I am willing to pay 20 dollars a gallon for gas if the gov is gonna promise to turn the USA into Japanese and Swiss levels of infrastructure and cleanliness.

I’m sorry but if we have a third world country, I want a discount.

Kyiv is cleaner than dc!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much extra would you pay for gas for a few months if it meant saving the lives of 500K to 1 million Ukrainians?

That’s literally the calculus all of you should be considering. Would you pay $6/gallon for the next 6 months if you could save the lives of 300,000 children and their mothers?

Unfortunately, I think most Americans - particularly those who drive a lot - would say “I don’t care, not my problem.” If there’s one thing Americans and Russians have in common is that their elites believe life should be cheap.

I'd make the same sacrifices my grandparents made in WWII.

I think about that a lot. I don't think most Americans are familiar with the sacrifices people made in WWII (other than sending kids off to war). My grandfather ran a gas station during WWII, and my dad collected ration cards. I saw an economist on CNN saying we had to be really careful about some of hte sanctions because of the effect on energy costs, and how they are already high and no one wants to pay more at the pump. And I was thinking "Yeah, people are willing to let Ukrainians die rather than pay more at the pump." To be fair, we weren't willing to pay more at the pump after 9/11, when the Saudi's financed the murder of thousands of Americans. Our dependence on cheap foreign oil has led to a really sad outcomes.
THis is really the time to do it, too -- at least we're not headed into winter when people will need heating oil.

I kept waiting after 9/11 to hear what were the sacrifices we needed to make for this war. Then I was told to "keep shopping." Yes, demand is crucial in a healthy economy, but I know the "sense of shared sacrifice" is what shaped my parents' world when they were in their early teens in WWII and made them to be the community-minded people they were as adults and til their deaths. I would like to say that the Bush II team blundered when they said "keep shopping," but I think it was a purposeful choice by the political people to exploit partisan division (as seen just months later when they went after Democratic Senate incumbents as "weak on terror," including a triple amputee from the Vietnam War, running against a chickenhawk in Georgia).

If Biden talks about any sense of sacrifice in tonight's SOTU, sadly, the GOP will then say "his weak leadership caused this," rather than hewing to the tradition of both parties coming together in international crises. Fortunately Biden is at the helm as there is really no way that EU countries, along with other nations, would have come together so fast and seamlessly. Heck, the three big neutrals - Finland, Sweden, and Switzerland (who stood on the sidelines during WWII!) - and Germany took action over the weekend. A refreshing type of norm breaking after 4 years of shredding.

I hope Biden announces tonight that we're cutting oil imports and going head-to-head with Russia, WWIII be damned. It's hard for me to imagine that China would intervene on Russia's behalf with almost the entire rest of the world against them. North Korea might, but they'd be erased.

We would expect a lot of pain for a while, but unless someone kills Putin in the near term, we're going to be at serious risk of his instability for a long time.

Getting India onboard is easy —

But the us won’t do it.

Cut off Pakistan ties, fund India 50 billion a year in arms sales (Israel gets 30+ billion…India needs more if you want quad to be successful).

If the us cannot plug in russian weapon systems for India, India will chart a non-aligned path.

Remember — quad is extremely important for the us. Us will not burn India over Russian posture.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These stiff sanctions and total exclusion of Russia are worrying me. I think they will push Putin over the edge. Similar to how Hitler and Germany were punished after WWI. And the way Hitler reacted. Scary stuff.

the key word here is *after*. We are in the middle of a war, not after it. If we continue after it ends, that would be bad. But during a war you want us to give up?

Yes. PP does want to give up.

Don’t speak for me please! Just explore all options prior to his inevitable escalation.

Anonymous wrote:I saw the article the other day about the Ukrainian pilots picking up the donated fighter jets in Poland. Can anyone explain to me why their first stop wasn't to bomb the crap out of that slow-moving convoy headed to Kyiiv?

I'm really appreciative of the people with military understanding that have been explaining some of this stuff.

Also a little surprised that the Ukrianians aren't fashioning more IEDs -- I thought that was pretty easy tech now, and was used so heavily in the Middle East. If they lined the road with a bunch of those they might be able to at least slow down the convoy, no?

With all this talk and no action about the convoy, I'm worried that those trucks and tanks could contain gases/chemicals/bombs that would devastate the country and beyond if it were bombed.
Cratering the road in front of it could at the very least slow it down further.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These stiff sanctions and total exclusion of Russia are worrying me. I think they will push Putin over the edge. Similar to how Hitler and Germany were punished after WWI. And the way Hitler reacted. Scary stuff.

the key word here is *after*. We are in the middle of a war, not after it. If we continue after it ends, that would be bad. But during a war you want us to give up?

No, not give up. Just to be prepared for Major escalation. Are there any diplomatic actions that could be taken? Any of Russia’s allies we could be reaching out to for example?

It's up to the oligarchs and keeping China boxed in and unable to openly support. Also need to put pressure on India. Peace with Iran would be a wildcard.

Anonymous wrote:These stiff sanctions and total exclusion of Russia are worrying me. I think they will push Putin over the edge. Similar to how Hitler and Germany were punished after WWI. And the way Hitler reacted. Scary stuff.

