virtue of upsets in the tournament, and none of them really had excellent seasons.

Point (2) is a corally of this: the number of colleges playing the sport seriously is, in fact, increasing. Notre Dame has become a national power. Penn State's hiring of Tambroni last year (who, incidentally, first turned down Maryland's offer) shows their commitment to becoming a big-time power. Look for OSU and Michigan to show serious commitments at some point in the near future to match PSU and ND. And Denver under Tierney has clearly shown a commitment to becoming a powerhouse. More elite lacrosee players are becoming attracted to these schools over the ACC schools, because growing up these kids they had no aspirations to be a part of the whole ACC lax scene and everything that entails.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 13:03     Subject: Re:Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
With more kids playing the sport now than 10 years ago, and only 55 D1 programs (a few D1 programs I have never even heard of) it makes sense less IAC players are making a name for themselves at D1 level. Lacrosse is restricted by title 9 and as long as there are only 50 - 60 D1 programs, it will become harder and harder for younger kids to play D1 ball. (many schools try and field a D1 program but often times collapse after 3 -4 years after funding is lost..i.e Butler)

Look at the US lacrosse data and compare the number of active youth players who played in 1999 vs today. Compare how many D1 programs there were in 1999 to today. The numbers don't lie.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 12:40     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
really interesting. Is that why you are seeing more and more players from the Southa Midwest and Mountain states? But there are prep, sta and st anselms, etc on both rosters.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 12:34     Subject: Re:Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:I doubt the lack of Landon players on UVA's roster has anything to do with GH since Coach Starsia has started recruiting a few Landon underclassmen.

As the sport continues to grow in popularity and more football type players pick up the stick, you will see less and less players from IAC schools on ACC rosters.


I certainly buy that last comment. This previous poster "gets it".

The door is closing on good IAC lacrosse players, who are not also great athletes. As the inventory of high school players increases without a corresponding increase in the number of colleges playing the sport, there will be far fewer IAC players -- who tend to better lacrosse players than athletes -- on the rosters of the best teams.

A criticism I have heard of IAC lacrosse players is that most tend to have no real upside in college. In these intense high school programs they have all their ability wrung out of them. There are exceptions, of course, like Bray Malphus or Ryan Curtis. But parents who are grooming kids in middle schools for the opportunties that the lacrosse players had in the 2000's are going to be greatly disappointed by the scenario they face six years from now.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 12:13     Subject: Re:Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
I doubt the lack of Landon players on UVA's roster has anything to do with GH since Coach Starsia has started recruiting a few Landon underclassmen.

As the sport continues to grow in popularity and more football type players pick up the stick, you will see less and less players from IAC schools on ACC rosters.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 11:54     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
How is it meaningless? Isn't it more meaningful if the UVA had a lot of Landon kids before and now has none. Isn't the lack of Landon kids on either either team, along with the presence of other local schools on both teams, quite meaningful?

Is this a Huguely related-trend?
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2011 10:36     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:I noticed Georgetown Prep had kids on both sides of the ncaa championship, none on either team, as far as I could tell from Landon. UVA had kids from several local schools including STA.


Which might be interesting, but essentially meaningless. UVA has had a lot of Landon grads in the past.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2011 19:39     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
I noticed Georgetown Prep had kids on both sides of the ncaa championship, none on either team, as far as I could tell from Landon. UVA had kids from several local schools including STA.
Anonymous
Post 05/25/2011 22:33     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:There is a direct correlation between the economy, the number of kids going from Mater Dei to Gonzaga, and the rise of Gonzaga lacrosse. If this trend continues (and there is no reason to assume otherwise), Prep will continue to lose some athletes/lax players to Gonzaga and perhaps elsewhere. Prep will always be a top lax program, but they will not have as strong an automatic lacrosse feeder program from Mater Dei as they've had over the past decade+.


Poor kids? Lax star or not, Gonzaga can have 'em!
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2011 14:54     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
Anonymous wrote:There is a direct correlation between the economy, the number of kids going from Mater Dei to Gonzaga, and the rise of Gonzaga lacrosse. If this trend continues (and there is no reason to assume otherwise), Prep will continue to lose some athletes/lax players to Gonzaga and perhaps elsewhere. Prep will always be a top lax program, but they will not have as strong an automatic lacrosse feeder program from Mater Dei as they've had over the past decade+.[/quote

With your ability to forecast the direction of the economy, we could have used you a few years ago.

I disagree with your thesis that GP lacrosse will go down and Gonzaga lacrosse will rise as the proportion of Mater Dei grads changes. You are giving the Mater Dei program too much credit. Mater Dei has produced a lot of "supplemental" players through the years. Many of the stars have come from elsewhere starting with guys like Scott Doyle (St. E's)

What Giblin must to is get the best GP athletes to play lacrosse and attract athletes from the area Catholic schools.

With 1000 boys it's wonder Gonzaga hasn't been any better than its been before the last few years.

DeMatha has zero Mater Dei kids and they have been pretty good.



Anonymous
Post 05/24/2011 12:57     Subject: Landon vs. Georgetown Prep Upper School
There is a direct correlation between the economy, the number of kids going from Mater Dei to Gonzaga, and the rise of Gonzaga lacrosse. If this trend continues (and there is no reason to assume otherwise), Prep will continue to lose some athletes/lax players to Gonzaga and perhaps elsewhere. Prep will always be a top lax program, but they will not have as strong an automatic lacrosse feeder program from Mater Dei as they've had over the past decade+.