Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

It sounds like a defeatist sad sack mentality. Your kid will never be good so why bother even trying? But, how would you know without trying? There are so many good life lessons in the process. Why would you discourage a kid from trying their best, setting goals, challenging themselves? What's the alternative? Sounds like it's doing nothing and just hating on everyone else.

There's a huge difference between pushing a kid to try their best as a process to develop the kids and teach them life lessons vs pushing a kid beyond what's reasonable/healthy so they can reach a pie in the sky elitist goal. This whole conversation started with an OP lamenting that their seemingly well-adjusted, healthy and happy kids enjoyed a peaceful life and got into good schools but not ivies or aren't playing on scholarship. It's borderline sickness to be disappointed in your child if they don't achieve a status that's reserved for approximately 1-2% of the population.

We had a different read on the OP. OP seemed to think by casually playing rec you could walk onto the baseball team in high school. Turns out that wasn't the case. And then you're taking it to the furthest extreme to mean that OP expected a D1 baseball scholarship by forcing them through all available means to do something they hated and had no talent for. Plenty of kids play youth sports and are happy doing it beyond a rec level without their parents forcing them or having a sickness. There's a whole middle ground between doing nothing and expecting to be elite.

I don't think our read was that different. I think the OP provided their kids that middle ground of playing youth sports and the kids being happy with it. Unless a child shows natural ability AND a desire to throw their life into sports That middle ground SHOULD be the end all be all.

OP's position seems to be (and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong) that they somehow failed because they didn't push their kid for a D1 scholarship despite it sounding like their kids are doing well. It's the comparison to an highlight elite percent of athletes/academics that is robbing OP of the joy she should have in raising kids that are on track to be successful and she did it in a way that worked for her family. Strive a hard as you want but it's the process of striving that's more valuable than a predetermined result (uber-elite college or D1 scholarship)

That’s silly. As long as they try that’s what is important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

Actually sports are good for mental and physical health. Where are you getting this non-sense or is it to justify your unwillingness to parent?

They sound like they were the bitter losers and trying to knock down the athletic kids.

I was a nerdy kid who didn’t play sports. I am not bitter and have no need to knock down teen athletes on the internet.

My kid is not athletic, tries hard at their sport and I could not imagine not allowing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

It sounds like a defeatist sad sack mentality. Your kid will never be good so why bother even trying? But, how would you know without trying? There are so many good life lessons in the process. Why would you discourage a kid from trying their best, setting goals, challenging themselves? What's the alternative? Sounds like it's doing nothing and just hating on everyone else.

There's a huge difference between pushing a kid to try their best as a process to develop the kids and teach them life lessons vs pushing a kid beyond what's reasonable/healthy so they can reach a pie in the sky elitist goal. This whole conversation started with an OP lamenting that their seemingly well-adjusted, healthy and happy kids enjoyed a peaceful life and got into good schools but not ivies or aren't playing on scholarship. It's borderline sickness to be disappointed in your child if they don't achieve a status that's reserved for approximately 1-2% of the population.

My parents would not let us do activities or anything that inconvenienced them. They always screamed poverty except spending on themselves. I resented it. They are the most selfish people I know. Encouraging your kids to explore their interests is important. They don’t need to be super stars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted once about my friend who was pushing her daughters to play travel when her kids didn’t even want to go to rec. The parents themselves are not very athletic but wanted their kids to be athletes. Kids got cut from travel teams in elementary. You can push all you want but if your kid doesn’t like it or want to do it, s/he will not excel.

But it takes both. If the super talented kid doesn't have a ride to the tournament or practice, he's not going to get far.

This is true. I posted above that my kid likes basketball. It isn’t like in the movies where some kid just plays street ball and becomes some NBA player. Maybe this can happen somewhere with some 7 ft talented basketball kid who somehow manages to train himself.

From what I see, the talented players often have a parent or parents who were athletes themselves. They may have been high school, college or pro but the parents were some type of athlete. These kids start early. They may do some switching of sports but they all play sports from young ages. By the time they are 10-12, they are already on competitive teams whether it is basketball, soccer, tennis, baseball or lacrosse. The days of just walking on a team in high school are gone.

To use Simone Biles as an example (because my daughter is into gymnastics) her family was deep in debt before the Olympics, behind on their gym fees. A lot of families can't or won't take a second mortgage to let their kids fulfill their fantasies. It's not just raw talent. It's very much pay to play.

Absolutely. I just posted above that my kid plays tennis. He is athletic but we have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on tennis. I know tennis is an expensive sport.

