Anonymous
08/04/2022 08:50
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
I personally think rolling cut-offs are a bad idea for multiple reasons in a short season like this, most of which have been stated at one point or another.
- An 8yr old who has been training doing only 25s since May suddenly has to start doing 50s in mid-July
- An older graduating senior (e.g. someone who may have been red-shirted back in kindergarten) suddenly gets kicked off their team midway through their final season
- USA Swimming year round is essentially individuals. Kids swim with clubs, but NCAP isn't competing against Machine to win or lose a major meet. In NVSL it is team-based so constant changes in lineups definitely are disruptive
- It's a short and intensively busy season for volunteers and coaches. This makes it harder when it's supposed to be fun
All that being said, I could see moving the date to something like August 15th, that way no athlete changes ages mid-season and the age groups stay stable. You still have kids 24mos apart, or in the 15-18 group potentially almost 4yrs apart, but the ages aren't shifting.
- An 8yr old who has been training doing only 25s since May suddenly has to start doing 50s in mid-July
- An older graduating senior (e.g. someone who may have been red-shirted back in kindergarten) suddenly gets kicked off their team midway through their final season
- USA Swimming year round is essentially individuals. Kids swim with clubs, but NCAP isn't competing against Machine to win or lose a major meet. In NVSL it is team-based so constant changes in lineups definitely are disruptive
- It's a short and intensively busy season for volunteers and coaches. This makes it harder when it's supposed to be fun
All that being said, I could see moving the date to something like August 15th, that way no athlete changes ages mid-season and the age groups stay stable. You still have kids 24mos apart, or in the 15-18 group potentially almost 4yrs apart, but the ages aren't shifting.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 08:21
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It was a very short period of time in NVSL history where they switched away from the June 1st cutoff. They realized very quickly that it sucked, so they changed it back.
The switch to actual age was in place from at least 2004 through 2011. That's not exactly a quick change of course.
It actually goes back to at least 2003, the earliest date of current online records. For most of the 00s, 8 year olds were 8.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 08:06
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Or the league found rolling cut offs to be disruptive and returned to the historic and nationwide norm?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think most of the people posting here who are upset about this age group thing should just stop worrying. Your kids are going to quit swimming before they get to the elite level due to burnout because their parents are way. too. invested.
You know that the people posting in favor of the June 1 cutoff are also way. too. invested., right? Because if they moved the cutoff to August they would be freaking out, which is actually why NVSL changed the deadline to June 1.
Why do you keep saying this? Do you have a copy of the NVSL rules where it is based on birthday and not June 1? Because both the 1956 and 1965 handbook say age is determined by June 1st.
Look for yourself: https://www.mynvsl.com/documents?folder_id=19998
Lol, no I’m not invested to the point I’m reading docs from 1956 and 1965, and neither of those documents changes the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t have June 1st as it’s age cutoff. You will also notice that none of the other people arguing about this is disputing the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t use June 1 as a cutoff.
It was a very short period of time in NVSL history where they switched away from the June 1st cutoff. They realized very quickly that it sucked, so they changed it back.
Most of the history of the NVSL includes the June 1st cutoff.
Sucked, aka the parents of the kids disadvantaged by the rule complained
It's crazy that you somehow think that parents of June and July kids somehow have more clout than April and May kids or August and September kids.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 08:02
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:It was a very short period of time in NVSL history where they switched away from the June 1st cutoff. They realized very quickly that it sucked, so they changed it back.
The switch to actual age was in place from at least 2004 through 2011. That's not exactly a quick change of course.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:25
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think most of the people posting here who are upset about this age group thing should just stop worrying. Your kids are going to quit swimming before they get to the elite level due to burnout because their parents are way. too. invested.
You know that the people posting in favor of the June 1 cutoff are also way. too. invested., right? Because if they moved the cutoff to August they would be freaking out, which is actually why NVSL changed the deadline to June 1.
Why do you keep saying this? Do you have a copy of the NVSL rules where it is based on birthday and not June 1? Because both the 1956 and 1965 handbook say age is determined by June 1st.
