Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a dumb more by Democrats to go for impeachment.

Check out what Willie Brown says:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/williesworld/article/Impeachment-a-winner-for-Democrats-Don-t-bet-14803559.php

Totally asinine.

Pelosi, who is politically astute, knew it was a dumb move but she felt cornered by the loony left who will be the downfall of the Democratic party.

I think Pelosi thought Republicans would come to their senses but no, they stand behind the crooked PoS Trump. Sad!

There are still some wildcards out there. When SDNY indicts Giuliani for crimes he committed for Trump, what effect will that have? Will Sondland and the others whose testimony was refuted by the NSC witnesses correct their perjuries or risk taking the fall for Trump?

SDNY is as partisan as they come

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But you will have bragging rights that we impeached Trump in a partisan vote and who was then overwhelmingly acquitted in the senate.

I find it hard to believe you are a Democrat and not a troll.

Yes, I must be a Russian bot because I am not willing to go along with group-think!

No. We think you're a troll because you're so willing to ditch The Constitution for a charlatan, like Trump. Is this really the pathetic fool for which you want to give up the rule of law and democracy?

Stating a contrary viewpoint does not make one a troll. My primary interest is in winning the next election ..... not falling on my sword to make a point.

You better hope the impeachment gambit pays off:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/poll-trump-beats-democrats-swing-state-biden-warren-sanders.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.


I never supported Clinton's impeachment but the guy lied under oath. Should he have been impeached for it? Not in my opinion but Republicans, who were interested in it for political reasons, went for it knowing full well that he would not be removed. Now Democrats are doing the same thing knowing full well that Trump will not be removed.



Trump is a real and present danger to the USA and global stability. He encourages corruption and bribery, has a fascination for dictatorships, and openly criticizes perceived domestic opponents and international allies. That is SO MUCH WORSE than what Clinton did that you discredit yourself by even comparing the two.

I agree with this. However, and I say this as a Democrat who voted for Clinton twice---the Dems support of Clinton regardless of the fact he lied under oath is what has now brought us down the slippery slope to the bottom feeding, utterly amoral sh^^bird who is our current president. With the benefit of hindsight, I now think that the Dems would have been better off to have forced Clinton to resign and had Al Gore become president. Yes, Clinton's lying about his sexual peccadilloes with willing participants is nothing compared to Trump's determination to steer us into fascist corrupt autocracy. And Trump's acceptance of Russian election interference and active extortion of Ukraine to smear his domestic political rival is EXACTLY the type of behavior to which Alexander Hamilton intended the impeachment clause apply. But now the Republicans ---many of whom are either scared of their base or outright compromised by dirty NRA/Russian $$--are going to use the Democrats blind loyalty to Clinton despite his perjury as an excuse to acquit Trump---who in any sane universe should be removed immediately.

As a former R, I'm not sure I agree with this. Clinton shouldn't have been asked that question under oath. The Republicans were wrong.

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.


I never supported Clinton's impeachment but the guy lied under oath. Should he have been impeached for it? Not in my opinion but Republicans, who were interested in it for political reasons, went for it knowing full well that he would not be removed. Now Democrats are doing the same thing knowing full well that Trump will not be removed.



Trump is a real and present danger to the USA and global stability. He encourages corruption and bribery, has a fascination for dictatorships, and openly criticizes perceived domestic opponents and international allies. That is SO MUCH WORSE than what Clinton did that you discredit yourself by even comparing the two.

I agree with this. However, and I say this as a Democrat who voted for Clinton twice---the Dems support of Clinton regardless of the fact he lied under oath is what has now brought us down the slippery slope to the bottom feeding, utterly amoral sh^^bird who is our current president. With the benefit of hindsight, I now think that the Dems would have been better off to have forced Clinton to resign and had Al Gore become president. Yes, Clinton's lying about his sexual peccadilloes with willing participants is nothing compared to Trump's determination to steer us into fascist corrupt autocracy. And Trump's acceptance of Russian election interference and active extortion of Ukraine to smear his domestic political rival is EXACTLY the type of behavior to which Alexander Hamilton intended the impeachment clause apply. But now the Republicans ---many of whom are either scared of their base or outright compromised by dirty NRA/Russian $$--are going to use the Democrats blind loyalty to Clinton despite his perjury as an excuse to acquit Trump---who in any sane universe should be removed immediately.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.

I never supported Clinton's impeachment but the guy lied under oath. Should he have been impeached for it? Not in my opinion but Republicans, who were interested in it for political reasons, went for it knowing full well that he would not be removed. Now Democrats are doing the same thing knowing full well that Trump will not be removed.

Are you trying to equate the two situations? Really?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.

I never supported Clinton's impeachment but the guy lied under oath. Should he have been impeached for it? Not in my opinion but Republicans, who were interested in it for political reasons, went for it knowing full well that he would not be removed. Now Democrats are doing the same thing knowing full well that Trump will not be removed.

Trump is a real and present danger to the USA and global stability. He encourages corruption and bribery, has a fascination for dictatorships, and openly criticizes perceived domestic opponents and international allies. That is SO MUCH WORSE than what Clinton did that you discredit yourself by even comparing the two.

