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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

But part of the question is would a Newsome or Harris GOTV? Especially in the electoral college states.

MAGA is successful because it channels anger and grievance. No policy prescriptions. Just burn it all down. Just make Republicans righteous about their hatred of immigrants and lgbt and poc. Just spout fantasies about getting rid of taxes.

And then lie when nothing improves with zero consequences. Remember the Foxconn plant? Never got built. Never created jobs. And yet.

Relative to Biden, folks.... of course yhey would. Give the people what they want. They want viable alternatives. The GOP isn't giving that to them. We can win so easily if Joe does the right thing.

Pp here. As an independent I hope at least one party does the right thing. Either Biden drops out and the democrats have an open convention. Or Trump does and the republicans do. Imagine if the race were to be Harris vs Haley.

Haley would demolish Harris in the debates -- that'd be painful to watch.

More like the opposite. Harris is a former prosecutor.

... whose new public persona is that of a Jamaican pot smoker who loves word salads and attracts zero support, as we saw in the primaries last time.

Zero support?? Haley is not impressive at all.

Come on....Haley went much further, got much more support, than Harris, in their respective primaries.

Haley was essentially Bernie, the top finalist....whereas Harris was a joke who didn't make the top 5.

Anonymous wrote:To get back to the topic here...the fact that the debate changed the minds of 7% of watchers about Biden's ability to lead the country is HUGE . We are a country where our Presidential candidates win by slim margins.

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Anonymous wrote:Explain to me how Trump will get more votes compared to 2020? His base is about 30%. He has to win suburbs in swing states. He is going to get women’s votes in the burbs. Seriously?

We keep hearing he is ahead in polls. Bad debate performance or not, it does not make sense. Especially considering the elections Ds won in 2023 and so far this year. R platforms are not popular!

Trump’s approval and disapproval ratings are slightly better than Biden’s. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

And this was before the debate.

Where you you see that his base is 30%?

I am not pro Trump but I am a realist. If Biden is the nominee the Democrats will lose.

Yes, Biden will lose and instead of blaming Biden for not stepping out of the race or ourselves for not demanding that he do so for the sake of the country, we'll blame Russia, Jill Stein, the mainstream media, mashes potatoes, tonka trucks...... you name it. I'm doing trying to fix stupid. We deserve to lose.

How will Trump win? Will he win the women vote? The largest voting block. Good luck with that!

Trump won't "win" anything. Biden will lose because his ego is telling him to stay in the race even though everyone with at least half a brain is begging him him to step away

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Anonymous wrote:There’s no such thing as a “swing voter.” There are people who don’t want to tell pollsters how they’re going to vote. But they definitely know even if they pretend they haven’t decided.

And then there are voters who sometimes stay home when they aren’t inspired and sometimes they go to the polls when they are. Or if they’re the type who always vote but they don’t like either candidate they may vote 3rd party or write-in.

But the idea that anyone is going to swing between Trump and Biden, or vice versa, is ludicrous. If your point is this hurts Biden’s ability to turn out the vote, or conversely helps Trump do so, say that. But don’t pretend there's some special group of voters of any significant number who actually can be won over or not. Minds are made up already. The question is will they actually vote.

Not everyone is you. Not everyone thinks like you. I'm a swing voter. In 2016, I was still debating who to vote for as I stood in line to vote. The data proves that swing voters exist. And as someone who is a swing voters can testify, we exist.

And swing voters are a different species entirely. Republicans tend to purchase certain brands or products while democrats purchase different ones. Swing voters have different buying patterns entirely. So you may have never met someone like me, and we are a small minority, but we very much exist. And my voting record would shock you. It is very swingy.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, DCUM is much better informed on policy and insider politics than the rest of the US.

It doesn't mean they put country over party. It doesn't mean they can't be massive hypocrites when they want to.

Because Biden leads a party whose values align with their own, a lot of posters wave away his decline. It's a grave mistake. It makes them no better than conservatives putting up with Trump because they want to further a conservative agenda.