Look for yourself: https://www.mynvsl.com/documents?folder_id=19998
Lol, no I’m not invested to the point I’m reading docs from 1956 and 1965, and neither of those documents changes the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t have June 1st as it’s age cutoff. You will also notice that none of the other people arguing about this is disputing the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t use June 1 as a cutoff.
It was a very short period of time in NVSL history where they switched away from the June 1st cutoff. They realized very quickly that it sucked, so they changed it back.
Most of the history of the NVSL includes the June 1st cutoff.
Sucked, aka the parents of the kids disadvantaged by the rule complained
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:23
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think most of the people posting here who are upset about this age group thing should just stop worrying. Your kids are going to quit swimming before they get to the elite level due to burnout because their parents are way. too. invested.
You know that the people posting in favor of the June 1 cutoff are also way. too. invested., right? Because if they moved the cutoff to August they would be freaking out, which is actually why NVSL changed the deadline to June 1.
Why do you keep saying this? Do you have a copy of the NVSL rules where it is based on birthday and not June 1? Because both the 1956 and 1965 handbook say age is determined by June 1st.
Look for yourself: https://www.mynvsl.com/documents?folder_id=19998
Lol, no I’m not invested to the point I’m reading docs from 1956 and 1965, and neither of those documents changes the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t have June 1st as it’s age cutoff. You will also notice that none of the other people arguing about this is disputing the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t use June 1 as a cutoff.
It was a very short period of time in NVSL history where they switched away from the June 1st cutoff. They realized very quickly that it sucked, so they changed it back.
Most of the history of the NVSL includes the June 1st cutoff.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 07:10
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or....even worse... do 50’s the whole summer when they don’t turn 9 until the end of July.
The horrors! Instead of beating up on 6 and 7 year olds in 25's they'd have to learn to turn around and go back across the pool ... just like the kids born in May of the same year already do.
Sigh. But then you understand that the older kids in that classification will then "beat up on" the 8 year old who is swimming up, right? Or the just-turned 9 year old who suddenly has to double their distance on their birthday who then has to race against kids who have been doing that distance for months or years?
It's unfair either way, but luckily it doesn't really matter because its just kids doing summer rec swim.
As long as 9s aren’t winning 8&u races, medals, and awards I'm happy. They’ll get their chance the next year.
Did your kid finish second? Is that why you are so upset?
Haha the winner of 8&under boys free at all stars is 9.
In 2021, yes. In 2022, it appears an actual 8 year old won. But, as someone noted earlier, an 11 year old did win the 9-10 freestyle this year.
Anonymous
08/04/2022 04:00
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or....even worse... do 50’s the whole summer when they don’t turn 9 until the end of July.
The horrors! Instead of beating up on 6 and 7 year olds in 25's they'd have to learn to turn around and go back across the pool ... just like the kids born in May of the same year already do.
Sigh. But then you understand that the older kids in that classification will then "beat up on" the 8 year old who is swimming up, right? Or the just-turned 9 year old who suddenly has to double their distance on their birthday who then has to race against kids who have been doing that distance for months or years?
It's unfair either way, but luckily it doesn't really matter because its just kids doing summer rec swim.
As long as 9s aren’t winning 8&u races, medals, and awards I'm happy. They’ll get their chance the next year.
Haha the winner of 8&under boys free at all stars is 9.
In 2021, yes. In 2022, it appears an actual 8 year old won. But, as someone noted earlier, an 11 year old did win the 9-10 freestyle this year.
Anonymous
08/03/2022 21:31
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Lol, no I’m not invested to the point I’m reading docs from 1956 and 1965, and neither of those documents changes the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t have June 1st as it’s age cutoff. You will also notice that none of the other people arguing about this is disputing the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t use June 1 as a cutoff.
The link to the historical rule books is literally the 4th link when you google "nvsl rule book". This is at least the 3rd time a link to the historical rules have been posted.
Can you post a copy of the rules when it was based on birthday? Genuinely asking.