Well, this interview with Fiona Hill (which everyone should read) will not make you feel any better:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much extra would you pay for gas for a few months if it meant saving the lives of 500K to 1 million Ukrainians?

That’s literally the calculus all of you should be considering. Would you pay $6/gallon for the next 6 months if you could save the lives of 300,000 children and their mothers?

Unfortunately, I think most Americans - particularly those who drive a lot - would say “I don’t care, not my problem.” If there’s one thing Americans and Russians have in common is that their elites believe life should be cheap.

So does "driving a lot" correlate to being an "elite?"

The way we do it, yes. Witness a Congressional representative complaining about filling up his enormous gas guzzling truck with two gas tanks. We are a very spoiled people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These stiff sanctions and total exclusion of Russia are worrying me. I think they will push Putin over the edge. Similar to how Hitler and Germany were punished after WWI. And the way Hitler reacted. Scary stuff.

the key word here is *after*. We are in the middle of a war, not after it. If we continue after it ends, that would be bad. But during a war you want us to give up?

Yes. PP does want to give up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since I follow sports, what has been impressive is the Ukrainian athletes with "something to lose" who have abandoned their endeavors and joined the fight. Thinking in particular of athletes like Lomachennko (top 10 p4p boxer), Usyk (heavyweight champ), Klitschko bros (though they are politicians now), Amosov (Bellator MMA welterweight champ). These guys should be training for bigtime fights and seemingly dropped everything to fight for their country, and not from afar. This has to be invigorating for the sense of common purpose and linked fate.

I have a hard time envisioning comparable American figures stepping up like this. Usually the fighting is left to the poor enlisted. But perhaps this wouldn't be needed due to the size of our military and our general military superiority. Also, as they say, necessity is the mother of virtue, so perhaps I should give the Americans more benefit of the doubt.

Pat Tillman is waving at you from Heaven.

Pat fought in an unjust war for an unjust cause

Cool story bro.

I saw the article the other day about the Ukrainian pilots picking up the donated fighter jets in Poland. Can anyone explain to me why their first stop wasn't to bomb the crap out of that slow-moving convoy headed to Kyiiv?

I'm really appreciative of the people with military understanding that have been explaining some of this stuff.

Also a little surprised that the Ukrianians aren't fashioning more IEDs -- I thought that was pretty easy tech now, and was used so heavily in the Middle East. If they lined the road with a bunch of those they might be able to at least slow down the convoy, no?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much extra would you pay for gas for a few months if it meant saving the lives of 500K to 1 million Ukrainians?

That’s literally the calculus all of you should be considering. Would you pay $6/gallon for the next 6 months if you could save the lives of 300,000 children and their mothers?

Unfortunately, I think most Americans - particularly those who drive a lot - would say “I don’t care, not my problem.” If there’s one thing Americans and Russians have in common is that their elites believe life should be cheap.

I'd make the same sacrifices my grandparents made in WWII.

I think about that a lot. I don't think most Americans are familiar with the sacrifices people made in WWII (other than sending kids off to war). My grandfather ran a gas station during WWII, and my dad collected ration cards. I saw an economist on CNN saying we had to be really careful about some of hte sanctions because of the effect on energy costs, and how they are already high and no one wants to pay more at the pump. And I was thinking "Yeah, people are willing to let Ukrainians die rather than pay more at the pump." To be fair, we weren't willing to pay more at the pump after 9/11, when the Saudi's financed the murder of thousands of Americans. Our dependence on cheap foreign oil has led to a really sad outcomes.
THis is really the time to do it, too -- at least we're not headed into winter when people will need heating oil.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much extra would you pay for gas for a few months if it meant saving the lives of 500K to 1 million Ukrainians?

That’s literally the calculus all of you should be considering. Would you pay $6/gallon for the next 6 months if you could save the lives of 300,000 children and their mothers?

Unfortunately, I think most Americans - particularly those who drive a lot - would say “I don’t care, not my problem.” If there’s one thing Americans and Russians have in common is that their elites believe life should be cheap.

So does "driving a lot" correlate to being an "elite?"

Compared to the average dirt poor human living on planet earth? Yup.

That said, those trotting around in the private jets, yachts, or jetting off to Europe or Mexico every month on a $400 airfare are also part of that group.

Agree completely. Most Americans are part of the global elite because: they have enough food to eat, they own a car, they flush their sh!t down a toilet. Most people on earth are without at least one of these three if not all three.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These stiff sanctions and total exclusion of Russia are worrying me. I think they will push Putin over the edge. Similar to how Hitler and Germany were punished after WWI. And the way Hitler reacted. Scary stuff.

the key word here is *after*. We are in the middle of a war, not after it. If we continue after it ends, that would be bad. But during a war you want us to give up?

No, not give up. Just to be prepared for Major escalation. Are there any diplomatic actions that could be taken? Any of Russia’s allies we could be reaching out to for example?

It's up to the oligarchs and keeping China boxed in and unable to openly support. Also need to put pressure on India. Peace with Iran would be a wildcard.