I think BB didn't know about Joe.

Investigators, experienced LE and prosecutors strongly disagree with you.

Joe told his friend he had met a couple and was starting a c*ck relationship with them. So, BB would be the key c*ck there. JR thought it was about sex BB and CB agreed to, CB thought it was about sex BB wanted her to have but BB wanted a man in the house as a fall guy and for him to engage in behaviors that would make him easy to smear. Rough sex dude from Fe&tlife was a simple way to order one up.

He trained AP to shoot a gun and bought a second gun for a reason, to get her silence. All of this played out over MONTHS as he set the lure and trap.

They swapped out their phones days before the planned lure because there was incriminating evidence on them. He's trained in criminal electronic forensics after all.

Then they got the blood cleaned up and moved AP into CB's side of the bed, CB's side of the closet and swapped out the photos in the frames. They went to see FOB and to NYC and to dinner and for drinks, not really grief stricken or traumatized.

Joe told people where he would be. He has no history of harming women. He had no motive. BB and AP wanted CB unalive and out of the way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like it isn't really clear what the theory is on HOW/WHEN CB was killed.

I had assumed that BB stabbed CB before he left, then the nanny left. Then JR came into the house and found CB -- and shortly thereafter, BB came into the room.

But, this begs the question of why JR stayed in the room upon finding CB in a near dead state. Why didn't JR leave before BB arrived?

No one heard CB screaming when BB went into the bedroom.

So, was CB unconscious when JR arrived, and when BB came into the room? When exactly was CB stabbed? Was it before JR arrived or after BB shot JR the first time?

The pjs and scratches suggest she was alive and unstabbed when Joe arrived. The scene planned by BB, JR and CB started. Then BB shot Joe, then AP shot Joe and then CB must have been stabbed. AP called 911, then hung up. When the 2 were closer to death they called 911 back. Both were alive at that point, JR was heard on the call and CB was alive until hospital.

How does it fit into BB's plan that JR is arriving and meeting with CB for something sexual -- if BB is not at the house? From what PPs have described, typically the husband sets up some sort of sexual event with the wife and I assume the husband wants to watch??? From CB's understanding, what would be the point of her agreeing to meet with JR if BB isn't even there? Even if she was convinced to do this by BB as a bday "present" -- how does BB get the "present" if he's not home when the meet up is arranged.

This seems to be a pretty big hole in any murder conspiracy and strongly suggests BB was not part of CB and JR’s “arrangement.”

I don't see this as a hole at all. The scenario is BB comes and walks in on them because "he forgot his lunch (ahem) at home" all part of the cuck. This is why Joe told people it was a cuck situation and not just meeting up with a woman. CB thought BB was coming back to be part of the role play.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the gun(s) were part of the role play plan.

Do you think Joe was in on the part of the plan where BB arrives home to "save" his wife? If yes, that would be easy to prove because it would be in the messages sent between the CB account and Joe. If no, then CB would need to agree to a plan where she lured a stranger with a knife to her house to have her unarmed husband arrive to save her.

I think BB didn't know about Joe. The AP catches CB/Joe and calls BB. BB arrives and confronts them. Joe stabs CB, BB shots Joe, AP watches. While BB is trying to save CB, AP shots Joe

Now why the second gun? Maybe BB was trained to never turn his service weapon over to anyone so he asks AP to grab the second gun.
Why is Joe referred to as a victim? Because he was invited to the house and asked to bring a knife. He was shot while incapacitated on the floor
Why did LE question if CB was the one who used the account? Because friends and family believe it would be out of character for her to engage in sex fantasies with a stranger, especially involving a knife. I think a lot of families and friends would be surprised by what goes on behind closed doors.

This is all speculation but I can now see a situation where it all fits together after the new facts were revealed this week.

The bolded statement is not true. It is not necessary for CB to agree to BB pulling out his gun. It is not necessary for JR to know about a gun being part of the situation. CB and JR might have thought that the plan was to "role play" a rape-type scene that BB either wanted to watch, or that BB would interrupt by "saving" CB. Maybe CB and JR thought there would be a "role play" fight b/c BB and JR. Nobody HAD to know about the gun except BB -- who knew that he was going to bring the gun so that he could shoot JR.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like it isn't really clear what the theory is on HOW/WHEN CB was killed.

I had assumed that BB stabbed CB before he left, then the nanny left. Then JR came into the house and found CB -- and shortly thereafter, BB came into the room.

But, this begs the question of why JR stayed in the room upon finding CB in a near dead state. Why didn't JR leave before BB arrived?

No one heard CB screaming when BB went into the bedroom.

So, was CB unconscious when JR arrived, and when BB came into the room? When exactly was CB stabbed? Was it before JR arrived or after BB shot JR the first time?

The pjs and scratches suggest she was alive and unstabbed when Joe arrived. The scene planned by BB, JR and CB started. Then BB shot Joe, then AP shot Joe and then CB must have been stabbed. AP called 911, then hung up. When the 2 were closer to death they called 911 back. Both were alive at that point, JR was heard on the call and CB was alive until hospital.

