Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have proof that a coach was charging extra to train players on that field at that time? Or just assuming it was a private lesson? There is at least one coach who has “scheduled” pickup soccer on Fridays on more than one occasion. It’s not a formal training it’s just whoever in the age group wants to show up can come play and the coach sort of loosely refs/gives tips. Turnout varies widely considering people have different things going on. I don’t know the rules on this. It just seems like there’s an assumption that a coach was running a paid private lesson but that may not be the case. They shouldn’t be kicking other people off the field I agree with that part.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

please post the link of your summary above from a fairfax site. As they (coaches) are making money regardless if this is private or club.

you can to fairfax field permit site. I read through and above poster is attempting to interpret it in this manner. But the language is ambiguous. So though it may be a sneaky way to claim a field, it looks like the county cant really do anything about it. A-lot of clubs only practice 2x a week. If a coach wants to schedule some extra time for team and wants to charge doesn't look like it matters from a county perspective. (Even if only 2-3 kids show) A club may take issue with it though.

Now if coach is running a paid clinic for a bunch of random kids then poster has a point.

This is one of those things that rarely enforced because it's a pain for everyone. Fairfax won't crack down because it would require sending someone out to check on permits, compare against club the coach claims to be with, have the club confirm that he's running an activity for them, etc. Parks doesn't have the bandwidth, cops have better things to do.

Clubs aren't going to crack down because they want coaches to make their money and stay happy. Unless you're a director, you're not likely making enough money from teams to live well in NOVA. They turn a blind eye.

With all that said, it's often you see coaches out during times they don't have fields even through the club and they will try to bully people off by using their association to the club. Most people give way because they don't know better and that's annoying. Again, enforcement is hard and really comes down to people knowing the rules.

And the reason coaches don't do this the right way is because they would have to carry insurance and pay a hefty fee to the county if they did it by the books.

they are following rules if kids are associated with club. Theres nothing county or you can do about it. Contact club if you have issues.

The rules for permits absolutely do not allow for the clubs to sub let their fields to for profit enterprises. If these coaches are reporting the income through the club, you're right that they aren't breaking the rules. As it's likely they are not going through the club as well as fully reporting their income at the end of the year, I doubt they are "following the rules." And as I stated earlier, the issue isn't one of right and wrong with the county, but rather bandwidth and willingness to enforce. They'll only come out if someone has a permit and someone without it is refusing to get off the field. Trust that these coaches aren't dumb enough to get involved with that.

For further reference, Section 8, A of the field allocation policy for Fairfax County.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/neighborhood-community-services/athletics/field-eligibility-and-permits

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

please post the link of your summary above from a fairfax site. As they (coaches) are making money regardless if this is private or club.

you can to fairfax field permit site. I read through and above poster is attempting to interpret it in this manner. But the language is ambiguous. So though it may be a sneaky way to claim a field, it looks like the county cant really do anything about it. A-lot of clubs only practice 2x a week. If a coach wants to schedule some extra time for team and wants to charge doesn't look like it matters from a county perspective. (Even if only 2-3 kids show) A club may take issue with it though.

Now if coach is running a paid clinic for a bunch of random kids then poster has a point.

This is one of those things that rarely enforced because it's a pain for everyone. Fairfax won't crack down because it would require sending someone out to check on permits, compare against club the coach claims to be with, have the club confirm that he's running an activity for them, etc. Parks doesn't have the bandwidth, cops have better things to do.

Clubs aren't going to crack down because they want coaches to make their money and stay happy. Unless you're a director, you're not likely making enough money from teams to live well in NOVA. They turn a blind eye.

With all that said, it's often you see coaches out during times they don't have fields even through the club and they will try to bully people off by using their association to the club. Most people give way because they don't know better and that's annoying. Again, enforcement is hard and really comes down to people knowing the rules.

And the reason coaches don't do this the right way is because they would have to carry insurance and pay a hefty fee to the county if they did it by the books.

they are following rules if kids are associated with club. Theres nothing county or you can do about it. Contact club if you have issues.

