Anonymous
02/11/2023 11:36
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
My experience in the home buying process was that the agents and even some neighbors made me doubt my own eyes and ears and official reports. I felt guilt for asking and I felt that I was somehow weak for thinking it. And that Sunday pm traffic is an indicator of nothing compared to a weekday. But Monday morning made me snap out of it. And to be honest, the dishonesty is making me a bit angry. There was only one very honest homeowner in that whole period.
Anonymous
02/11/2023 11:31
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
I’m counting 4 open houses right under the flight path tomorrow. Let us know if you end up going and how what you heard/were told is factoring in your decision. How informed do you feel in your home buying process?
Anonymous
02/11/2023 11:28
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Let’s do a little experiment for all of those claiming all the buyers must have known. Go to any of the open houses in the Palisades and report back. Ask about the flight path, note what the agent says, also count the plane frequency.
My $$$ is on the agent gaslighting you and/or putting you down for asking and on planes not being bad at all. Come Mon, Tue am, a totally different story.
People are not sufficiently and fairly informed
My $$$ is on the agent gaslighting you and/or putting you down for asking and on planes not being bad at all. Come Mon, Tue am, a totally different story.
People are not sufficiently and fairly informed
Anonymous
02/11/2023 11:07
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Read the comments here too:
https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-administration-reagan-national-overflights
The airplane noise is so constant and so loud that it is driving us insane. We are interrupted constantly indoors and outdoors. We are awakened every morning before 6am, and we fall asleep to the roar of airplanes too.
I cannot get rid of a cough that makes my life miserable and my doctor told me that is caused by pollution, so there is only two choices either they cut the flights over my place or we, as neighbors victims, will start a class action
Planes in and out of Reagan National fly down my street and over my house at low altitudes (I can see the tail colors) all day, from 5am until 11pm. For several hours of the day, the frequency is every 20 seconds. They are so loud as to interrupt conversation outside, and I can often smell the jet fuel. Our air quality is suffering and not being adequately monitored.
And many more.
The bolded is my favorite. Yes, the only options are cutting the planes (to where?!) or a class action (asking for what?). Just move!
Your smugness is revolting. How do you know if moving is an option for the poster.
You are so smart and made a great decision about your house location. You are controlling 1 over 100000000 factors that affect your health. Good luck!
Please give an example of circumstances where a homeowner in the impacted area cannot move anywhere else.
Please share your solution that magically moves the airplane path away from Palisades. It has to be viable and realistic.
Anonymous
02/11/2023 10:59
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Read the comments here too:
https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-administration-reagan-national-overflights
The airplane noise is so constant and so loud that it is driving us insane. We are interrupted constantly indoors and outdoors. We are awakened every morning before 6am, and we fall asleep to the roar of airplanes too.
I cannot get rid of a cough that makes my life miserable and my doctor told me that is caused by pollution, so there is only two choices either they cut the flights over my place or we, as neighbors victims, will start a class action
Planes in and out of Reagan National fly down my street and over my house at low altitudes (I can see the tail colors) all day, from 5am until 11pm. For several hours of the day, the frequency is every 20 seconds. They are so loud as to interrupt conversation outside, and I can often smell the jet fuel. Our air quality is suffering and not being adequately monitored.
And many more.
The bolded is my favorite. Yes, the only options are cutting the planes (to where?!) or a class action (asking for what?). Just move!
Your smugness is revolting. How do you know if moving is an option for the poster.
You are so smart and made a great decision about your house location. You are controlling 1 over 100000000 factors that affect your health. Good luck!
Anonymous
02/11/2023 10:47
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Anonymous wrote:Read the comments here too:
https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-administration-reagan-national-overflights
The airplane noise is so constant and so loud that it is driving us insane. We are interrupted constantly indoors and outdoors. We are awakened every morning before 6am, and we fall asleep to the roar of airplanes too.
I cannot get rid of a cough that makes my life miserable and my doctor told me that is caused by pollution, so there is only two choices either they cut the flights over my place or we, as neighbors victims, will start a class action
Planes in and out of Reagan National fly down my street and over my house at low altitudes (I can see the tail colors) all day, from 5am until 11pm. For several hours of the day, the frequency is every 20 seconds. They are so loud as to interrupt conversation outside, and I can often smell the jet fuel. Our air quality is suffering and not being adequately monitored.
And many more.
The bolded is my favorite. Yes, the only options are cutting the planes (to where?!) or a class action (asking for what?). Just move!