How does it fit into BB's plan that JR is arriving and meeting with CB for something sexual -- if BB is not at the house? From what PPs have described, typically the husband sets up some sort of sexual event with the wife and I assume the husband wants to watch??? From CB's understanding, what would be the point of her agreeing to meet with JR if BB isn't even there? Even if she was convinced to do this by BB as a bday "present" -- how does BB get the "present" if he's not home when the meet up is arranged.

This seems to be a pretty big hole in any murder conspiracy and strongly suggests BB was not part of CB and JR’s “arrangement.”

Maybe they had done something like this before. If not, BB likely started wearing her down months before, like the DH of OP here. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1195354.page

That OP is upset at even the idea but her DH and many posters kept pressuring her. So, happens. Of course, BB wasn't doing it for d*ck feelz but for a ruse. Once CB was on board, he taught AP to shoot, bought the 2nd gun and he trolled for Joe online. There were likely communications with JR that CB was not part of that the Commonwealth has alluded to the "tone" of. The date may have been chosen due to his birthday the day before.

Plan was for Joe to come over, house empty but for CB. So, she likely bought the tickets and sent AP and DD. But, would she have done any of this without lead/pressure of BB? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm guessing BB was supposed to "come home" so that would be expected. Knife play was brought up even though JR had not done it. Had to have that weapon brought by him with his fingerprints on it. By sending a photo, perhaps BB acquired the same brand/size and used that, leaving the knife with JR's prints untouched. He took a very long time to think through details, maybe much of AP's first year in his house imho.

I’m not out to get BB and AP. I hope he wasn’t involved, for the sake of his child. But to believe their version of events means everyone that day was making irrational and non-sensical decisions.

1. It just doesn’t make sense that JR would tell people about the rendezvous, spend time planning it, park his car in their driveway and then suddenly and inexplicably murder a woman.

2. I believe their story is that the AP saw a car in the driveway and believed it was a home invasion. At like 8 AM. Literally no one would assume “home invasion” on those facts. Maybe she heard sounds coming from the house. But then why on earth would you bring a CHILD into the house?!

3. Assuming CB really was into kinky stuff and extramarital sex and stuff, who does that at 8 am, at their residence?! And she plans the rendezvous with such detail but doesn’t ensure that her husband and Au pair are gone with no chance of coming home? I know she planned a zoo outing for the Au pair, but you’d think she would’ve firmly told the AP to stay away from the house between the hours of 8 and 10 AM. Because kids are fickle and sometimes they do come back to the house for stuff like a forgotten lunch, potty accident, etc etc. And wouldn’t she want some time before her sex boy shows up to get ready, once everyone is out of the house? Like even assuming she did set up the rendezvous, she’s still not acting like a rational person would in setting it up.

4. BB. So Au pair calls him, tells him there’s a strange car in the driveway and he decides to come home. If he was concerned enough to come home, why on earth wouldn’t he tell the AP to take the child somewhere else, like a park or a coffee shop? How was he ok with his child entering the residence with an unknown person there, if their story is they thought CB was in danger? And then his behavior after that day is not normal. Living in the house, moving the Au pair into the master bedroom with him, not cooperating with the police, paying for the Au pair’s attorney. Just doesn’t make sense.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the gun(s) were part of the role play plan.

Do you think Joe was in on the part of the plan where BB arrives home to "save" his wife? If yes, that would be easy to prove because it would be in the messages sent between the CB account and Joe. If no, then CB would need to agree to a plan where she lured a stranger with a knife to her house to have her unarmed husband arrive to save her.

I think BB didn't know about Joe. The AP catches CB/Joe and calls BB. BB arrives and confronts them. Joe stabs CB, BB shots Joe, AP watches. While BB is trying to save CB, AP shots Joe

Now why the second gun? Maybe BB was trained to never turn his service weapon over to anyone so he asks AP to grab the second gun.
Why is Joe referred to as a victim? Because he was invited to the house and asked to bring a knife. He was shot while incapacitated on the floor
Why did LE question if CB was the one who used the account? Because friends and family believe it would be out of character for her to engage in sex fantasies with a stranger, especially involving a knife. I think a lot of families and friends would be surprised by what goes on behind closed doors.

This is all speculation but I can now see a situation where it all fits together after the new facts were revealed this week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my mind, I didn't imagine that CB was aware of the plan for JR to come over. But, I guess BB could have portrayed it to CB as "let's invite this guy over to play like he's attacking you and then I'll come in with my gun drawn to 'save' you ... " as part of a joint fantasy. That would fit with the claims that BB said "put down the knife!" and then JR said "put down the gun!" -- those are things that CB might have expected to be part of the "scene" they set up.

AP would have had to have been close by when BB's gun was drawn b/c BB shot JR pretty quickly.

There was some info. that there were "sounds of flesh being hit" -- maybe that was BB stabbing CB -- and maybe he did that before shooting JR. (JR thinking this was part of an acting job, not an actual stabbing???)

It gets so complicated trying to lay out a logical sequence based on each person's perspective!

