So let me summarize the constant bickering here:

Top tournament dominant > top tournament weak > small tournament winners
vs.
Top tournament dominant > Small tournament winner > top tournament weak

AND

VLC belongs to one of the elites vs. VLC does not belong to one of the elites.

AND

VLC lost it/it's a joke now/will suck going forward vs. VLC is still competitive/recruits/worthwhile to play for although it may not be elite

You are spot on. What matters is that you show that you can make a good play against a better team and that you personally can hold your own and excel against high level competition even if the other team has the ball for the majority of the game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is just so very misinformed especially at the level of the 2024s. When you go to tournaments like NLF and play teams like Prime Time and Eclipse your sophomore and junior summers the sidelines are packet with college coaches who don't care who wins or loses. Losing against high level teams at high level tournaments is MUCH more valuable than playing in a lower bracket and winning. Good clubs understand this and can get into these tournaments. That is where recruiting really cranks up. Yes coaches are at showcases and at their own money grab camps but seeing a player against great competition playing as a team player with his actual team is most telling about overall talent.

Sure thing, bro. Except VLC loves to tout the greatness of their "player development". Obviously they haven't managed to develop these players so that they are competitive against high-level teams.

I'm sure if you are an attack player who wants to get recruited, you love being at a tournament where you never get the ball because it's always on the other side of the field, and when you do get the ball you are trying to penetrate a rested defense. That's really going to show the recruiters what you can do! You'll definitely want to send an email after the tournament to the college coaches - "did you see me score one of the three points against Annapolis Hawks during our 10-3 defeat?" lmao.

Another point is, OK, VLC got into the high level tournament. But they lacked the good judgement to put the team in the proper bracket so they don't get thrashed. They would be just as visible in a more competitive bracket.

You obviously know nothing about the sport, the recruiting process and probably never played college sports. If your team got beat by the Hawks that would never be something the coach would see or care about. However, if you score against the Hawks that shows up on your highlight reel, So yes, did you see me score against the Hawks would be something a player would definitely send to a coach.

Now, let's look at numbers. Greg Gurenlian just posted on Instagram a stat designed to relax some face off athletes, and it is interesting. 77 D1 programs, 81 D2 programs, and 245 D3 programs. 403 total NCAA men's lacrosse programs. So if you want to play at the next level (college), there is likely an opportunity for you, regardless of what club you play for in high school. It is up to the player to publicize themselves and engage the coaches of the teams they want to play for. Not everyone wants to, or needs to, play for UVA, UMD, Hopkins, Syracuse, etc. There is some really good lacrosse, and more importantly, holistic college opportunities, at other schools.

The meaningful stat is that there are about 115,000 male high school lax players and 18,000 college players. That means 15% chance to play in college anywhere, and 3% chance to play D1. Those odds are slightly better than they look because not every high school player will try to get recruited, and some players will decline to play lacrosse if they only get offers from academically inferior schools. Nevertheless, it is clearly not true that you will "likely" play D1/D2/D3 lacrosse in college.

Completely agree that "It is up to the player to publicize themselves and engage the coaches of the teams they want to play for."

Correct on tight schedules. They are scheduling the better teams bc better players make for winning records. Better records leads to more eyes. Players from bad teams barely get looked at and better be really outstanding instead of just being a good player on a bad t team.

Anonymous wrote:That makes absolutely no sense and you sound like an idiot. Wins and losses don't matter--being on a team where you can be seen playing at top tournaments does matter, more in fact than showcases and college camps. Have you ever actually stood on the sidelines lined with college coaches?

It's better to be seen kicking ass than getting your ass kicked. Who do you think is more likely to get recruited, the kids on the team that annihilated VLC or the kids on VLC who were being annihilated?

Anonymous wrote:That is just so very misinformed especially at the level of the 2024s. When you go to tournaments like NLF and play teams like Prime Time and Eclipse your sophomore and junior summers the sidelines are packet with college coaches who don't care who wins or loses. Losing against high level teams at high level tournaments is MUCH more valuable than playing in a lower bracket and winning. Good clubs understand this and can get into these tournaments. That is where recruiting really cranks up. Yes coaches are at showcases and at their own money grab camps but seeing a player against great competition playing as a team player with his actual team is most telling about overall talent.

Sure thing, bro. Except VLC loves to tout the greatness of their "player development". Obviously they haven't managed to develop these players so that they are competitive against high-level teams.

I'm sure if you are an attack player who wants to get recruited, you love being at a tournament where you never get the ball because it's always on the other side of the field, and when you do get the ball you are trying to penetrate a rested defense. That's really going to show the recruiters what you can do! You'll definitely want to send an email after the tournament to the college coaches - "did you see me score one of the three points against Annapolis Hawks during our 10-3 defeat?" lmao.

