Anonymous wrote:These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

Do you know the difference between implode and explode? Or what implosion under that kind of pressure would be like? Imagine a bomb going off, but instead of the forces going outward (explosion), they go inward (implosion). It was sudden and violent, definitely not like drowning as the sub slowly filled up with water.

These are pretty sizable pieces of the sub, with wires intact. And now “human remains”? Perhaps their death wasn’t as instant and painless as we suspect

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Anonymous wrote:The mother of the kid was on the mothership waiting all that time for the submersible to return. Apparently she was meant to go with her husband and gave the seat to her kid instead - a sacrifice she shouldn’t have made and which she undoubtedly will forever regret. Better two middle aged fools die than for their teenager to be snuffed out before he’s even lived.

CNN article/interview with the mother:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/world/christine-dawood-interview-titan-submersible-scli-intl/index.html

I find this choppy and poorly written. I do feel terrible for her and her family.

But I also heard this story on NPR this morning and can't help but think how much of a difference $500k would make to a family like this:

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184268046/migrant-dad-trying-to-help-his-ill-child-is-one-of-many-presume-dead-in-ship-sin

Yes it all feels so wasteful and tragic. All the money to get in the submersible, all the resources spent on the search effort and now to recover the wreckage, etc. The end result is five lives lost. All of those resources could have literally changed people’s lives who are suffering.

Well, I don't see it as money wasted. Underwater tourism was (and still is) unregulated sector. This incident will bring more regulations so it doesn't happen again.

It seems as though they got around the regulation issue, because it was in international waters, and because the craft was built in one country and launched from another. I wonder how those issues will be addressed.

Those are (and many more) the issues this incident will bubble up. The are many issues CEO bypassed - from poor engineering, regs, lack of testing...etc. Someone should be asking how this thing even hit the water to begin with??

It's not like this was its maiden voyage. It made multiple dives before, and people lived to tell about it.

The damage was cumulative…as he was warned.

Obviously these submersibles can’t be treated like tour buses. I wonder if it is even possible to maintain them over time or if they just have to be regularly broken down and then rebuilt from scratch?

Navy dry docks ships/submarines to perform maintenance. If this vessel was tested, a proper maintenance plan could’ve been developed. Obviously the CEO guy didn’t believe that.

Also, what would maintenance be on this thing. The carbon fiber hull and the joins to it are critical. How would they know if the hull was delaminating. How would they know if the epoxy joins were failing. To do this thing safely, they'd have to replace the hull regularly. They can't just patch it. It wasn't feasible from a financial standpoint to maintain this thing.

This type of hull can be checked with CT scans. I’m sure that comes at a pretty penny so it may have been better to just make a new one every x amount of dives. The problem is that they never tested how many dives would be the limit for it.

From what I read there was no way to check the carbon fiber tube. They were trying to come up with ways.

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Anonymous wrote:The mother of the kid was on the mothership waiting all that time for the submersible to return. Apparently she was meant to go with her husband and gave the seat to her kid instead - a sacrifice she shouldn’t have made and which she undoubtedly will forever regret. Better two middle aged fools die than for their teenager to be snuffed out before he’s even lived.

CNN article/interview with the mother:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/world/christine-dawood-interview-titan-submersible-scli-intl/index.html

I find this choppy and poorly written. I do feel terrible for her and her family.

But I also heard this story on NPR this morning and can't help but think how much of a difference $500k would make to a family like this:

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184268046/migrant-dad-trying-to-help-his-ill-child-is-one-of-many-presume-dead-in-ship-sin

Yes it all feels so wasteful and tragic. All the money to get in the submersible, all the resources spent on the search effort and now to recover the wreckage, etc. The end result is five lives lost. All of those resources could have literally changed people’s lives who are suffering.

Well, I don't see it as money wasted. Underwater tourism was (and still is) unregulated sector. This incident will bring more regulations so it doesn't happen again.

It seems as though they got around the regulation issue, because it was in international waters, and because the craft was built in one country and launched from another. I wonder how those issues will be addressed.

Those are (and many more) the issues this incident will bubble up. The are many issues CEO bypassed - from poor engineering, regs, lack of testing...etc. Someone should be asking how this thing even hit the water to begin with??

It's not like this was its maiden voyage. It made multiple dives before, and people lived to tell about it.

The damage was cumulative…as he was warned.

Obviously these submersibles can’t be treated like tour buses. I wonder if it is even possible to maintain them over time or if they just have to be regularly broken down and then rebuilt from scratch?

Navy dry docks ships/submarines to perform maintenance. If this vessel was tested, a proper maintenance plan could’ve been developed. Obviously the CEO guy didn’t believe that.

Also, what would maintenance be on this thing. The carbon fiber hull and the joins to it are critical. How would they know if the hull was delaminating. How would they know if the epoxy joins were failing. To do this thing safely, they'd have to replace the hull regularly. They can't just patch it. It wasn't feasible from a financial standpoint to maintain this thing.

