Anonymous wrote:A dilation & curettage procedure to remove a miscarried fetus is not an abortion as the baby already died. Removing a live or dead baby using this method is radically different as one kills a human being. This is a common practice after miscarriage that is moral to do.

Miscarriage is what she had.

The medical term for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. When women have a D&C, it’s because of an incomplete spontaneous abortion. Abortion is outlawed, even if you call it a D&C. And BTW, the teen slut who comes in for an abortion of an unwanted baby also gets a D&C. Words matter.


I had two live births, an early miscarriage that did not require intervention and a an abortion to remove an ectopic pregnancy- where the heart was beating as the tube ruptured and I hemorrhages internally. The last thing I remember is a surgeon sprinting at full speed at midnight as I passed out. Lost the tube. Almost died. My gyn records say 2 live births, 1 miscarriage, 1 abortion. OTOH, my Cataholic mother insists surgical removal of an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion. But many Catholic hospitals refused to perform the procedure or prescribe medication to terminate an ectopic pregnancy— even beforeoDobbs. These hospitals compnsider them to be abortions.

It’s a confusing mess.

The ONLY exception in Arkansas is to save the life of the mother.

https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-arkansas

Fetal demise or inevitable death are NOT allowable exceptions. Jesse said the heart had stopped, but she had minimal bleeding and there was no mention of sepsis. She should have had to remain pregnant and trst in God’s plan for her, until she had a spontaneous miscarriage or her life was in imminent danger because of hemorrhage or sepsis. Yep, hosting a dead fetus sucks, BUT THIS IS WHAT SHE AND HER FAMILY VOTED FOR. Arkansas could have broadened the law to make it more compassionate and less dangerous for women, and they decided not to. It’s not one standard for Jesse and another for a black teen carrying a dead fetus.

As my Catholic mother wold say, “offer it up” Not because I’m a monster, but because she should be held to the same standard as every other woman in her state. I think she should be arrested and tried, along with the doctors and he spouse and and parents who helped her procure an abortion. She would never end up in jail, and I don’t think she should. But hopefully, more care would be taken in drafting these laws so that the exceptions are clear and there is a very high burden of proof and women and doctors have some latitude in situations like Jessas.

As one commentator said, she could never have gone that abortion if she want famous. But, that hurts every woman who isn’t famous. Jesse’s ability to bait when her life isn’t in danger makes every other woman in Arkansas think that option would be available for them too.

I’m an Administrative Lawyer who deals with reams of medical records. I used to work for municipal entities. And there have been a lot of articles about how hospital attorneys, physical attorneys, municipal attorney and/or prosecutors are making these life and death decisions. Because there is no guidance as to how close to death a woman needs to be to qualify for an abortion. Jessa adidn’t qualify, when she had her abortion, because she could have waited and had the fetus deliver spontaneously. But if she started bleeding regularly, how much blood loss puts her life in danger. Infection can be treated with antibiotics. How bad does the infection need to be? How sick to we have to let healthy women become before we perform a procedure that’s always was going to need to be done. Right now, Lawyers are making these decisions in many cases because the laws are vague and physicians don’t want to risk jail and losing their license.

If all hell is breaking loose in an emergency situation, you really want Doctor’s standing around, while a lawyer reads the medical records, maybe consults with a colleague, and writes a rationale, to make sure everything is properly documented. Because you need more than a life threatening emergency. You need the tests and imaging and rationale and documentation to be airtight before the procedure. Meanwhile, there is a woman dying.

The current laws are a disaster in many states. You can be in for sub standard care simply for being pregnant in the wrong state.

It should be noted that this politically active forced birther publicly trolled Chrissy Teigen for getting the same procedure.

Not only that but it doesn’t seem that Jessa had to wait the 72 hours nor did she have the counseling.

All for an embryo that was still very much alive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

I think the laws were based on “increasing the white supply of infants.”