Anonymous
02/11/2023 10:36
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Anonymous wrote:Fair, but should this be a merely self-serving action? I would support mandatory disclosures. If DC has to buy the properties under the flight path, instead of the next tricked buyer, things will change fast.
If it's actually as bad as you say, wouldn't the buyer easily notice it while touring the house?
We're in Potomac near the river and it's really not a big deal. Can't hear the planes at all inside. We notice them outside, but they are fairly high by the time they get to us. I'm occasionally at the park in Palisades near the river and they are definitely quite loud there. I'd be annoyed if I lived there, but there's no way I would have missed it while house shopping either.
Anonymous
02/11/2023 07:33
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
I'm in the 'its not a big deal' camp as a resident of glen echo. I have never been woken up by the airplane noise and am curious if those who have are sleeping with windows open or just really light sleepers. I can't hear the planes from my bed if I tried. genuinely confused.
Anonymous
02/11/2023 05:54
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Nobody is forced to live under a flight path. Furthermore , the needs of the many (airport serving 20+ million passengers annually) outweigh the needs of a few (airplane noise in Palisades).
Don’t like the noise? Then move. There are plenty of other affluent neighborhoods where airplane noise is a non-issue.
Don’t like the noise? Then move. There are plenty of other affluent neighborhoods where airplane noise is a non-issue.
Anonymous
02/11/2023 05:24
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Read the comments here too:
https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-administration-reagan-national-overflights
The airplane noise is so constant and so loud that it is driving us insane. We are interrupted constantly indoors and outdoors. We are awakened every morning before 6am, and we fall asleep to the roar of airplanes too.
I cannot get rid of a cough that makes my life miserable and my doctor told me that is caused by pollution, so there is only two choices either they cut the flights over my place or we, as neighbors victims, will start a class action
Planes in and out of Reagan National fly down my street and over my house at low altitudes (I can see the tail colors) all day, from 5am until 11pm. For several hours of the day, the frequency is every 20 seconds. They are so loud as to interrupt conversation outside, and I can often smell the jet fuel. Our air quality is suffering and not being adequately monitored.
And many more.
https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-administration-reagan-national-overflights
The airplane noise is so constant and so loud that it is driving us insane. We are interrupted constantly indoors and outdoors. We are awakened every morning before 6am, and we fall asleep to the roar of airplanes too.
I cannot get rid of a cough that makes my life miserable and my doctor told me that is caused by pollution, so there is only two choices either they cut the flights over my place or we, as neighbors victims, will start a class action
Planes in and out of Reagan National fly down my street and over my house at low altitudes (I can see the tail colors) all day, from 5am until 11pm. For several hours of the day, the frequency is every 20 seconds. They are so loud as to interrupt conversation outside, and I can often smell the jet fuel. Our air quality is suffering and not being adequately monitored.
And many more.
Anonymous
02/11/2023 05:11
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
The comments in WaPo just last year support what the PPs were saying:
The first flight out of DCA is around 545AM and the noise is unending every two minutes for the next 18 hours. For those of us who live in these new paths, the drone of jet engines are maddening.
You can assume all you want, but I was 15 years into living in my house when nextgen started sending low-flying aircraft over my home starting at 4 a.m. in 2015. Think you'd be pleased with that experience, or is it preferable to call me a loser for buying a home within some x mile radius of an airport?
There is horrendous noise in the Bethesda/Cabin John area since the flight path changes in the past couple years. I grew up here in the 70s and moved back. I can tell you the noise is far worse now. It starts with a train of flights starting at 6am daily. And continues throughout the day. I just get out of bed around 6:20, because it’s useless to sleep or relax in bed. During the day, flights continue. We had a respite during Covid times, but the flights are definitely back in high number.
I live in NoVa and airplane noise has increased dramatically in my neighborhood, where previously there was very little.
The first flight out of DCA is around 545AM and the noise is unending every two minutes for the next 18 hours. For those of us who live in these new paths, the drone of jet engines are maddening.
You can assume all you want, but I was 15 years into living in my house when nextgen started sending low-flying aircraft over my home starting at 4 a.m. in 2015. Think you'd be pleased with that experience, or is it preferable to call me a loser for buying a home within some x mile radius of an airport?
