Anonymous wrote:This thread has devolved but much of the commentary now is about why test scores should be required for college admission. I respectfully do not think they should be. There is lots of research that shows SAT / ACT are biased to benefit Asians / Whites, and there are many reasons why URM do patently worse as a whole.

Lastly, most developed countries outside of the US don’t have admission exams. They use grades, coursework, and extra curriculars to decide who gets in. This inherently biased system of admissions exams using tests is a US thing, and it is geared to benefit those with means. Even the ones fighting the use of race based preference are the same ones using their means to gain an edge. It’s actually sickening.

SAT is biased in favor of Asians and whites because they tend to do
better? As opposed to measuring something that gives one piece of objective data? How about GPA? Asians and whites have better GPAs as well on average. So GPAs are biased too by your logic. I guess we should scrap that too, and just have a lottery to see who should go to Berkeley or MIT. More tickets will
be given to those from
certain underrrepresented groups to increase their chances in the lottery.

Also, please name which of “most developed countries” as you state leans on high school extracurriculars instead of exam scores to determine college admissions. It sure as heck is not in Europe or Asia…GCSEs, A levels, college entrance exams, etc etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This debate has been going on in California for years. Maybe the UC San Diego debacle has made it more apparent. The UC's admit based on high schools, not just merit of the general applicant pool. It is an equity driven way to avoid Prop 209.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1275465.page

Dominguez High has 1,600 students Dominguez High has 0 NMSF finalists and 0 Commended.
University High has 2,363 students. University High has 33 NMSF finalists, 102 Commended

Keep dreaming if you think their applications are being treated equally.

Dominguez High
Berkeley
21 Applied
6 Accepted
28% acceptance rate
UCLA
72 Applied
7 Accepted
7 Enrolled


University High
UC Berkeley
266 Applied
31 Accepted
14 Enrolled
11% acceptance rate
UCLA
294 Applied
24 Accepted
12 Enrolled

UC admissions are not based on High Schools, that is a myth. However, they do have a commitment to achieving a student population that broadly matches the regional distribution of students across the state. There is a group on DCUM that will not be satisfied until Berkely and UCLA are extensions of Gunn, Lynbrook, Monte Vista, Mission San Jose, Lowell and other Asian dominated High Schools in the Bay Area.

If they are light years more qualified, smarter and ready to excel then frankly they should make up the overwhelming majority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has devolved but much of the commentary now is about why test scores should be required for college admission. I respectfully do not think they should be. There is lots of research that shows SAT / ACT are biased to benefit Asians / Whites, and there are many reasons why URM do patently worse as a whole.

Lastly, most developed countries outside of the US don’t have admission exams. They use grades, coursework, and extra curriculars to decide who gets in. This inherently biased system of admissions exams using tests is a US thing, and it is geared to benefit those with means. Even the ones fighting the use of race based preference are the same ones using their means to gain an edge. It’s actually sickening.

Poor URM performance is directly linked to the massive percentage of single parent households in URM communities. Schools can’t fix it.

Yet UCSD has a near 90% graduation rate. Seems like things can be fixed.

In 6-7 years and those kids are shuttled into easy majors with low employment options. In any given class, 1/8 are unqualified and 1/10 don’t graduate the difference isn’t catching up, they are being given a useless degree with a barely passing GPA. Plus UCSD usually has an 85% graduation rate in the 6 year stretch not 90.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has devolved but much of the commentary now is about why test scores should be required for college admission. I respectfully do not think they should be. There is lots of research that shows SAT / ACT are biased to benefit Asians / Whites, and there are many reasons why URM do patently worse as a whole.

Lastly, most developed countries outside of the US don’t have admission exams. They use grades, coursework, and extra curriculars to decide who gets in. This inherently biased system of admissions exams using tests is a US thing, and it is geared to benefit those with means. Even the ones fighting the use of race based preference are the same ones using their means to gain an edge. It’s actually sickening.

Poor URM performance is directly linked to the massive percentage of single parent households in URM communities. Schools can’t fix it.

Yet UCSD has a near 90% graduation rate. Seems like things can be fixed.

Anonymous wrote:This debate has been going on in California for years. Maybe the UC San Diego debacle has made it more apparent. The UC's admit based on high schools, not just merit of the general applicant pool. It is an equity driven way to avoid Prop 209.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1275465.page

Dominguez High has 1,600 students Dominguez High has 0 NMSF finalists and 0 Commended.
University High has 2,363 students. University High has 33 NMSF finalists, 102 Commended

Keep dreaming if you think their applications are being treated equally.

