Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love is not enough. Never has been, never will be. Its more like the entry level requirement.

Love is not a noun, it is a verb.

Wrong. You can choose to respect someone. Love is either there or not. People confuse the two.

Anonymous wrote:Love is not enough. Never has been, never will be. Its more like the entry level requirement.

Love is not a noun, it is a verb.

Anonymous wrote:Love is not enough. Never has been, never will be. Its more like the entry level requirement.

What else makes it enough then?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many men and women make too many excuses for being overweight, obese, and out of shape. Fat acceptance is a bizarre Orwellian concept that characterizes the dystopian nature of many womens attitudes towards their obligation to remain fit sexy and attractive for their partners.

Being fat lazy and out of shape makes you a terrible marital partner.

That society thinks 50 year old woman need to look like they did in their 20s. Women used to be able to age and grandmothers weren’t sexy. Now women are made to feel like failures if they don’t weigh the same at 50 as they did at 25. Life was so much better when it was socially acceptable to age and be matronly.

+1 We were watching The Godfather recently and it was striking how all of the older mothers were portly, enjoying pasta, and wearing dresses with graying hair. It is so sad that we now require women look hot (!) and sexually available into their 60s and beyond. Americans are oversexed.

Totally. Also, who is horny when they have grown kids and are menopausal? Having sex all the time is for young and fertile woman. I enjoy it still in my mid 40s, but I don't care about it like I did from about age 16-30. That is just biology... So tired of hearing about how we need to look hot and feel aroused all the time. Um--my body cannot make a baby so it doesn't tell me to have sex a lot. (I actually am pretty hot but these societal pressures are ridiculous and watching women get all these procedures that make them look like old women trying to look young is just plain sad).

Lady I’m 52 and still fertile (or at least still menstruating) and think about sex constantly.

Same and the thought of not having that desire and release makes me so sad

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Not saying it does, but PP said her parents had no friends, no family, no love, no nothing. Being a generally miserable person has nothing to do with marriage. There are just as many people in the world who are miserable and single. Maybe they decided it’s better to be miserable together than miserable alone? In which case, you can’t deny that there is a level of perserverance and commitment to another person there that a miserable single person does not have. Plus, they raised children together which involves *some* level of sacrifice. Nobody’s perfect!

Yep agree they just sound miserable and would be miserable no matter what . If you’re married and don’t like each other but want to stay for money and other reasons, why not just pursue your own hobbies and friends? There are lots of older couples I know of that do things like go on trips separately, have separate friends, belong to lots of clubs without their spouse (ladies’ clubs, volunteer groups, etc). Why not just spend the majority of your time cultivating an interesting life of your own?

Because people are flawed and we disrespect people we don't care about. This all sounds lovely till you find out you aren't coming home to a kind roommate situation but a sulking person who blames their life on you. This is why it doesn't work. You can't usually just switch off from married life to roommate life.

DP.

This has nothing to do with married life or single life.

Whether you are in a happy marriage or not, you need to have a separate identity. You need hobbies, passions, friends l, community outside of your spouse

If you don't have these, you are a loser even if your marriage is happy. Marriage is not life. It's a small part of it. You can still suck at most if it and be happily married. These parents sucked at most of life and were not happily married.

You are missing my point. People think if you are not happy in a relationship that you can just stay there in a home and do your own thing and somehow not be abused. I'm saying that people who don't like each other will abuse each other either intentionally or unintentionally so this idea that you can just stay in a situation with someone as if they are a neutral person to you if they don't actually like you won't work out long term. You will grow unhappier just staying and trying to ignore the person because of the negative charge between you. Whereas with a roommate situation there is little charge towards the other person positive or negative so those situations work better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Not saying it does, but PP said her parents had no friends, no family, no love, no nothing. Being a generally miserable person has nothing to do with marriage. There are just as many people in the world who are miserable and single. Maybe they decided it’s better to be miserable together than miserable alone? In which case, you can’t deny that there is a level of perserverance and commitment to another person there that a miserable single person does not have. Plus, they raised children together which involves *some* level of sacrifice. Nobody’s perfect!

There is no point to marriage without love. People who stay married just to stay married are failures. It is far better to model a healthy divorce where to parents are happy.

Love is not enough. Never has been, never will be. Its more like the entry level requirement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Not saying it does, but PP said her parents had no friends, no family, no love, no nothing. Being a generally miserable person has nothing to do with marriage. There are just as many people in the world who are miserable and single. Maybe they decided it’s better to be miserable together than miserable alone? In which case, you can’t deny that there is a level of perserverance and commitment to another person there that a miserable single person does not have. Plus, they raised children together which involves *some* level of sacrifice. Nobody’s perfect!

Yep agree they just sound miserable and would be miserable no matter what . If you’re married and don’t like each other but want to stay for money and other reasons, why not just pursue your own hobbies and friends? There are lots of older couples I know of that do things like go on trips separately, have separate friends, belong to lots of clubs without their spouse (ladies’ clubs, volunteer groups, etc). Why not just spend the majority of your time cultivating an interesting life of your own?

Because people are flawed and we disrespect people we don't care about. This all sounds lovely till you find out you aren't coming home to a kind roommate situation but a sulking person who blames their life on you. This is why it doesn't work. You can't usually just switch off from married life to roommate life.

DP.

This has nothing to do with married life or single life.