And we cannot risk him getting a second term. He will destroy this country given the chance and no need to face reelection.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.

I never supported Clinton's impeachment but the guy lied under oath. Should he have been impeached for it? Not in my opinion but Republicans, who were interested in it for political reasons, went for it knowing full well that he would not be removed. Now Democrats are doing the same thing knowing full well that Trump will not be removed.

Trump is a real and present danger to the USA and global stability. He encourages corruption and bribery, has a fascination for dictatorships, and openly criticizes perceived domestic opponents and international allies. That is SO MUCH WORSE than what Clinton did that you discredit yourself by even comparing the two.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a dumb more by Democrats to go for impeachment.

Check out what Willie Brown says:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/williesworld/article/Impeachment-a-winner-for-Democrats-Don-t-bet-14803559.php

Totally asinine.

Pelosi, who is politically astute, knew it was a dumb move but she felt cornered by the loony left who will be the downfall of the Democratic party.

I think Pelosi thought Republicans would come to their senses but no, they stand behind the crooked PoS Trump. Sad!

There are still some wildcards out there. When SDNY indicts Giuliani for crimes he committed for Trump, what effect will that have? Will Sondland and the others whose testimony was refuted by the NSC witnesses correct their perjuries or risk taking the fall for Trump?

IMO, the only wildcard is if Trump's tax returns has something seriously damaging and the Supreme Court rules that the returns need to be made available to the SDNY. We may not get a ruling on this until well into next year.

Since the outcome in the Senate is so certain, it's interesting how frightened the GOP is of impeachment.

Frightened? You live in a fantasy world. Are you basing this on comments by "sources who wish to remain anonymous" that many Republican senators would like to vote for his removal? Perhaps it is those Republican senators who say they don't want to comment because they don't want to prejudge the issue. It is all b-s. The ONLY way Republican senators would vote for his removal is if Republican support for Trump totally collapsed. Republicans, like Democrats, ultimately are interested in their political survival.

Some Republican Senators are frightened because they know Trump is guilty, they despise having to defend him, and they know that history will correctly define them as cowards and hypocrites. The other Republican Senators are obedient idiots too stupid to realize how cartoonish they are. None of them want to vote because as long as they can put off voting, Trump and his people have to pretend to like them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If we lose the election and analysis shows that part of the reason was the reaction to the impeachment in the swing states, I hope you will recognize that reality and not rant about racism and deplorables.

Yes, I am a Democrat and I think this impeachment exercise is asinine. Trump will be acquitted in the Senate and will claim victory and will say it was a totally partisan move to damage him ........ and that message will likely get through to some independent voters. Of course, you can then rant about uneducated Trump supporters who are traitors, etc.

We should all be prepared to lose an election to stand for our principles. There is absolutely no question at all that impeachment is the right thing to do. It is for the history books. Four more years of Trump and some judge appointments do not have the same weight.

It's amazing how people cannot look past their own little immediate interests. Taking a stand for the integrity of the Republic is far more important than you or me, PP.

Please ...... this has nothing to do with integrity for most who vote for impeachment. Are you seriously suggesting that if the circumstances were reversed and we had a Democratic president who indulged in the same conduct, Democrats in Congress would be ranting for removal ........ or for that matter, the Republicans would not be making the same sort of arguments that the Democrats are today why that Democratic president should be impeached? No, Democrats would be making every excuse for why impeachment is not warranted.

My primary goal is to get a qualified Democrat in the White House. It would be foolhardy to take any action that does not accomplish that goal - and that is the point that Willie Brown is making. And that was Pelosi's reason for caution before she caved to pressure.

If you think Democrats would not be in favor of impeaching a Democrat who did all the crap Trump has done, you don't understand the party.

You are clueless and this combined with the likelihood that we may well nominate someone who is unelectable is why we may lose the next election. But you can then rant for the next four years about how a lot of ignorant yahoos voted for a fraud, a conman, a traitor and on and on.

But you will have bragging rights that we impeached Trump in a partisan vote and who was then overwhelmingly acquitted in the senate.

I find it hard to believe you are a Democrat and not a troll.

Yes, I must be a Russian bot because I am not willing to go along with group-think!

No. We think you're a troll because you're so willing to ditch The Constitution for a charlatan, like Trump. Is this really the pathetic fool for which you want to give up the rule of law and democracy?

Anonymous wrote:Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.

I never supported Clinton's impeachment but the guy lied under oath. Should he have been impeached for it? Not in my opinion but Republicans, who were interested in it for political reasons, went for it knowing full well that he would not be removed. Now Democrats are doing the same thing knowing full well that Trump will not be removed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If we lose the election and analysis shows that part of the reason was the reaction to the impeachment in the swing states, I hope you will recognize that reality and not rant about racism and deplorables.

Yes, I am a Democrat and I think this impeachment exercise is asinine. Trump will be acquitted in the Senate and will claim victory and will say it was a totally partisan move to damage him ........ and that message will likely get through to some independent voters. Of course, you can then rant about uneducated Trump supporters who are traitors, etc.