My friend has a daughter who is really good at gymnastics. I know they have to travel often for tournaments. Even without the training and gym costs, just the time and money to travel to these meets and tournaments will cost you thousands. You need parents with the time, money and dedication to do this.

I recently saw that tiger woods’ parents had to take a second mortgage to support his golf playing. It sure paid off.

Except for Tiger Woods' pain/medical conditions, his womanizing that broke up his nuclear family, and his risk-taking behaviors. All related to his exceptional career. He is a great athlete but also seems like a very troubled person.

Many people, not in sports, average people have affairs, medical issues and much more. One has nothing to do with the other.

PP. Disagree. His career gave him overuse injuries, made him an attractive affair/extortion target, his auto accident was in an unfamiliar high performance car loaned by the automotive company he was endorsing. Of course ordinary people have problems, but his sports capabilities also seem to have enabled most of his dysfunctional behavior.

He would have done those things either way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your post is giving me anxiety, my kids are in elementary. So are you saying that we should invest in math tutors?

DP. The US is abysmal - nationwide - at teaching math. The PISA results have shown that for years. The top math students in public or private schools probably all had outside classes from Kumon, RSM, Mathnasium, or AoPS. Sorry to bring the bad news.

Mine never did. We did workbooks early on at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t agree with continually pushing kids if they have zero desire to do something. But I also don’t buy into the attitude of let the kids do whatever, because talented or smart kids just find a way.

I am a smart, talented kid who wasn’t pushed. I never tried an array of sports, and once we got a piano teacher we stuck with her until we moved to another based on schedule or family friends. I loved reading and writing but was never encouraged to write.
.”

Back before activities became big business, kids who loved sports found a way to play it. When lakes were frozen they were there with their pucks and sticks. Basketball courts were full almost 24/7 with pick up games or kids just practicing. Football, lacrosse played in fields.

They didn’t need adults to push them. By middle school the talented ones, the ones with potential stood out. They played varsity and then some played college and then very few played professional. My brother varsity football, lacrosse then div 2 college. No outside teams back then. My cousins same thing one went professional.

Times have changed. Don’t blame your parents. You didn’t have the drive to pursue what you loved. Gym classes in school introduced students to an array of sports.

There were always the sports.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted once about my friend who was pushing her daughters to play travel when her kids didn’t even want to go to rec. The parents themselves are not very athletic but wanted their kids to be athletes. Kids got cut from travel teams in elementary. You can push all you want but if your kid doesn’t like it or want to do it, s/he will not excel.

But it takes both. If the super talented kid doesn't have a ride to the tournament or practice, he's not going to get far.

This is true. I posted above that my kid likes basketball. It isn’t like in the movies where some kid just plays street ball and becomes some NBA player. Maybe this can happen somewhere with some 7 ft talented basketball kid who somehow manages to train himself.

From what I see, the talented players often have a parent or parents who were athletes themselves. They may have been high school, college or pro but the parents were some type of athlete. These kids start early. They may do some switching of sports but they all play sports from young ages. By the time they are 10-12, they are already on competitive teams whether it is basketball, soccer, tennis, baseball or lacrosse. The days of just walking on a team in high school are gone.

To use Simone Biles as an example (because my daughter is into gymnastics) her family was deep in debt before the Olympics, behind on their gym fees. A lot of families can't or won't take a second mortgage to let their kids fulfill their fantasies. It's not just raw talent. It's very much pay to play.

Absolutely. I just posted above that my kid plays tennis. He is athletic but we have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on tennis. I know tennis is an expensive sport.

My friend has a daughter who is really good at gymnastics. I know they have to travel often for tournaments. Even without the training and gym costs, just the time and money to travel to these meets and tournaments will cost you thousands. You need parents with the time, money and dedication to do this.

I recently saw that tiger woods’ parents had to take a second mortgage to support his golf playing. It sure paid off.

Except for Tiger Woods' pain/medical conditions, his womanizing that broke up his nuclear family, and his risk-taking behaviors. All related to his exceptional career. He is a great athlete but also seems like a very troubled person.

Many people, not in sports, average people have affairs, medical issues and much more. One has nothing to do with the other.

PP. Disagree. His career gave him overuse injuries, made him an attractive affair/extortion target, his auto accident was in an unfamiliar high performance car loaned by the automotive company he was endorsing. Of course ordinary people have problems, but his sports capabilities also seem to have enabled most of his dysfunctional behavior.

The car was a fancy Hyundai. The car wasn’t the issue with the crash.

