Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Agree. The PPP was tabulating in-state schools in the T150 per high school senior, but what OP is focused on is in-state seats in the T75 per high school senior. Those are the kids for whom the landscape in Virginia looks crummy: qualified Virginia residents who could get into many T75 state schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in Virginia) and many Virginia schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in the T100). Those kids and their families are forced to make a significant trade off on price or ranking, all while being told that there is no trade off.

OP here.

You are exactly right.

As I had shown above, the total enrollment for three top schools is less than 55,000 and one third of them are OOS kids.

Too many NOVA kids who would easily get in state flagship in other states are forced to accept less desirable choices or look for OOS options.

I really don’t know why they don’t increase the enrollment faster and limit the OOS admission.

Instead people just repeat the same mantra:

Virginians are so blessed with so many choices.

Does UVA and W&M admissions have a different set of admissions criteria depending on your VA zip code or county on the application?

I know people say "it's easier to get in if you're from RoVA" but how does it actually work in practice?

For example, someone whose parents live in a rural part of VA but they actually go to a tony and expensive boarding school - are they getting the "RoVA" bump?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

uh, Calfornia hasnt' been 3.9 million residents since I grew up there a LONG LONG time ago. California has 10 x that number of residents. 38.9 million
California is the most populated U.S. state, with an estimated population of 38.9 million as of 2023. It has people from a wide variety of ethnic, racial, national, and religious backgrounds.

Didn't take much arithmetic in elementary school, did you? 3.59 million per school means they divided 38.9 by 11.

uh, can you respond in a way that actually elucidates the problem? Insults don't help. Cal is almost 50M in population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Agree. The PPP was tabulating in-state schools in the T150 per high school senior, but what OP is focused on is in-state seats in the T75 per high school senior. Those are the kids for whom the landscape in Virginia looks crummy: qualified Virginia residents who could get into many T75 state schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in Virginia) and many Virginia schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in the T100). Those kids and their families are forced to make a significant trade off on price or ranking, all while being told that there is no trade off.

OP here.

You are exactly right.

As I had shown above, the total enrollment for three top schools is less than 55,000 and one third of them are OOS kids.

Too many NOVA kids who would easily get in state flagship in other states are forced to accept less desirable choices or look for OOS options.

I really don’t know why they don’t increase the enrollment faster and limit the OOS admission.

Instead people just repeat the same mantra:

Virginians are so blessed with so many choices.

Does UVA and W&M admissions have a different set of admissions criteria depending on your VA zip code or county on the application?

I know people say "it's easier to get in if you're from RoVA" but how does it actually work in practice?

For example, someone whose parents live in a rural part of VA but they actually go to a tony and expensive boarding school - are they getting the "RoVA" bump?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

uh, Calfornia hasnt' been 3.9 million residents since I grew up there a LONG LONG time ago. California has 10 x that number of residents. 38.9 million
California is the most populated U.S. state, with an estimated population of 38.9 million as of 2023. It has people from a wide variety of ethnic, racial, national, and religious backgrounds.

Didn't take much arithmetic in elementary school, did you? 3.59 million per school means they divided 38.9 by 11.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

uh, Calfornia hasnt' been 3.9 million residents since I grew up there a LONG LONG time ago. California has 10 x that number of residents. 38.9 million
California is the most populated U.S. state, with an estimated population of 38.9 million as of 2023. It has people from a wide variety of ethnic, racial, national, and religious backgrounds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Agree. The PPP was tabulating in-state schools in the T150 per high school senior, but what OP is focused on is in-state seats in the T75 per high school senior. Those are the kids for whom the landscape in Virginia looks crummy: qualified Virginia residents who could get into many T75 state schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in Virginia) and many Virginia schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in the T100). Those kids and their families are forced to make a significant trade off on price or ranking, all while being told that there is no trade off.

OP here.

You are exactly right.

As I had shown above, the total enrollment for three top schools is less than 55,000 and one third of them are OOS kids.

Too many NOVA kids who would easily get in state flagship in other states are forced to accept less desirable choices or look for OOS options.

I really don’t know why they don’t increase the enrollment faster and limit the OOS admission.

Instead people just repeat the same mantra:

Virginians are so blessed with so many choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Based on size, VT is the commonwealth "state" school equivalent of the large universities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Agree. The PPP was tabulating in-state schools in the T150 per high school senior, but what OP is focused on is in-state seats in the T75 per high school senior. Those are the kids for whom the landscape in Virginia looks crummy: qualified Virginia residents who could get into many T75 state schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in Virginia) and many Virginia schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in the T100). Those kids and their families are forced to make a significant trade off on price or ranking, all while being told that there is no trade off.

OP here.

You are exactly right.

As I had shown above, the total enrollment for three top schools is less than 55,000 and one third of them are OOS kids.

Too many NOVA kids who would easily get in state flagship in other states are forced to accept less desirable choices or look for OOS options.

I really don’t know why they don’t increase the enrollment faster and limit the OOS admission.

Instead people just repeat the same mantra:

Virginians are so blessed with so many choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Maybe the OOS acceptance rate is higher for VT and JMU because the OOS kids who *are* applying have higher stats on average than the in-state kids. Is that a possibllity?

It's a possibility. But more likely is that if they want X out of state students to enroll, they know the yield will be much lower, so they have to admit more to achieve that. I'm no longer in VA, and I can tell you JMU and even VT are not on kid's lists for OOS schools. They are not a UMich or UWisconsin. So I suspect they may be safety/give it a whirl school choices for some in case they dont' get into something better.

Tell that to all the OOS parents on the FB pages of both those schools.
DP

I'm sure most of the OOS students at JMU and VaTech are all very excited to be there. They picked a school that's a great fit for THEIR kid.