The rules for permits absolutely do not allow for the clubs to sub let their fields to for profit enterprises. If these coaches are reporting the income through the club, you're right that they aren't breaking the rules. As it's likely they are not going through the club as well as fully reporting their income at the end of the year, I doubt they are "following the rules." And as I stated earlier, the issue isn't one of right and wrong with the county, but rather bandwidth and willingness to enforce. They'll only come out if someone has a permit and someone without it is refusing to get off the field. Trust that these coaches aren't dumb enough to get involved with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

please post the link of your summary above from a fairfax site. As they (coaches) are making money regardless if this is private or club.

you can to fairfax field permit site. I read through and above poster is attempting to interpret it in this manner. But the language is ambiguous. So though it may be a sneaky way to claim a field, it looks like the county cant really do anything about it. A-lot of clubs only practice 2x a week. If a coach wants to schedule some extra time for team and wants to charge doesn't look like it matters from a county perspective. (Even if only 2-3 kids show) A club may take issue with it though.

Now if coach is running a paid clinic for a bunch of random kids then poster has a point.

This is one of those things that rarely enforced because it's a pain for everyone. Fairfax won't crack down because it would require sending someone out to check on permits, compare against club the coach claims to be with, have the club confirm that he's running an activity for them, etc. Parks doesn't have the bandwidth, cops have better things to do.

Clubs aren't going to crack down because they want coaches to make their money and stay happy. Unless you're a director, you're not likely making enough money from teams to live well in NOVA. They turn a blind eye.

With all that said, it's often you see coaches out during times they don't have fields even through the club and they will try to bully people off by using their association to the club. Most people give way because they don't know better and that's annoying. Again, enforcement is hard and really comes down to people knowing the rules.

And the reason coaches don't do this the right way is because they would have to carry insurance and pay a hefty fee to the county if they did it by the books.

they are following rules if kids are associated with club. Theres nothing county or you can do about it. Contact club if you have issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

please post the link of your summary above from a fairfax site. As they (coaches) are making money regardless if this is private or club.

you can to fairfax field permit site. I read through and above poster is attempting to interpret it in this manner. But the language is ambiguous. So though it may be a sneaky way to claim a field, it looks like the county cant really do anything about it. A-lot of clubs only practice 2x a week. If a coach wants to schedule some extra time for team and wants to charge doesn't look like it matters from a county perspective. (Even if only 2-3 kids show) A club may take issue with it though.

Now if coach is running a paid clinic for a bunch of random kids then poster has a point.

This is one of those things that rarely enforced because it's a pain for everyone. Fairfax won't crack down because it would require sending someone out to check on permits, compare against club the coach claims to be with, have the club confirm that he's running an activity for them, etc. Parks doesn't have the bandwidth, cops have better things to do.

Clubs aren't going to crack down because they want coaches to make their money and stay happy. Unless you're a director, you're not likely making enough money from teams to live well in NOVA. They turn a blind eye.

With all that said, it's often you see coaches out during times they don't have fields even through the club and they will try to bully people off by using their association to the club. Most people give way because they don't know better and that's annoying. Again, enforcement is hard and really comes down to people knowing the rules.

And the reason coaches don't do this the right way is because they would have to carry insurance and pay a hefty fee to the county if they did it by the books.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

please post the link of your summary above from a fairfax site. As they (coaches) are making money regardless if this is private or club.

you can to fairfax field permit site. I read through and above poster is attempting to interpret it in this manner. But the language is ambiguous. So though it may be a sneaky way to claim a field, it looks like the county cant really do anything about it. A-lot of clubs only practice 2x a week. If a coach wants to schedule some extra time for team and wants to charge doesn't look like it matters from a county perspective. (Even if only 2-3 kids show) A club may take issue with it though.

Now if coach is running a paid clinic for a bunch of random kids then poster has a point.