I still can’t believe that was said by a sitting scotus Justice

I hate this timeline

Blame “the moderates.” They voted for this garbage and they’re still both sides-ing stuff.

Get bent. Blame the right-wing. But if you need to blame someone else, go ahead and also blame the people on the left who were too pure for neoliberalism or whatever.

No, I will not “get bent.” And what the heck are you blaming the left for being “too pure for neoliberalism or whatever”? Are you blaming the left for… the GOP lying? The GOP blocking laws? The GOP doing end runs on what people want?, and if you need a contemporary example of that, look no further than Kansas’s forced birth moves despite the forced birth position being soundly defeated at the ballot just last year. What kinds of compromise should women have to make for you to blame the actual guilty parties?

I will blame “the moderates” who consistently vote for the GOP. How they can consider themselves “moderate” when they pretty much vote for the GOP is a topic for another day, but “the moderates” excuse this garbage. Kind of like you’re doing right now. The GOP is not being subtle. They have commit treason, sedition, they advocate for what amounts to censorship and are openly attempting to establish a theocracy and still people - like you? - vote for them because “the people on the left who were too pure.” That tracks. “The moderates” are wreaking havoc on this country. The right wing doesn’t have the numbers without “the moderates.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

I think the laws were based on “increasing the white supply of infants.”

I still can’t believe that was said by a sitting scotus Justice

I hate this timeline

Blame “the moderates.” They voted for this garbage and they’re still both sides-ing stuff.

Get bent. Blame the right-wing. But if you need to blame someone else, go ahead and also blame the people on the left who were too pure for neoliberalism or whatever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

I think the laws were based on “increasing the white supply of infants.”

I still can’t believe that was said by a sitting scotus Justice

I hate this timeline

That line was just in a footnote. but Alito did write on Page 34 of the draft opinion that “a woman who puts her newborn up for adoption today has little reason to fear that the baby will not find a suitable home.” Which is completely irrelevant to the fact that reproductive decision belong to the woman alone and the fight is on to return this right to all of out daughters. They do not need to exercise it but they must hold it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

I think the laws were based on “increasing the white supply of infants.”

I still can’t believe that was said by a sitting scotus Justice

I hate this timeline

Blame “the moderates.” They voted for this garbage and they’re still both sides-ing stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

I think the laws were based on “increasing the white supply of infants.”

I still can’t believe that was said by a sitting scotus Justice

I hate this timeline

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

I think the laws were based on “increasing the white supply of infants.”

Anonymous wrote:If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

They know. The GOP debate style is built on trolling.

If you think that the laws passed by states and the determination that women don't have the reproductive rights recognized by Roe weren't a function of religious people declaring that babies have souls at conception, then you're not very perceptive.

^^^ you are misreading my reply wrong on purpose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, people can have whatever religious beliefs for themselves that they wish. Are some of them bizarre? Yup.

But no religion gets to claim their beliefs as the ones everyone has to live by.

And when it comes down to it, this entire debate boils down to what you BELIEVE (which is 99.9% a religious belief)

And those who do NOT believe the same are being forced to live under religious laws they do not subscribe to.

No, SCOTUS said states can decide about abortion. No states made any religious laws about abortion.

you are misreading my post on purpose

Anonymous wrote:I mean, people can have whatever religious beliefs for themselves that they wish. Are some of them bizarre? Yup.

But no religion gets to claim their beliefs as the ones everyone has to live by.

And when it comes down to it, this entire debate boils down to what you BELIEVE (which is 99.9% a religious belief)

And those who do NOT believe the same are being forced to live under religious laws they do not subscribe to.

No, SCOTUS said states can decide about abortion. No states made any religious laws about abortion.

I mean, people can have whatever religious beliefs for themselves that they wish. Are some of them bizarre? Yup.

But no religion gets to claim their beliefs as the ones everyone has to live by.

And when it comes down to it, this entire debate boils down to what you BELIEVE (which is 99.9% a religious belief)

And those who do NOT believe the same are being forced to live under religious laws they do not subscribe to.