We should get a new Dem candidate ASAP.

Says the party who put a man with diagnosed Alzheimer in the White House from 1980-1988 and then lionized him until Trump the rapey face rapist took his place as your cult leader. Goodbye Hypocrite. Biden has not been diagnosed with anything remotely close.

+1, and had an awful wife who decorated everything in that hideous red color and brought in astrologer to make his schedule.

None of this stuff is effective criticism anymore. When Trump said, "I didn't have sex with a porn star. Number one." I couldn't help but think that Joe Biden could never be credibly accused of such a thong. He lacks vigor. So I went from thinking, that porn star thing is seedy , to thinking about how impossible that would have been for Joe on 100 levels. He doesn't golf (and isn't better than Tiger Woods despite his claim otherwise during the debate). He can't socialize-- in his trip to Europe he skipped the dinners with other world leaders because he couldn't hang. And then there are other reasons that can't be discussed in polite company. Literally everything they throw at Trump these days blows right back on them in some way.

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Anonymous wrote:Explain to me how Trump will get more votes compared to 2020? His base is about 30%. He has to win suburbs in swing states. He is going to get women’s votes in the burbs. Seriously?

We keep hearing he is ahead in polls. Bad debate performance or not, it does not make sense. Especially considering the elections Ds won in 2023 and so far this year. R platforms are not popular!

Trump’s approval and disapproval ratings are slightly better than Biden’s. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

And this was before the debate.

Where you you see that his base is 30%?

I am not pro Trump but I am a realist. If Biden is the nominee the Democrats will lose.

Yes, Biden will lose and instead of blaming Biden for not stepping out of the race or ourselves for not demanding that he do so for the sake of the country, we'll blame Russia, Jill Stein, the mainstream media, mashes potatoes, tonka trucks...... you name it. I'm doing trying to fix stupid. We deserve to lose.

How will Trump win? Will he win the women vote? The largest voting block. Good luck with that!

Trump won't "win" anything. Biden will lose because his ego is telling him to stay in the race even though everyone with at least half a brain is begging him him to step away

So those voters don’t vote at all? No logic there. You think women will stay home and not vote?

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Anonymous wrote:Explain to me how Trump will get more votes compared to 2020? His base is about 30%. He has to win suburbs in swing states. He is going to get women’s votes in the burbs. Seriously?

We keep hearing he is ahead in polls. Bad debate performance or not, it does not make sense. Especially considering the elections Ds won in 2023 and so far this year. R platforms are not popular!

Trump’s approval and disapproval ratings are slightly better than Biden’s. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

And this was before the debate.

Where you you see that his base is 30%?

I am not pro Trump but I am a realist. If Biden is the nominee the Democrats will lose.

Yes, Biden will lose and instead of blaming Biden for not stepping out of the race or ourselves for not demanding that he do so for the sake of the country, we'll blame Russia, Jill Stein, the mainstream media, mashes potatoes, tonka trucks...... you name it. I'm doing trying to fix stupid. We deserve to lose.

How will Trump win? Will he win the women vote? The largest voting block. Good luck with that!

Trump won't "win" anything. Biden will lose because his ego is telling him to stay in the race even though everyone with at least half a brain is begging him him to step away

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain to me how Trump will get more votes compared to 2020? His base is about 30%. He has to win suburbs in swing states. He is going to get women’s votes in the burbs. Seriously?

We keep hearing he is ahead in polls. Bad debate performance or not, it does not make sense. Especially considering the elections Ds won in 2023 and so far this year. R platforms are not popular!

Trump’s approval and disapproval ratings are slightly better than Biden’s. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

And this was before the debate.

Where you you see that his base is 30%?

I am not pro Trump but I am a realist. If Biden is the nominee the Democrats will lose.

Yes, Biden will lose and instead of blaming Biden for not stepping out of the race or ourselves for not demanding that he do so for the sake of the country, we'll blame Russia, Jill Stein, the mainstream media, mashes potatoes, tonka trucks...... you name it. I'm doing trying to fix stupid. We deserve to lose.