He was driving his sponsor's Genesis Invitational car (a car he was not used to driving because it was not his) around the time of a tournament. I don't know what kind of car snob you are, but Genesis is Hyundai's luxury brand. My point is, if he wasn't a star athlete, he wouldn't be driving this car. If he were a Hyundai employee, he might have been able to get the accident ruled work-related if he wrecked on the way to work in the company's loaned car.

Plus, it's likely that his unfamiliarity with the car caused the wreck.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/tiger-woods-crash-investigation/

My point stands. But this is off-topic. So let's quit it.

Anonymous wrote:Your post is giving me anxiety, my kids are in elementary. So are you saying that we should invest in math tutors?

DP. The US is abysmal - nationwide - at teaching math. The PISA results have shown that for years. The top math students in public or private schools probably all had outside classes from Kumon, RSM, Mathnasium, or AoPS. Sorry to bring the bad news.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted once about my friend who was pushing her daughters to play travel when her kids didn’t even want to go to rec. The parents themselves are not very athletic but wanted their kids to be athletes. Kids got cut from travel teams in elementary. You can push all you want but if your kid doesn’t like it or want to do it, s/he will not excel.

But it takes both. If the super talented kid doesn't have a ride to the tournament or practice, he's not going to get far.

This is true. I posted above that my kid likes basketball. It isn’t like in the movies where some kid just plays street ball and becomes some NBA player. Maybe this can happen somewhere with some 7 ft talented basketball kid who somehow manages to train himself.

From what I see, the talented players often have a parent or parents who were athletes themselves. They may have been high school, college or pro but the parents were some type of athlete. These kids start early. They may do some switching of sports but they all play sports from young ages. By the time they are 10-12, they are already on competitive teams whether it is basketball, soccer, tennis, baseball or lacrosse. The days of just walking on a team in high school are gone.

To use Simone Biles as an example (because my daughter is into gymnastics) her family was deep in debt before the Olympics, behind on their gym fees. A lot of families can't or won't take a second mortgage to let their kids fulfill their fantasies. It's not just raw talent. It's very much pay to play.

Absolutely. I just posted above that my kid plays tennis. He is athletic but we have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on tennis. I know tennis is an expensive sport.

My friend has a daughter who is really good at gymnastics. I know they have to travel often for tournaments. Even without the training and gym costs, just the time and money to travel to these meets and tournaments will cost you thousands. You need parents with the time, money and dedication to do this.

I recently saw that tiger woods’ parents had to take a second mortgage to support his golf playing. It sure paid off.

Except for Tiger Woods' pain/medical conditions, his womanizing that broke up his nuclear family, and his risk-taking behaviors. All related to his exceptional career. He is a great athlete but also seems like a very troubled person.

Many people, not in sports, average people have affairs, medical issues and much more. One has nothing to do with the other.

PP. Disagree. His career gave him overuse injuries, made him an attractive affair/extortion target, his auto accident was in an unfamiliar high performance car loaned by the automotive company he was endorsing. Of course ordinary people have problems, but his sports capabilities also seem to have enabled most of his dysfunctional behavior.

The car was a fancy Hyundai. The car wasn’t the issue with the crash.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

Actually sports are good for mental and physical health. Where are you getting this non-sense or is it to justify your unwillingness to parent?

They sound like they were the bitter losers and trying to knock down the athletic kids.

I was a nerdy kid who didn’t play sports. I am not bitter and have no need to knock down teen athletes on the internet.

People sign their kids up for sports and then call them athletes. Not all that impressive. That includes my youngest who plays basketball

Why are you even on this thread? You sound miserable. Feel sorry for your kid and family.

To the OP-

I think you were correct not to do travel sports, and prioritize saving money and free time.

You probably should have pushed the math prep more if you think your kid's math skills either limits their choice of career now OR their SAT prevented them from going to THEIR preferred schools. But that's hindsight. And the real reason to pay for math prep is to ensure your children have solid quantitative reasoning skills. And mainly to overcome patchy educational experiences or lack of ability.

However, your big concern about this seems to be what schools your kid got into. If they are not happy, this can still be fixed, one way or the other. I recommend you go to the college forum and strategize there. Perhaps they can be the last off the wait list or transfer. I'm from Michigan. Do you want to try my backup plan? Send your kid to University of Michigan Dearborn for freshman year. The transfer rates are decent (no guarantees) and your child can apply now. It won't work for CS but I can't think of any other transfer prohibitions. My point is...rather than regretting, maybe make a game-changing play?

If your kid is happy with their options, then you just have normal parenting regrets and don't need to be giving warnings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted once about my friend who was pushing her daughters to play travel when her kids didn’t even want to go to rec. The parents themselves are not very athletic but wanted their kids to be athletes. Kids got cut from travel teams in elementary. You can push all you want but if your kid doesn’t like it or want to do it, s/he will not excel.