Dominguez High
Berkeley
21 Applied
6 Accepted
28% acceptance rate
UCLA
72 Applied
7 Accepted
7 Enrolled


University High
UC Berkeley
266 Applied
31 Accepted
14 Enrolled
11% acceptance rate
UCLA
294 Applied
24 Accepted
12 Enrolled

UC admissions are not based on High Schools, that is a myth. However, they do have a commitment to achieving a student population that broadly matches the regional distribution of students across the state. There is a group on DCUM that will not be satisfied until Berkely and UCLA are extensions of Gunn, Lynbrook, Monte Vista, Mission San Jose, Lowell and other Asian dominated High Schools in the Bay Area.

Fun thing, this exists in many states that aren’t homogenous. UT Austin has 6% rule and 10% rule for all the other state universities. States have to do something about their poor education at some point.

Anonymous wrote:This thread has devolved but much of the commentary now is about why test scores should be required for college admission. I respectfully do not think they should be. There is lots of research that shows SAT / ACT are biased to benefit Asians / Whites, and there are many reasons why URM do patently worse as a whole.

Lastly, most developed countries outside of the US don’t have admission exams. They use grades, coursework, and extra curriculars to decide who gets in. This inherently biased system of admissions exams using tests is a US thing, and it is geared to benefit those with means. Even the ones fighting the use of race based preference are the same ones using their means to gain an edge. It’s actually sickening.

Poor URM performance is directly linked to the massive percentage of single parent households in URM communities. Schools can’t fix it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can all this be true and yet everyone keeps telling me my kid with a B average who is in advanced math and sciences classes won’t get in anywhere for college?

Yes. I am puzzled too. This is just discouraging that my kid is shut out because of the skin color and income of the parents.

But is your kid shut out? Seriously not admitted to one UCSD-caliber school in the United States? Many such schools have admissions rates over 80% and rely heavily on SAT scores. And if you’re focused on the short list of elite privates, well, UCSD was never one of those anyway.

It's absurd, plain and simple. The standards are different by zip code, this IS discrimination based on race, plain and simple, just not the way you like to look at it.

It’s technically selection based on socioeconomics rather than income to be honest. I also think it’s a brilliant and totally legal workaround. And you can always move to a neighborhood like Compton if you want a hook. It’s about making informed choices

Your system, or rather UC's system, is working pretty good then. Nothing like UC San Diego being put on blast for having college students who add like third graders. A resounding success!

UCSD is also a lower tier UC. Compare it to an Old Dominion with smarter kids and better weather.

Other than Berkeley, UC schools are all lower tier but USNWR loves them. Wonder if this revelation will cause adjustments to next years rankings.

Berkeley is no different than the others. It’s actually worse by some metrics like class sizes and courses taught by TAs.

Link supporting your claim please.

Easy to find, google and AI is your friend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can all this be true and yet everyone keeps telling me my kid with a B average who is in advanced math and sciences classes won’t get in anywhere for college?

Yes. I am puzzled too. This is just discouraging that my kid is shut out because of the skin color and income of the parents.

This is pathetic. We are passed Affirmative Action and you all are still moaning about how unfair the system is. If you're decently upper middle class and your kid is shut out of higher ed, you may just be trying to get a round peg in a square hole.

DP.

Fact is: DEIA is racism.

Treating children differently based on their skin color violates the Civil Rights Act. The entire point of DEIA is to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.

Affirmative Action/DEI has not gone away - the schools just changed the names of the various programs/offices and these programs are still going on even at Harvard and at UCs as well.

This along with "No Child Left Behind" forced public schools/ principals/teachers to lower the standards and focus on passing the kids regardless of whether these kids learned anything in Elementary or Middle schools.

Affirmative action is illegal. Admissions programs cannot see the race of their applicants. At some point, you’re just a sore loser.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can all this be true and yet everyone keeps telling me my kid with a B average who is in advanced math and sciences classes won’t get in anywhere for college?

Yes. I am puzzled too. This is just discouraging that my kid is shut out because of the skin color and income of the parents.

This is pathetic. We are passed Affirmative Action and you all are still moaning about how unfair the system is. If you're decently upper middle class and your kid is shut out of higher ed, you may just be trying to get a round peg in a square hole.

DP.

Fact is: DEIA is racism.

Treating children differently based on their skin color violates the Civil Rights Act. The entire point of DEIA is to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.

Luckily this is a mythology of your own.

This debate has been going on in California for years. Maybe the UC San Diego debacle has made it more apparent. The UC's admit based on high schools, not just merit of the general applicant pool. It is an equity driven way to avoid Prop 209.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1275465.page

Dominguez High has 1,600 students Dominguez High has 0 NMSF finalists and 0 Commended.
University High has 2,363 students. University High has 33 NMSF finalists, 102 Commended

Keep dreaming if you think their applications are being treated equally.

Dominguez High
Berkeley
21 Applied
6 Accepted
28% acceptance rate
UCLA
72 Applied
7 Accepted
7 Enrolled


University High
UC Berkeley
266 Applied
31 Accepted
14 Enrolled
11% acceptance rate
UCLA
294 Applied
24 Accepted
12 Enrolled

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can all this be true and yet everyone keeps telling me my kid with a B average who is in advanced math and sciences classes won’t get in anywhere for college?