However, I'm not in DCUM area anymore, and nobody applies to either of those, whereas I personally know 4 OOS attending UWisconsin and 2 attending UMich, from my kid's friends group and family. And there were several more who got in but chose elsewhere at the HS. Those two are extremely popular for Top State Flagships for OOS students.

Well.. UMich is close to T20 territory and is T20 for pretty much all academic departments. Wisconsin, while a tier below, is a robust, full-fledged state school and has been in that neighborhood for a while. Tech is just climbing into the T50 zone, that too thanks to some USNews woke math. JMU is a T100 at best. Can't compare.

From an experience perspective, can't beat the first two. From a salary outcomes perspective, the last 3 should be comparable.

Do people really choose where to go to college based on salary outcomes?

They think they do and it's ridiculous. So if the "outcome" are teachers and social workers and therapists and police officers, then they failed? If this is the case our society is doomed.

Cut your BS. You can become a social worker after attending in-state college or Nova. OTOH, if you pay full fare to go to Harvard with the intention of becoming a social worker.. well, you may make the cut at the "A fool and his money.." audition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Agree. The PPP was tabulating in-state schools in the T150 per high school senior, but what OP is focused on is in-state seats in the T75 per high school senior. Those are the kids for whom the landscape in Virginia looks crummy: qualified Virginia residents who could get into many T75 state schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in Virginia) and many Virginia schools (but, because they live in NoVa, not the ones in the T100). Those kids and their families are forced to make a significant trade off on price or ranking, all while being told that there is no trade off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

But what about the size of school?

Undergraduate Enrollment

W&M: 6800
UVA: 17,500
VT: 30,400

Total: 54,700

Arizona State: 65,500
Arizona: 40,400

Michigan: 33,700
MSU: 39,200

IU: 35,600
Purdue: 38,000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Four good or great public options in the state is pretty impressive really. Certainly better than Maryland, NYS or Mass.

Number of public colleges in USNWR Top 100:
CA - 9
FL - 4
NJ - 4
NY - 3
VA - 3
PA - 3

Now do it per capita because on state on your list is a lot smaller than the rest

Yes, per capita is a better way to look at it - I agree. I've expanded to top 150 with a minimum of two schools per state. Per capita is in the parentheses - lower is better. This is based on 2020 census numbers, so I have not adjusted for population under age 35. That may be a better way to examine it.

Number of public colleges/universities in USNWR Top 150:
CA - 11 (1 school per 3.59M residents)
VA - 6 (1.44M)
NY - 6 (3.37M)
FL - 6 (3.59M)
TX - 4 (7.29M)
NJ - 4 (2.32M)
PA - 3 (4.33M)
OH - 3 (3.93M)
IA - 2 (1.60M)
OR - 2 (2.12M)
AZ - 2 (3.58M)
IN - 2 (3.39M)
MD - 2 (3.09M)
MI - 2 (5.04M)
GA - 2 (5.36M)
NC - 2 (5.22M)
IL - 2 (6.41M)
CO - 2 (2.89M)
SC - 2 (2.56M)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again.

Not sure why so many people were triggered but let me try to clarify:

(1) I didn’t say Virginia doesn’t have many options. I said it doesn’t have many *good* options. How to define a “good” school is subjective. I personally think UVa, W&M, UMCP, and VT are good or great. JMU, GMU, and UMBC are just OK.

(2) An option is not really an option if you cannot choose it. UVa and W&M are extremely selective. VT, a land grant school, became very selective for popular majors.

And VT prefers the OOS kids, which makes things worse. Look at the acceptance rate:

VT in-state: 50%
VT OOS: 63%

This is same for JMU. Very easy admission for OOS kids.

JMU in-state: 71%
JMU OOS: 87%

So I think it’s very possible that many good students who would get in a big state school such as Michigan State or Pitt/PSU didn’t get in VT only because they live in Northern Virginia. (Also kids who would get in a second tier public school such as Temple may not get in JMU)

I am sure some people already knew that the college options in Virginia are not that great any more. Let’s just accept the reality.

Maybe the OOS acceptance rate is higher for VT and JMU because the OOS kids who *are* applying have higher stats on average than the in-state kids. Is that a possibllity?

It's a possibility. But more likely is that if they want X out of state students to enroll, they know the yield will be much lower, so they have to admit more to achieve that. I'm no longer in VA, and I can tell you JMU and even VT are not on kid's lists for OOS schools. They are not a UMich or UWisconsin. So I suspect they may be safety/give it a whirl school choices for some in case they dont' get into something better.

Tell that to all the OOS parents on the FB pages of both those schools.
DP

I'm sure most of the OOS students at JMU and VaTech are all very excited to be there. They picked a school that's a great fit for THEIR kid.


However, I'm not in DCUM area anymore, and nobody applies to either of those, whereas I personally know 4 OOS attending UWisconsin and 2 attending UMich, from my kid's friends group and family. And there were several more who got in but chose elsewhere at the HS. Those two are extremely popular for Top State Flagships for OOS students.

Well.. UMich is close to T20 territory and is T20 for pretty much all academic departments. Wisconsin, while a tier below, is a robust, full-fledged state school and has been in that neighborhood for a while. Tech is just climbing into the T50 zone, that too thanks to some USNews woke math. JMU is a T100 at best. Can't compare.

From an experience perspective, can't beat the first two. From a salary outcomes perspective, the last 3 should be comparable.

Do people really choose where to go to college based on salary outcomes?

They think they do and it's ridiculous. So if the "outcome" are teachers and social workers and therapists and police officers, then they failed? If this is the case our society is doomed.