So you think CB agreed to a plan where they invited over a stranger with a knife to then surprise him by pulling a gun on him? Even if CB believed the intention was to create that fantasy, Joe would have had to be in on it or else you are pulling a gun on a stranger who has a knife next to you naked defenseless wife. I'd also imagine they have phone records between the AP and BB so the AP would have had to be in on it to initiate the call to get BB home.

I was suggesting that maybe all three (JR, BB, and CB) had a plan for JR to act like he is threatening to CB and it was part of the plan for BB to arrive just in time to "save" CB from the "intruder" (i.e. JR who was role-playing as a threatening intruder).

As for AP -- maybe CB knew that BB was planning to come back to the house to "catch" CB and JR in the role-play situation. At the same time, BB arranged for AP to "call" him back to the house so that her alibi for being there made sense. Both could be true. BB could tell CB to expect him back at the house. BB could also tell AP that she needs to call him to come back to the house.

If CB was un-stabbed and gettin' jiggy with JR when AP and BB came back into the house -- wouldn't CB be surprised to hear people in the house (door opening, someone coming up the stairs) and quickly hide JR -- UNLESS she expected to hear sounds thinking it was BB (as part of their role-play).

It gets very confusing when you try to piece together people's expectations/behaviors based on lies they've been told + people's actual expectations/behavior based on their own devious plans.

I think the forensic analysis of the scene re: location of CB and JR, any defensive wounds on CB's hands, blood splatter on BB and materials in the room --- would be very helpful in piecing together when CB was stabbed.

I don't think the gun(s) were part of the role play plan.

Anonymous wrote:It’s incredible that all of the actual evidence provided thus far points to CB having a BDSM sexual relationship with JR, yet all of you play mental gymnastics to twist this around on her husband.

JR was the only murderer in this case.

So you're saying JR murdered CB (possibility), then was shot by BB+AP (fact according to both sides). BB+AP proceeds to continue their affair (fact), AP then officially moves in (fact) and sleeps in the same room CB was murdered in (fact) while BB switches all of CB's photos in the house to the AP's (fact)? You don't think BB+AP's actions AFTER the murder raise any suspicions to you at all?

I haven't even brought up the shooting range visit and the disposal of their phones PRIOR to the murder.

Anonymous wrote:If CB was fully in on this plan it doesn’t make sense that she had planned JR’s arrival so close to the AP’s planned departure. AP couldn’t have been gone more than 5-10 mins before she “returned to retrieve the forgotten lunches”.

On things that don't make sense from a planning prespective, I'd put this pretty far down the list. If CB and Joe were eager to make it happen the plan may have been for him to wait for the AP to leave then come in. Wait for X to leave then come on in is a pretty normal plan.

Anonymous wrote:In my mind, I didn't imagine that CB was aware of the plan for JR to come over. But, I guess BB could have portrayed it to CB as "let's invite this guy over to play like he's attacking you and then I'll come in with my gun drawn to 'save' you ... " as part of a joint fantasy. That would fit with the claims that BB said "put down the knife!" and then JR said "put down the gun!" -- those are things that CB might have expected to be part of the "scene" they set up.

AP would have had to have been close by when BB's gun was drawn b/c BB shot JR pretty quickly.

There was some info. that there were "sounds of flesh being hit" -- maybe that was BB stabbing CB -- and maybe he did that before shooting JR. (JR thinking this was part of an acting job, not an actual stabbing???)

It gets so complicated trying to lay out a logical sequence based on each person's perspective!

So you think CB agreed to a plan where they invited over a stranger with a knife to then surprise him by pulling a gun on him? Even if CB believed the intention was to create that fantasy, Joe would have had to be in on it or else you are pulling a gun on a stranger who has a knife next to you naked defenseless wife. I'd also imagine they have phone records between the AP and BB so the AP would have had to be in on it to initiate the call to get BB home.

If CB was fully in on this plan it doesn’t make sense that she had planned JR’s arrival so close to the AP’s planned departure. AP couldn’t have been gone more than 5-10 mins before she “returned to retrieve the forgotten lunches”.

In my mind, I didn't imagine that CB was aware of the plan for JR to come over. But, I guess BB could have portrayed it to CB as "let's invite this guy over to play like he's attacking you and then I'll come in with my gun drawn to 'save' you ... " as part of a joint fantasy. That would fit with the claims that BB said "put down the knife!" and then JR said "put down the gun!" -- those are things that CB might have expected to be part of the "scene" they set up.

AP would have had to have been close by when BB's gun was drawn b/c BB shot JR pretty quickly.

There was some info. that there were "sounds of flesh being hit" -- maybe that was BB stabbing CB -- and maybe he did that before shooting JR. (JR thinking this was part of an acting job, not an actual stabbing???)

It gets so complicated trying to lay out a logical sequence based on each person's perspective!

Anonymous wrote:Is there any way that CB had no involvement in JR coming over and that she was not willfully engaged in anything with JR?

Was JR clothed at the time he was shot?

JR was fully clothed.

I don't see how CB had no involvement unless they completely spoofed accounts on the websites and phone calls.