Yes. I am puzzled too. This is just discouraging that my kid is shut out because of the skin color and income of the parents.

But is your kid shut out? Seriously not admitted to one UCSD-caliber school in the United States? Many such schools have admissions rates over 80% and rely heavily on SAT scores. And if you’re focused on the short list of elite privates, well, UCSD was never one of those anyway.

It's absurd, plain and simple. The standards are different by zip code, this IS discrimination based on race, plain and simple, just not the way you like to look at it.

It’s technically selection based on socioeconomics rather than income to be honest. I also think it’s a brilliant and totally legal workaround. And you can always move to a neighborhood like Compton if you want a hook. It’s about making informed choices

Your system, or rather UC's system, is working pretty good then. Nothing like UC San Diego being put on blast for having college students who add like third graders. A resounding success!

UCSD is also a lower tier UC. Compare it to an Old Dominion with smarter kids and better weather.

Other than Berkeley, UC schools are all lower tier but USNWR loves them. Wonder if this revelation will cause adjustments to next years rankings.

Berkeley is no different than the others. It’s actually worse by some metrics like class sizes and courses taught by TAs.

Link supporting your claim please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can all this be true and yet everyone keeps telling me my kid with a B average who is in advanced math and sciences classes won’t get in anywhere for college?

Yes. I am puzzled too. This is just discouraging that my kid is shut out because of the skin color and income of the parents.

This is pathetic. We are passed Affirmative Action and you all are still moaning about how unfair the system is. If you're decently upper middle class and your kid is shut out of higher ed, you may just be trying to get a round peg in a square hole.

DP.

Fact is: DEIA is racism.

Treating children differently based on their skin color violates the Civil Rights Act. The entire point of DEIA is to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.

Affirmative Action/DEI has not gone away - the schools just changed the names of the various programs/offices and these programs are still going on even at Harvard and at UCs as well.

This along with "No Child Left Behind" forced public schools/ principals/teachers to lower the standards and focus on passing the kids regardless of whether these kids learned anything in Elementary or Middle schools.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster claiming to be shut out of UVA with a 1550 and all the T20's never did say what part of their application was not up to par. No mention of rigor, GPA, AP's scores, EC's, LOR's. Nothing.

Why are people like this? Of course no one knows what part of the application was “not up to par.” The whole system is designed to be mysterious and unpredictable. There’s no official ranking of ECs. You never see the LORs. There’s no way to compare GPA from one school to another, and even within schools, many don't rank. Kids with unweighted 4.0s scoring in the top 0.5% of the SAT have no way of knowing where they might plausibly be allowed to go to college.

Please let’s not let this turn into another grievance fest. Ok I get the point that you think that certain high scorers should be auto-admits to your state public flagship. But your kid with the “unweighted 4.0 and 99.5% SAT” is going to “be allowed” to go to any number of great colleges.

It really is unfair that a kid from San Diego or the Bay Area who pushed themselves to get As/5s in multiple APs, is ready to excel at a top UC loses their seat to a kid who can’t do middle school or elementary school math. Let’s not fool ourselves that these kids who need ES level math are the best and brightest or simply math challenged while being gifted writers. They aren’t! If UC published the state verbal as well as math scores for their admits, you would be just as shocked. These kids don’t blossom at UCs. They drop out or barely get through easy majors and take up tons of resources. The only positive they add is to pad the bottom of the curve. In a curved class, you want these kids as your classmates.

The other reason UCs admit so many unqualified kids from low income areas, is that many decline. So in addition to the unqualified enrolled students, there are many more admits. The smart ones realize that housing isn’t guaranteed anywhere except UCLA and it is extremely expensive to live and commute near UCSD. The smart ones do CC for two years while working or go to their regional Cal state school, living at home to graduate debt free.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can all this be true and yet everyone keeps telling me my kid with a B average who is in advanced math and sciences classes won’t get in anywhere for college?

Yes. I am puzzled too. This is just discouraging that my kid is shut out because of the skin color and income of the parents.

This is pathetic. We are passed Affirmative Action and you all are still moaning about how unfair the system is. If you're decently upper middle class and your kid is shut out of higher ed, you may just be trying to get a round peg in a square hole.

DP.

Fact is: DEIA is racism.

Treating children differently based on their skin color violates the Civil Rights Act. The entire point of DEIA is to treat people differently based on the color of their skin.

Affirmative Action/DEI has not gone away - the schools just changed the names of the various programs/offices and these programs are still going on even at Harvard and at UCs as well.

This along with "No Child Left Behind" forced public schools/ principals/teachers to lower the standards and focus on passing the kids regardless of whether these kids learned anything in Elementary or Middle schools.