Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

No one makes $275k / year in the federal government unless you are a contractor or a senior SES. If a contractor, you're a second class citizen to the fed workers and your salary can change at the next re-compete.

By the way, salaries for cybersecurity and IT folks in general plateau in your 30s and 40s, and job security is low into your 50s. The young kids coming up are always going to be pushing you out of your job.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

Older Ivy Grad here. We did have a career center. I used it. I read what color is my parachute. I knew campus recruiting was happening. But I had no appreciation for how marketable my undergraduate degree in history was. I had no idea I could participate in corporate recruiting. I thought all I could do was teach high school (more or less). Luckily I went to graduate school after a bit. It all worked out well. But for the basically second chance in graduate school (which happened later around 2000) I may have never figured out the degree itself opens doors, even in a liberal arts field.

(The experience of reading what color is your parachute when your parents are blue color and you have struggled to buy food was pretty funny looking back. One of the things you are supposed to think about is what would you like in a work environment. Well i wanted to get paid. I had no idea what my options were. I knew I didn’t want manual labor. Apart from that I had seen class rooms. I had worked in on campus jobs. I had no frame of reference to even understand the question asked much less answer it. I thought for a minute I might like publishing but crossed that off the list when I realized you couldn’t get into the field at a living wage. So I graduated. Tried some things. Ran into a lot of brick walks because I was dumb. Then ran into more. And i kind of figured it out after graduate school-but still feel like I am catching up.

You are lying to yourself. No one who wants to be paid well chooses to major in History. Not in 1999, not in 1959 and not in 1899. It is ok for you to say that during that point in my life I valued other things and over time I have switched focus to making more money.

Sigh. That was point of OP. I didn’t “want to get paid well” like crazy corporate; I wanted a comfortable “DCUM middle class” lifestyle by working hard on interesting work. But did not understand how expensive that lifestyle worse, nor that $200k salaries were possible for anyone other than someone on the cover of Forbes.

Also, major doesn’t matter squat coming from an Ivy. I know engineers with political degrees and investment bankers with Russian lit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

Older Ivy Grad here. We did have a career center. I used it. I read what color is my parachute. I knew campus recruiting was happening. But I had no appreciation for how marketable my undergraduate degree in history was. I had no idea I could participate in corporate recruiting. I thought all I could do was teach high school (more or less). Luckily I went to graduate school after a bit. It all worked out well. But for the basically second chance in graduate school (which happened later around 2000) I may have never figured out the degree itself opens doors, even in a liberal arts field.

(The experience of reading what color is your parachute when your parents are blue color and you have struggled to buy food was pretty funny looking back. One of the things you are supposed to think about is what would you like in a work environment. Well i wanted to get paid. I had no idea what my options were. I knew I didn’t want manual labor. Apart from that I had seen class rooms. I had worked in on campus jobs. I had no frame of reference to even understand the question asked much less answer it. I thought for a minute I might like publishing but crossed that off the list when I realized you couldn’t get into the field at a living wage. So I graduated. Tried some things. Ran into a lot of brick walks because I was dumb. Then ran into more. And i kind of figured it out after graduate school-but still feel like I am catching up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

Again, for the Nth time: You don’t know what you don’t know. When I went to college, the professionals I knew either worked in schools and universities, or were doctors. That’s pretty much it. So explain to me — pedantically— at what point the wealthy, almost exclusively white - people doing things like investment banking were going to tell me about such careers so I could seek out more information? FWIW, the doctors, lawyers, and accountants that I was dimly aware of were not wealthy.
What people like you don’t get is that you need to know that something exists to look for it, and that’s before you even get to understanding whether or not something is even possible for you. I’ve said this before, but if you grew up with the internet, if you grew up white and financially comfortable and surrounded by people doing the kinds of things that lead to and support wealth you may not be able to understand realities that don’t include those things.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I am the immigrant poster who wrote upthread. I figured this stuff out, as a teen, within two years of landing in this country. Sure there were lots of things I did not know, all the cultural nuances and subtext of the UMC and upper classes, how to negotiate, how to build and leverage a network. You learn along the way if you pay attention. But where the money was? I learned that quickly and there were plenty resources. Maybe it was because I was an immigrant and could see right through the cultural propaganda you were fed in HS and College.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

Again, for the Nth time: You don’t know what you don’t know. When I went to college, the professionals I knew either worked in schools and universities, or were doctors. That’s pretty much it. So explain to me — pedantically— at what point the wealthy, almost exclusively white - people doing things like investment banking were going to tell me about such careers so I could seek out more information? FWIW, the doctors, lawyers, and accountants that I was dimly aware of were not wealthy.
What people like you don’t get is that you need to know that something exists to look for it, and that’s before you even get to understanding whether or not something is even possible for you. I’ve said this before, but if you grew up with the internet, if you grew up white and financially comfortable and surrounded by people doing the kinds of things that lead to and support wealth you may not be able to understand realities that don’t include those things.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

I am one of the people you're suggesting was a moron for not figuring this stuff out in college in the 1990s, despite having no exposure to it and not knowing what I didn't know.

Three years later, in the early aughts, I went to law school. Thanks to the internet, and people on campus actually talking about career prospects, I now make seven figures. I am definitely someone who knows how to make the system work and doesn't need to be handheld.

Your constant arguing with the many, many people on this thread who are telling you: we grew up poor and/or not exposed to any of these ideas, and when we went to school in the 90s there was no internet or outward discussion of job prospects/salaries other than "choose your passion!" -- and the fact that you clearly did NOT grow up poor and clearly DID get exposed to these ideas before getting to college (or you went to college later than us).... does none of this register to you that your experience is not an apples to apples comparison to ours?