Anonymous wrote:Do these coaches not have regular jobs outside of coaching low level travel?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

please post the link of your summary above from a fairfax site. As they (coaches) are making money regardless if this is private or club.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Yea to this comment. Concur.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Nope, that is not how permits work. The permit are assigned based on numbers of players and the practice space the county calculates you get, and how many of the players are Fairfax residents. The fields are designated for practices and games for those kids and there is a priority based on non-proft, kids v adults, whether you have a rec league, etc.
The County assigned those permits to CYA based in part on CYA's large rec league numbers and CYA then lets Valor use their permits.

Any fields you aren't using for their permitted purpose each week are supposed to be given back to the county for another group to use.

If you are going to run a private, for-profit business---private training-- on the fields, your request is last priority and you are charged a lot more.

Now a coach can go use and share an open field and do training like anyone else can and like pp's kids were doing when they were kicked off. But it is against the rules to not regularly schedule practice on a field and reserve it for private trainings and also against the rules to make the community clear off a field so you can charge people for a lesson. The Valor coaches would have no special right to the field over the 25 guys playing pick up.

If the County knew they were doing this, CYA would lose some of their permitted fields as clearly they were assigned too many if they don't need all of the space for practices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this past fall, multiple Valor coaches were using a turf field at Ellanor Lawrence Park on Fridays for private lessons. They kicked pick up players off one day saying it was for "Valor practice" but only 1-2 kids per coach showed up. It was clearly not team practices. I am surprised Valor gives turf field space to coaches for this. Seems unethical when you are telling the County the field will be used for practices not private entrepenuriship.

Need to follow up on this… can’t tell as I don’t see valor (and some of this shenanigans) as being trust worthy

valor i believe has a blanket permit to have fields for certain windows. If you are on them its more in there rights to kick you off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we're with Valor *gasp* I know. Our age group has multiple players moving UP and DOWN mid season. This is below U13, so don't know about other age groups. These moves were NOT by parent's requests. From what we can tell the moves were warranted. Our player was not one of those moved, but we had a player move up from our team and another move down to us from the team above.

Our experience has been a good one so far, but it's a big club so I imagine opinions will vary.

You’re saying moves….but are they really moving up in the divisions or is Valor recoloring the team (Name) because the top team is possible moving to regionals or EDP?
-Are you going 7v7 to 9v9 or to 11v11 (increasing the number of the roster and the bench)
-Maybe less kids are playing as you move up in age group.
-For example look at the number of teams they combined or discontinued to support full rosters in the next age group.
-Are you in a better or worst division?
-How does that translate from last year?
-Have you really moved up are are you still sitting with the same players?

What is up with people here talking condescendingly to parents with direct experience with a situation as if they don’t know anything? Parents have directly told you what they have seen with their own two eyes, yet some of you (or maybe it’s just one of you) seems to think that you know better and the parent must be wrong. It’s really quite obnoxious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we're with Valor *gasp* I know. Our age group has multiple players moving UP and DOWN mid season. This is below U13, so don't know about other age groups. These moves were NOT by parent's requests. From what we can tell the moves were warranted. Our player was not one of those moved, but we had a player move up from our team and another move down to us from the team above.

Our experience has been a good one so far, but it's a big club so I imagine opinions will vary.

You’re saying moves….but are they really moving up in the divisions or is Valor recoloring the team (Name) because the top team is possible moving to regionals or EDP?
-Are you going 7v7 to 9v9 or to 11v11 (increasing the number of the roster and the bench)
-Maybe less kids are playing as you move up in age group.
-For example look at the number of teams they combined or discontinued to support full rosters in the next age group.
-Are you in a better or worst division?
-How does that translate from last year?
-Have you really moved up are are you still sitting with the same players?

What is up with people here talking condescendingly to parents with direct experience with a situation as if they don’t know anything? Parents have directly told you what they have seen with their own two eyes, yet some of you (or maybe it’s just one of you) seems to think that you know better and the parent must be wrong. It’s really quite obnoxious.