There is horrendous noise in the Bethesda/Cabin John area since the flight path changes in the past couple years. I grew up here in the 70s and moved back. I can tell you the noise is far worse now. It starts with a train of flights starting at 6am daily. And continues throughout the day. I just get out of bed around 6:20, because it’s useless to sleep or relax in bed. During the day, flights continue. We had a respite during Covid times, but the flights are definitely back in high number.
I live in NoVa and airplane noise has increased dramatically in my neighborhood, where previously there was very little.
Anonymous
02/10/2023 12:01
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Statistically those areas are at about -10-12% discount; not the same or more as similar areas without that issue. In DC that’s not the case; the houses cost the same or more in the Palisades and Foxhall. Are the buyers not informed?
I know that when we looked at a couple of open houses, you really couldn’t tell on Sunday afternoons, particularly if a leaf blower or a lawnmower was also going. Come Monday am, it was a very rude awakening for sure. We couldn’t imagine living like that so bought outside the flight path, but I have learnt that some people don’t care. I don’t understand that, but each to their own, as long as both sides are informed properly.
I keep wondering though how many people simply didn’t know or didn’t appreciate it for what it us? I know that the agent at one open house was aggressively calling us hypersensitive and essentially gaslighting us saying no one else thinks that, have a drink, it’s unusually bad at this moment of time, it doesn’t happen, and making us feel like we should be ashamed for asking any questions about the flight path. It was a bad experience and I’ve seen it at a couple of open houses. In the end we are grateful for that because it left a bad taste and we moved on, which we didn’t regret.
We really were tempted because it’s a green and nice neighborhood with a great K-5 for our children, but just couldn’t possibly live with it day to day ourselves. So we bought elsewhere but I really think many people simply don’t know.
Not informing the buyer is a thing in DMV. VA is a no disclosure/buyer beware state, and DC forgot that there were toxic weapons in the Spring Valley (conveniently renamed by a developer from Death Valley) for well over 70 years or so.
To reiterate, disclosures and direct dB and pollution measures are the only fair way forward.
Anonymous
02/10/2023 11:56
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
A new study in mice shows increased systemic health effects after as little as a month if exposure. These are the dB levels I measured under the flight path (the averages are adjusted and weighted so it seems less).
Chronic aircraft noise exposure up to 28 days caused persistent endothelial dysfunction and elevation of blood pressure… Endothelial dysfunction and inflammation were present during the entire 28d of aircraft noise exposure. ROS formation gradually increases with ongoing exposure without significant adaptation or tolerance in mice in response to chronic noise stress at moderate levels. These data further illustrate health side effects of long-term noise exposure and further strengthen a consequent implementation of the WHO noise guidelines in order to prevent the development of noise-related future cardiovascular disease.
The link also includes a great summary of other literature.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmolb.2021.814921/full
Chronic aircraft noise exposure up to 28 days caused persistent endothelial dysfunction and elevation of blood pressure… Endothelial dysfunction and inflammation were present during the entire 28d of aircraft noise exposure. ROS formation gradually increases with ongoing exposure without significant adaptation or tolerance in mice in response to chronic noise stress at moderate levels. These data further illustrate health side effects of long-term noise exposure and further strengthen a consequent implementation of the WHO noise guidelines in order to prevent the development of noise-related future cardiovascular disease.
The link also includes a great summary of other literature.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmolb.2021.814921/full
Anonymous
02/10/2023 11:33
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
I honestly couldn’t disagree more. There’s a DC specific study which is showing PM 2.5 (so not the PM 0.1 involved in the flight path pollution) which concluded Woodley Park and Georgetown East for example to be the best.
But the science on PM 0.1 pollution is very compelling to me. I wouldn’t put myself through that but certainly would never put my children through it. Would even reconsider schools under the flight path.
There are scary stories and good science on how breathing in the flight pollution affects the major organ systems, but there’s also a set of case studies and science on hearing and speech development in children. For example, kids start hearing similar sounding words correctly noticeably less than their peers with no exposure. It doesn’t take too long for that to happen.
But the science on PM 0.1 pollution is very compelling to me. I wouldn’t put myself through that but certainly would never put my children through it. Would even reconsider schools under the flight path.
There are scary stories and good science on how breathing in the flight pollution affects the major organ systems, but there’s also a set of case studies and science on hearing and speech development in children. For example, kids start hearing similar sounding words correctly noticeably less than their peers with no exposure. It doesn’t take too long for that to happen.
Anonymous
02/10/2023 11:24
Subject: Airplane noise concerns overblown?
Regarding air quality concerns seem overblown. Look at the recent DMV air quality scores thread.