Also, again, the OP's whole point was: Now they know there were these services and opportunities and wishes they took advantage of them and feel like a fool for missing out. But genuinely had no idea the services or opportunities exist.

It’s not just one person who disagrees with you, it’s multiple. And people talked about careers in law school because it was a professional school. Did you go to an Ivy prior? Because the vibe would have been the same at an Ivy college as in law school, and if a student didn’t take advantage of it that’s his own loss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

I am one of the people you're suggesting was a moron for not figuring this stuff out in college in the 1990s, despite having no exposure to it and not knowing what I didn't know.

Three years later, in the early aughts, I went to law school. Thanks to the internet, and people on campus actually talking about career prospects, I now make seven figures. I am definitely someone who knows how to make the system work and doesn't need to be handheld.

Your constant arguing with the many, many people on this thread who are telling you: we grew up poor and/or not exposed to any of these ideas, and when we went to school in the 90s there was no internet or outward discussion of job prospects/salaries other than "choose your passion!" -- and the fact that you clearly did NOT grow up poor and clearly DID get exposed to these ideas before getting to college (or you went to college later than us).... does none of this register to you that your experience is not an apples to apples comparison to ours?

Also, again, the OP's whole point was: Now they know there were these services and opportunities and wishes they took advantage of them and feel like a fool for missing out. But genuinely had no idea the services or opportunities exist.

It’s not just one person who disagrees with you, it’s multiple. And people talked about careers in law school because it was a professional school. Did you go to an Ivy prior? Because the vibe would have been the same at an Ivy college as in law school, and if a student didn’t take advantage of it that’s his own loss.

Anonymous wrote:I remember buying Vault guides at the bookstore. That was where I learned about ibanking and consulting salaries and bonuses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

I am one of the people you're suggesting was a moron for not figuring this stuff out in college in the 1990s, despite having no exposure to it and not knowing what I didn't know.

Three years later, in the early aughts, I went to law school. Thanks to the internet, and people on campus actually talking about career prospects, I now make seven figures. I am definitely someone who knows how to make the system work and doesn't need to be handheld.

Your constant arguing with the many, many people on this thread who are telling you: we grew up poor and/or not exposed to any of these ideas, and when we went to school in the 90s there was no internet or outward discussion of job prospects/salaries other than "choose your passion!" -- and the fact that you clearly did NOT grow up poor and clearly DID get exposed to these ideas before getting to college (or you went to college later than us).... does none of this register to you that your experience is not an apples to apples comparison to ours?

Also, again, the OP's whole point was: Now they know there were these services and opportunities and wishes they took advantage of them and feel like a fool for missing out. But genuinely had no idea the services or opportunities exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

What are you talking about!? What book or magazine published senior salaries of Investment Banking? I have never even heard of investment banking — it’s not like anyplace in my rural hometown sold The NY Times or anything.

Seriously, what book or magazine published salaries like that? Even today I can’t think of anything…

This. DH and I have discussed this thread. He grew up super poor (like, food stamps and stuff). I didn't - but the only lawyer I knew was the "local town lawyer" - did estates and real estate and business contracts. He just retired last year and I bet he was making $150k at the end. I had never heard of an "investment banker" until my 20s. Other than in Wall Street. Which was as much a career fantasy land to me as Top Gun or Jurassic Park. I didn't know people actually had those jobs in real life. No one I knew at school was talking about it either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.

What are you talking about!? What book or magazine published senior salaries of Investment Banking? I have never even heard of investment banking — it’s not like anyplace in my rural hometown sold The NY Times or anything.

Seriously, what book or magazine published salaries like that? Even today I can’t think of anything…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember buying Vault guides at the bookstore. That was where I learned about ibanking and consulting salaries and bonuses.

Again, that is clearly for the the money hungry Gordon Gecko types — the knowledge that you needed to follow that path for a comfortable life wasn’t widely known.

Anonymous wrote:I remember buying Vault guides at the bookstore. That was where I learned about ibanking and consulting salaries and bonuses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't even attend Ivies (former UVA grad) and I am making 275K/yr working for the Federal government as a SME in Cybersecurity at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I am in my 30's and most of my former classmates are making a lot more in the private sector.

Why do all these 30 year olds keep posting? You had a rich repository of information about COL and career paths on the internet to guide you.

And it’s been pointed out for the older Ivy graduates you always had excellent career centers and recruiting opportunities.

None of which ever discussed salaries, which is the point of OP. Career center was all about passion and interest and how to help the world. Recruitment might have alluded to starting salary and “growth” but never talked about hard numbers unless maybe at the final offer stage.

If you could not figure this out on your own, you did not and still don’t have the skills to navigate the big jobs with the big salaries. High paying jobs are extremely competitive, no one will tell you how to get them.

Figure out salaries on your own? Talking about salaries was very gauche in the 90s — so basically if you weren’t already in the inner circle of UMC professionals you were screwed either way?

Not to be pedantic but c’mon, you don’t need the actual salary to have a good sense of ballpark for IBanking, Medicine, Law, Accounting, Teaching etc etc. That info was easily available in books and newspaper and magazine articles if you cared to do the research.

OP’s issue is not that he did not negotiate well, he missed the ball completely by picking a non lucrative path. The people who need to be handheld like this cannot rise up the ranks to make the big bucks.