Another point is, OK, VLC got into the high level tournament. But they lacked the good judgement to put the team in the proper bracket so they don't get thrashed. They would be just as visible in a more competitive bracket.

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is more irritating than to listen to these VLC apologists say that club record doesn’t matter. If that’s so then just go to show cases and camps.

Not an apologist at all. There are plenty of things wrong with VLC, across all age groups and the administration of the club. But you saying that club record is the measure of success of the club, especially at the high school age groups, clearly demonstrates you don't know what colleges are looking for. College coaches could care less who wins or loses the games they are watching. What they are looking for is how the kids they are scouting play, how they react to different situations both winning and losing, and if the kid is a fit for their program. The coaches rarely watch a full game. They have a tight schedule of different players they want to see and will jump from field to field, mid game, to see the players live instead of just the highlight tape. It is also very rare to be noticed by a coach without prior contact. They don't go to games looking to find players. They go to games to see players that have reached out to them, provided their schedule, etc..

The advantage VLC/Crabs has right now over other local clubs is access to the tournaments and show cases where the college coaches attend and watch games. So, if you play for another club, you need to make it worthwhile for the coach of the program you are interested in to come see you. That can be a difficult task.

That makes absolutely no sense and you sound like an idiot. Wins and losses don't matter--being on a team where you can be seen playing at top tournaments does matter, more in fact than showcases and college camps. Have you ever actually stood on the sidelines lined with college coaches?

Nothing is more irritating than to listen to these VLC apologists say that club record doesn’t matter. If that’s so then just go to show cases and camps.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.usclublax.com/association_info.php?a=2139

Here's last season. Truly a mediocre record. Even what's supposedly their best team (2026) isn't that good at 12-8-2.

The high school junior teams (2024), which should represent the pinnacle of VLC's vaunted "player development", are just terrible. DiCo 5-8-5 and Whelchel 0-4-0.

And as for 2025, Inman went 5-22 (lmao) and Mabry 8-11-2. No wonder nobody on those teams wanted to come back this year, if that is actually true.

At the very least, the club has seriously miscategorized the brackets the teams play in at each tournament. I'm sure the boys enjoyed being the punching bag team for the bracket they were in.

Great stats and way to pull the results. But game results don't matter, although it does feel better to win rather than to lose. Talk to any college coach. They don't care if the team you are on wins or loses. They want to see you play and determine if you are a fit for their program. Yes, it does help if you are in the "higher level" tournaments. That does show how you can play against the "higher level" players. But team results on the high school club circuit just don't matter for college recruiting.

Now, let's look at numbers. Greg Gurenlian just posted on Instagram a stat designed to relax some face off athletes, and it is interesting. 77 D1 programs, 81 D2 programs, and 245 D3 programs. 403 total NCAA men's lacrosse programs. So if you want to play at the next level (college), there is likely an opportunity for you, regardless of what club you play for in high school. It is up to the player to publicize themselves and engage the coaches of the teams they want to play for. Not everyone wants to, or needs to, play for UVA, UMD, Hopkins, Syracuse, etc. There is some really good lacrosse, and more importantly, holistic college opportunities, at other schools.

That is just so very misinformed especially at the level of the 2024s. When you go to tournaments like NLF and play teams like Prime Time and Eclipse your sophomore and junior summers the sidelines are packet with college coaches who don't care who wins or loses. Losing against high level teams at high level tournaments is MUCH more valuable than playing in a lower bracket and winning. Good clubs understand this and can get into these tournaments. That is where recruiting really cranks up. Yes coaches are at showcases and at their own money grab camps but seeing a player against great competition playing as a team player with his actual team is most telling about overall talent.

https://www.usclublax.com/association_info.php?a=2139

Here's last season. Truly a mediocre record. Even what's supposedly their best team (2026) isn't that good at 12-8-2.

The high school junior teams (2024), which should represent the pinnacle of VLC's vaunted "player development", are just terrible. DiCo 5-8-5 and Whelchel 0-4-0.

And as for 2025, Inman went 5-22 (lmao) and Mabry 8-11-2. No wonder nobody on those teams wanted to come back this year, if that is actually true.

At the very least, the club has seriously miscategorized the brackets the teams play in at each tournament. I'm sure the boys enjoyed being the punching bag team for the bracket they were in.

Folks here just want to be on a team that gets them into the big exposure tournaments, esp. at HS level (and that's fine). VLC has that, via its partnership with Crabs. But that's all you're going to get from Crabs. They are not going to get you better coaches, better fields, etc. That's up to the directors. Always has been. VLC used to have good directors, and some were excellent. I think the new directors assumed Crabs would take care of everything for them. That's not the way King Crab works.

I think one was a true VLC team and the "B" team was the Cavs players who joined. I suspect it was the Cavs group that left.