I remember this happening because it was right after our kids started swimming and it affected a couple kids in DD age group. It took effect summer 2012. I can't find old rule books on the website, but you can tell by looking at old results. Go to Leaders, by name and search a kid you know with a mid season birthday that was active then. It will show their full history and age at each meet. I did and saw in 2011 the swimmer was 7 and then 8, in 2011 meets. Then all season 2012, remained 8 (even past previous birthday.)
Anonymous
08/03/2022 21:23
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or....even worse... do 50’s the whole summer when they don’t turn 9 until the end of July.
The horrors! Instead of beating up on 6 and 7 year olds in 25's they'd have to learn to turn around and go back across the pool ... just like the kids born in May of the same year already do.
Sigh. But then you understand that the older kids in that classification will then "beat up on" the 8 year old who is swimming up, right? Or the just-turned 9 year old who suddenly has to double their distance on their birthday who then has to race against kids who have been doing that distance for months or years?
It's unfair either way, but luckily it doesn't really matter because its just kids doing summer rec swim.
As long as 9s aren’t winning 8&u races, medals, and awards I'm happy. They’ll get their chance the next year.
Haha the winner of 8&under boys free at all stars is 9.
Anonymous
08/03/2022 20:51
Subject: Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Looks like 8&u’s were swimming 50’s in 1965. Stop babying them and bring back that tradition too.
Anonymous
08/03/2022 20:45
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:
Lol, no I’m not invested to the point I’m reading docs from 1956 and 1965, and neither of those documents changes the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t have June 1st as it’s age cutoff. You will also notice that none of the other people arguing about this is disputing the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t use June 1 as a cutoff.
The link to the historical rule books is literally the 4th link when you google "nvsl rule book". This is at least the 3rd time a link to the historical rules have been posted.
Can you post a copy of the rules when it was based on birthday? Genuinely asking.
Anonymous
08/03/2022 20:10
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think most of the people posting here who are upset about this age group thing should just stop worrying. Your kids are going to quit swimming before they get to the elite level due to burnout because their parents are way. too. invested.
You know that the people posting in favor of the June 1 cutoff are also way. too. invested., right? Because if they moved the cutoff to August they would be freaking out, which is actually why NVSL changed the deadline to June 1.
Why do you keep saying this? Do you have a copy of the NVSL rules where it is based on birthday and not June 1? Because both the 1956 and 1965 handbook say age is determined by June 1st.
Look for yourself: https://www.mynvsl.com/documents?folder_id=19998
Lol, no I’m not invested to the point I’m reading docs from 1956 and 1965, and neither of those documents changes the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t have June 1st as it’s age cutoff. You will also notice that none of the other people arguing about this is disputing the fact that NVSL in the recent past didn’t use June 1 as a cutoff.
Anonymous
08/03/2022 19:31
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or....even worse... do 50’s the whole summer when they don’t turn 9 until the end of July.
The horrors! Instead of beating up on 6 and 7 year olds in 25's they'd have to learn to turn around and go back across the pool ... just like the kids born in May of the same year already do.
Sigh. But then you understand that the older kids in that classification will then "beat up on" the 8 year old who is swimming up, right? Or the just-turned 9 year old who suddenly has to double their distance on their birthday who then has to race against kids who have been doing that distance for months or years?
It's unfair either way, but luckily it doesn't really matter because its just kids doing summer rec swim.
As long as 9s aren’t winning 8&u races, medals, and awards I'm happy. They’ll get their chance the next year.
Anonymous
08/03/2022 19:01
Subject: Re:Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or....even worse... do 50’s the whole summer when they don’t turn 9 until the end of July.
The horrors! Instead of beating up on 6 and 7 year olds in 25's they'd have to learn to turn around and go back across the pool ... just like the kids born in May of the same year already do.
Sigh. But then you understand that the older kids in that classification will then "beat up on" the 8 year old who is swimming up, right? Or the just-turned 9 year old who suddenly has to double their distance on their birthday who then has to race against kids who have been doing that distance for months or years?
It's unfair either way, but luckily it doesn't really matter because its just kids doing summer rec swim.