Engineers would know enough about the materials used to know how to come up with a maintenance plan. In this case, it could require complete overhaul every x dives. Any after overhaul, most likely require a predive inspection too. So, yes, multiple levels of inspections and certifications which cost money and time. Exactly what CEO wanted to avoid and ended up dead.

By complete overhall I assume that means a new tube and a new viewing port etc. They probably could not afford to do that. It really sounds like they were designed for a few uses then discarded. That's not sustainable from a financial perspective.

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Anonymous wrote:Amazing how much taxpayer money is being spent to "investigate" 5 billionaires getting into some experimental carbon fiber sub and pulverizing themselves 10,000 feet under the surface of the ocean. Meanwhile, tens of millions of low to mid-income public school kids have fallen a grade or more behind because of the covid nonsense. Maybe we should focus on a search and rescue mission for them.

+100

Spend this money on something that will directly and immediately better the lives of a large portion of Americans. Not rich underwater tourists.

-1000

This money is being spent on something that directly and immediately betters my life. I'm an American, but not a rich underwater tourist. This is money well spent.

But the estates of the passengers should be billed for the costs. This is not a normal trip or anything. It was a totally unnecessary fancy “i can tell people i went down to see the titanic” trip. Mother ship called for help when contacts were lost, requesting assistance. Their estates should be billed absolutely. When undertaking these idiotic adventures, people should 1) be forced to get insurance to pay costs of rescue or 2) dont call for help when they are in trouble or 3) reimburse costs for rescue

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Anonymous wrote:Amazing how much taxpayer money is being spent to "investigate" 5 billionaires getting into some experimental carbon fiber sub and pulverizing themselves 10,000 feet under the surface of the ocean. Meanwhile, tens of millions of low to mid-income public school kids have fallen a grade or more behind because of the covid nonsense. Maybe we should focus on a search and rescue mission for them.

+100

Spend this money on something that will directly and immediately better the lives of a large portion of Americans. Not rich underwater tourists.

-1000

This money is being spent on something that directly and immediately betters my life. I'm an American, but not a rich underwater tourist. This is money well spent.

How does this immediately better your life?

It's an interesting story, it gave me something to be hopeful for a week, and it's provided me a fascinating education on physics and the materials used in deep sea diving.

An interesting story? Five people died. You sound very callous.

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how we are able to bring up the pieces so quickly when everyone was saying that it would be impossible to bring up the sub itself if it had been lost and not imploded.

You don’t understand how bringing up pieces of the vessel is easier versus the whole vessel? 23,000lbs when it was intact.

I don't understand how we are able to bring up the pieces so quickly when everyone was saying that it would be impossible to bring up the sub itself if it had been lost and not imploded.

Anonymous wrote:It's good to know that if I ever want to do something ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe and it goes horribly wrong that multiple governments will spend millions of dollars to try to rescue me despite early knowledge that I'm likely already dead. And if I happen to have billions of dollars myself none of that will be required to reimburse the millions of taxpayers dollars already spent on the failed rescue mission.

I have to assume this “rescue mission” was part of a broader unplanned training exercise. All of our technologies were brought to bear, someone demonstrated technology that can find and haul ships off the ocean bottom, and lessons were learned. Next time around won’t get any more attention than a life raft adrift with migrants.

Anonymous wrote:It's good to know that if I ever want to do something ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe and it goes horribly wrong that multiple governments will spend millions of dollars to try to rescue me despite early knowledge that I'm likely already dead. And if I happen to have billions of dollars myself none of that will be required to reimburse the millions of taxpayers dollars already spent on the failed rescue mission.

Most importantly, it will make for a good news story.

Yeah I just saw that too.

Presumed human remains found near the debris of the sub:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/06/28/americas/titan-submersible-debris-st-johns/index.html

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Anonymous wrote:It's good to know that if I ever want to do something ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe and it goes horribly wrong that multiple governments will spend millions of dollars to try to rescue me despite early knowledge that I'm likely already dead. And if I happen to have billions of dollars myself none of that will be required to reimburse the millions of taxpayers dollars already spent on the failed rescue mission.

Yep. But this was common knowledge before this event as well.

This is nothing new. If you want to bring drugs to Russia the government will bend over backwards to get you home. We are constantly bailing out Americans up to no good around the world.

Anonymous wrote:It's good to know that if I ever want to do something ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe and it goes horribly wrong that multiple governments will spend millions of dollars to try to rescue me despite early knowledge that I'm likely already dead. And if I happen to have billions of dollars myself none of that will be required to reimburse the millions of taxpayers dollars already spent on the failed rescue mission.

Yep. But this was common knowledge before this event as well.

It's good to know that if I ever want to do something ridiculously unnecessary and unsafe and it goes horribly wrong that multiple governments will spend millions of dollars to try to rescue me despite early knowledge that I'm likely already dead. And if I happen to have billions of dollars myself none of that will be required to reimburse the millions of taxpayers dollars already spent on the failed rescue mission.