Whether you are in a happy marriage or not, you need to have a separate identity. You need hobbies, passions, friends l, community outside of your spouse

If you don't have these, you are a loser even if your marriage is happy. Marriage is not life. It's a small part of it. You can still suck at most if it and be happily married. These parents sucked at most of life and were not happily married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Not saying it does, but PP said her parents had no friends, no family, no love, no nothing. Being a generally miserable person has nothing to do with marriage. There are just as many people in the world who are miserable and single. Maybe they decided it’s better to be miserable together than miserable alone? In which case, you can’t deny that there is a level of perserverance and commitment to another person there that a miserable single person does not have. Plus, they raised children together which involves *some* level of sacrifice. Nobody’s perfect!

Yep agree they just sound miserable and would be miserable no matter what . If you’re married and don’t like each other but want to stay for money and other reasons, why not just pursue your own hobbies and friends? There are lots of older couples I know of that do things like go on trips separately, have separate friends, belong to lots of clubs without their spouse (ladies’ clubs, volunteer groups, etc). Why not just spend the majority of your time cultivating an interesting life of your own?

Because people are flawed and we disrespect people we don't care about. This all sounds lovely till you find out you aren't coming home to a kind roommate situation but a sulking person who blames their life on you. This is why it doesn't work. You can't usually just switch off from married life to roommate life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Not saying it does, but PP said her parents had no friends, no family, no love, no nothing. Being a generally miserable person has nothing to do with marriage. There are just as many people in the world who are miserable and single. Maybe they decided it’s better to be miserable together than miserable alone? In which case, you can’t deny that there is a level of perserverance and commitment to another person there that a miserable single person does not have. Plus, they raised children together which involves *some* level of sacrifice. Nobody’s perfect!

Yep agree they just sound miserable and would be miserable no matter what . If you’re married and don’t like each other but want to stay for money and other reasons, why not just pursue your own hobbies and friends? There are lots of older couples I know of that do things like go on trips separately, have separate friends, belong to lots of clubs without their spouse (ladies’ clubs, volunteer groups, etc). Why not just spend the majority of your time cultivating an interesting life of your own?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Not saying it does, but PP said her parents had no friends, no family, no love, no nothing. Being a generally miserable person has nothing to do with marriage. There are just as many people in the world who are miserable and single. Maybe they decided it’s better to be miserable together than miserable alone? In which case, you can’t deny that there is a level of perserverance and commitment to another person there that a miserable single person does not have. Plus, they raised children together which involves *some* level of sacrifice. Nobody’s perfect!

IME, the majority of people I’ve known who crow that they are doing non-monogamy “responsibly” are actually very clearly doing that within a relationship where it’s pretty obvious the person with whom they’re “negotiating non-monogamy” with isn‘t happy but just doesn’t have enough power to say no or to be able negotiate for their needs.

Yeah I kept giving in to her bullshit (to a degree) because I didn't want our kids to have to deal with a divorce. That was the leverage.

Now it's likely happening anyway.

Should've thrown in the towel a lot sooner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

You clearly know nothing about marriage. My parents have been miserable for 50 years and I can barely stand to be around them, but hey, they’re married. In my opinion they both wasted their lives.

So life is all about being happily married? Do they have friends, careers, extended family, volunteer positions?

You are such a narrow minded person.

Actually, no, they don't have those things. My dad had a career. The rest? No. They don't have friends, they are not close to their families, they don't volunteer. There is literally nothing there. They did not build anything. They are two people who hate each other who barely speak in the same house.

I ended up in a similar marriage. Thank God, I got divorced.

Marriage does not equal success. Only a quality marriage is successful.

Ummmm it sounds like your parents, and you and your DH, were major losers who had huge issues unrelated to marriage. Although to their credit, rather than being single losers alone and no one ever living to tell the story, your parents managed to sustain a marriage for 50 years which is no minor feat. Sounds like the better outcome, all things considered.

NP. I think staying married where you aren’t kind to each other and don’t enjoy each other’s company is a failure. My parents were like this too. Pretty sure they stayed together for us kids and then because it was too late and too much of a hassle to do anything else. It was a bad model for me. Passive aggression and apathy. Being single doesn’t make you a loser, being stuck in an awful marriage might. It’s such a waste of a life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look more highly upon married people than unmarried ones. Bonus points for length of marriage. It just signals maturity.


I am a young childless woman BTW.

I would add happy to this because then to me they are living authentically. My ex’s dad cheated on his wife with men and was gay and she stayed because it was the norm. Of course I didn’t find this out till 20 years later. My ex secretly brought men into the house for sex and abused our money as well and I divorced. My oldest is gay and dating a man as a young adult who he wants to marry. It’s the same reason a marriage to a woman didn’t work for all three. Just different outcome.

I wouldn’t call the relationships you and your mother had marriages. I don’t think a marriage needs to be happy, but it needs to be based on the truth. If you were deceived or tricked into a marriage, that isn’t really a marriage.

It was his mother who stayed married to the gay dad. Yes it’s not a real marriage in the loving sexual sense but I think a lot of marriages in the past were not truly honest fulfilling marriages which is what my point was. Not everyone is cut out to be a good husband and father and wife and mother and get along well. I think people just used to stay in bad marriages more.

It is so sad that we now require women look hot (!) and sexually available into their 60s and beyond.

Require?