But it takes both. If the super talented kid doesn't have a ride to the tournament or practice, he's not going to get far.

This is true. I posted above that my kid likes basketball. It isn’t like in the movies where some kid just plays street ball and becomes some NBA player. Maybe this can happen somewhere with some 7 ft talented basketball kid who somehow manages to train himself.

From what I see, the talented players often have a parent or parents who were athletes themselves. They may have been high school, college or pro but the parents were some type of athlete. These kids start early. They may do some switching of sports but they all play sports from young ages. By the time they are 10-12, they are already on competitive teams whether it is basketball, soccer, tennis, baseball or lacrosse. The days of just walking on a team in high school are gone.

To use Simone Biles as an example (because my daughter is into gymnastics) her family was deep in debt before the Olympics, behind on their gym fees. A lot of families can't or won't take a second mortgage to let their kids fulfill their fantasies. It's not just raw talent. It's very much pay to play.

Absolutely. I just posted above that my kid plays tennis. He is athletic but we have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on tennis. I know tennis is an expensive sport.

My friend has a daughter who is really good at gymnastics. I know they have to travel often for tournaments. Even without the training and gym costs, just the time and money to travel to these meets and tournaments will cost you thousands. You need parents with the time, money and dedication to do this.

I recently saw that tiger woods’ parents had to take a second mortgage to support his golf playing. It sure paid off.

Except for Tiger Woods' pain/medical conditions, his womanizing that broke up his nuclear family, and his risk-taking behaviors. All related to his exceptional career. He is a great athlete but also seems like a very troubled person.

Many people, not in sports, average people have affairs, medical issues and much more. One has nothing to do with the other.

PP. Disagree. His career gave him overuse injuries, made him an attractive affair/extortion target, his auto accident was in an unfamiliar high performance car loaned by the automotive company he was endorsing. Of course ordinary people have problems, but his sports capabilities also seem to have enabled most of his dysfunctional behavior.

My take is that OP is realizing that she unwittingly limited her children’s options with “good enough”. That doesn’t mean that she feels like they are failures, or that they are or will be unhappy.

It’s just that they didn’t have the options that she thought they would have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all about inner drive. Full stop.
Beyond that, if you do happen to have a genuinely driven kid it is a parents' core responsibility to support them in time, money and encouragement to fulfill their potential.

Rationalize as many do, but any parent who does not do so has seriously done a disservice to their child.

My husband loves tennis. He never had formal tennis lessons. He did make his high school tennis team. He would never make the team around here but back in the early nineties, being athletic and able to hit a tennis ball was enough.

My kids have played tennis since preschool. They played daily during Covid. We have the resources to provide them with the right coaching. A kid who is playing for fun has no chance against my kid who has played almost every day since being able to hold a racquet.

And who really cares? The commodification of sports/intense focus on success in sports as the end is doing more harm than good for your kids. They're burning out, getting injured, suffering mental health, and parents are overspending chasing the delusion that they can mold their kid into an athlete when the ultimate goal should be enjoying the process of sports. Your unathletic but well coached tennis player is not going to play in the U.S. Open and it's weird and unhinged to compare him to a casual for parental bragging rights

Truth right here

Actually sports are good for mental and physical health. Where are you getting this non-sense or is it to justify your unwillingness to parent?

They sound like they were the bitter losers and trying to knock down the athletic kids.

I was a nerdy kid who didn’t play sports. I am not bitter and have no need to knock down teen athletes on the internet.

People sign their kids up for sports and then call them athletes. Not all that impressive. That includes my youngest who plays basketball

Anonymous wrote:I don’t agree with continually pushing kids if they have zero desire to do something. But I also don’t buy into the attitude of let the kids do whatever, because talented or smart kids just find a way.

I am a smart, talented kid who wasn’t pushed. I never tried an array of sports, and once we got a piano teacher we stuck with her until we moved to another based on schedule or family friends. I loved reading and writing but was never encouraged to write.
.”

Back before activities became big business, kids who loved sports found a way to play it. When lakes were frozen they were there with their pucks and sticks. Basketball courts were full almost 24/7 with pick up games or kids just practicing. Football, lacrosse played in fields.

They didn’t need adults to push them. By middle school the talented ones, the ones with potential stood out. They played varsity and then some played college and then very few played professional. My brother varsity football, lacrosse then div 2 college. No outside teams back then. My cousins same thing one went professional.

Times have changed. Don’t blame your parents. You didn’t have the drive to pursue what you loved. Gym classes in school introduced students to an array of sports.