How will Trump win? Will he win the women vote? The largest voting block. Good luck with that!

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

But part of the question is would a Newsome or Harris GOTV? Especially in the electoral college states.

MAGA is successful because it channels anger and grievance. No policy prescriptions. Just burn it all down. Just make Republicans righteous about their hatred of immigrants and lgbt and poc. Just spout fantasies about getting rid of taxes.

And then lie when nothing improves with zero consequences. Remember the Foxconn plant? Never got built. Never created jobs. And yet.

Relative to Biden, folks.... of course yhey would. Give the people what they want. They want viable alternatives. The GOP isn't giving that to them. We can win so easily if Joe does the right thing.

Pp here. As an independent I hope at least one party does the right thing. Either Biden drops out and the democrats have an open convention. Or Trump does and the republicans do. Imagine if the race were to be Harris vs Haley.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain to me how Trump will get more votes compared to 2020? His base is about 30%. He has to win suburbs in swing states. He is going to get women’s votes in the burbs. Seriously?

We keep hearing he is ahead in polls. Bad debate performance or not, it does not make sense. Especially considering the elections Ds won in 2023 and so far this year. R platforms are not popular!

Trump’s approval and disapproval ratings are slightly better than Biden’s. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

And this was before the debate.

Where you you see that his base is 30%?

I am not pro Trump but I am a realist. If Biden is the nominee the Democrats will lose.

Yes, Biden will lose and instead of blaming Biden for not stepping out of the race or ourselves for not demanding that he do so for the sake of the country, we'll blame Russia, Jill Stein, the mainstream media, mashes potatoes, tonka trucks...... you name it. I'm doing trying to fix stupid. We deserve to lose.

How will Trump win? Will he win the women vote? The largest voting block. Good luck with that!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain to me how Trump will get more votes compared to 2020? His base is about 30%. He has to win suburbs in swing states. He is going to get women’s votes in the burbs. Seriously?

We keep hearing he is ahead in polls. Bad debate performance or not, it does not make sense. Especially considering the elections Ds won in 2023 and so far this year. R platforms are not popular!

Trump’s approval and disapproval ratings are slightly better than Biden’s. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

And this was before the debate.

Where you you see that his base is 30%?

I am not pro Trump but I am a realist. If Biden is the nominee the Democrats will lose.

Yes, Biden will lose and instead of blaming Biden for not stepping out of the race or ourselves for not demanding that he do so for the sake of the country, we'll blame Russia, Jill Stein, the mainstream media, mashes potatoes, tonka trucks...... you name it. I'm doing trying to fix stupid. We deserve to lose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

But part of the question is would a Newsome or Harris GOTV? Especially in the electoral college states.

MAGA is successful because it channels anger and grievance. No policy prescriptions. Just burn it all down. Just make Republicans righteous about their hatred of immigrants and lgbt and poc. Just spout fantasies about getting rid of taxes.

And then lie when nothing improves with zero consequences. Remember the Foxconn plant? Never got built. Never created jobs. And yet.

Relative to Biden, folks.... of course yhey would. Give the people what they want. They want viable alternatives. The GOP isn't giving that to them. We can win so easily if Joe does the right thing.

Pp here. As an independent I hope at least one party does the right thing. Either Biden drops out and the democrats have an open convention. Or Trump does and the republicans do. Imagine if the race were to be Harris vs Haley.

Haley would demolish Harris in the debates -- that'd be painful to watch.

More like the opposite. Harris is a former prosecutor.

... whose new public persona is that of a Jamaican pot smoker who loves word salads and attracts zero support, as we saw in the primaries last time.

Zero support?? Haley is not impressive at all.

Come on....Haley went much further, got much more support, than Harris, in their respective primaries.

Haley was essentially Bernie, the top finalist....whereas Harris was a joke who didn't make the top 5.

Anonymous wrote:Coveffee