We should all be prepared to lose an election to stand for our principles. There is absolutely no question at all that impeachment is the right thing to do. It is for the history books. Four more years of Trump and some judge appointments do not have the same weight.

It's amazing how people cannot look past their own little immediate interests. Taking a stand for the integrity of the Republic is far more important than you or me, PP.

Please ...... this has nothing to do with integrity for most who vote for impeachment. Are you seriously suggesting that if the circumstances were reversed and we had a Democratic president who indulged in the same conduct, Democrats in Congress would be ranting for removal ........ or for that matter, the Republicans would not be making the same sort of arguments that the Democrats are today why that Democratic president should be impeached? No, Democrats would be making every excuse for why impeachment is not warranted.

My primary goal is to get a qualified Democrat in the White House. It would be foolhardy to take any action that does not accomplish that goal - and that is the point that Willie Brown is making. And that was Pelosi's reason for caution before she caved to pressure.

If you think Democrats would not be in favor of impeaching a Democrat who did all the crap Trump has done, you don't understand the party.

You are clueless and this combined with the likelihood that we may well nominate someone who is unelectable is why we may lose the next election. But you can then rant for the next four years about how a lot of ignorant yahoos voted for a fraud, a conman, a traitor and on and on.

But you will have bragging rights that we impeached Trump in a partisan vote and who was then overwhelmingly acquitted in the senate.

I find it hard to believe you are a Democrat and not a troll.

Yes, I must be a Russian bot because I am not willing to go along with group-think!

Big difference between lying about a blowjob and, well, the bribery, self-dealing and lying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Such a dumb more by Democrats to go for impeachment.

Check out what Willie Brown says:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/williesworld/article/Impeachment-a-winner-for-Democrats-Don-t-bet-14803559.php

Totally asinine.

Pelosi, who is politically astute, knew it was a dumb move but she felt cornered by the loony left who will be the downfall of the Democratic party.

I think Pelosi thought Republicans would come to their senses but no, they stand behind the crooked PoS Trump. Sad!

There are still some wildcards out there. When SDNY indicts Giuliani for crimes he committed for Trump, what effect will that have? Will Sondland and the others whose testimony was refuted by the NSC witnesses correct their perjuries or risk taking the fall for Trump?

IMO, the only wildcard is if Trump's tax returns has something seriously damaging and the Supreme Court rules that the returns need to be made available to the SDNY. We may not get a ruling on this until well into next year.

Since the outcome in the Senate is so certain, it's interesting how frightened the GOP is of impeachment.

Frightened? You live in a fantasy world. Are you basing this on comments by "sources who wish to remain anonymous" that many Republican senators would like to vote for his removal? Perhaps it is those Republican senators who say they don't want to comment because they don't want to prejudge the issue. It is all b-s. The ONLY way Republican senators would vote for his removal is if Republican support for Trump totally collapsed. Republicans, like Democrats, ultimately are interested in their political survival.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If we lose the election and analysis shows that part of the reason was the reaction to the impeachment in the swing states, I hope you will recognize that reality and not rant about racism and deplorables.

Yes, I am a Democrat and I think this impeachment exercise is asinine. Trump will be acquitted in the Senate and will claim victory and will say it was a totally partisan move to damage him ........ and that message will likely get through to some independent voters. Of course, you can then rant about uneducated Trump supporters who are traitors, etc.

We should all be prepared to lose an election to stand for our principles. There is absolutely no question at all that impeachment is the right thing to do. It is for the history books. Four more years of Trump and some judge appointments do not have the same weight.

It's amazing how people cannot look past their own little immediate interests. Taking a stand for the integrity of the Republic is far more important than you or me, PP.

Please ...... this has nothing to do with integrity for most who vote for impeachment. Are you seriously suggesting that if the circumstances were reversed and we had a Democratic president who indulged in the same conduct, Democrats in Congress would be ranting for removal ........ or for that matter, the Republicans would not be making the same sort of arguments that the Democrats are today why that Democratic president should be impeached? No, Democrats would be making every excuse for why impeachment is not warranted.

My primary goal is to get a qualified Democrat in the White House. It would be foolhardy to take any action that does not accomplish that goal - and that is the point that Willie Brown is making. And that was Pelosi's reason for caution before she caved to pressure.

I don't think Democrats would have elected such a person, PP. But if they had, enough of them would naturally act like one of the previous posters and strive to protect their own majority to the detriment of the Republic, exactly like the Republicans are doing now.

Again, most people only look to their short-term interest, which is really sad. I am thankful that Pelosi understands her place in history and is taking a stand.

Quite honestly, Trump is an aberration - I don't think either the Democrats or Republicans would choose someone like him in the foreseeable future. So when you say the Democrats would not have elected - more to the point, nominated - such a person, I agree with you. If someone like a Trump were nominated I don't doubt for a minute that the Democratic base would have supported him/her based on the lesser of two evils. All you need to do is to see posts on this forum that they will vote for any Democrat who ends up being nominated before voting for Trump. Admittedly some of this is hyperbole.

How someone like Trump ended up being nominated and elected is a whole different subject but I would suggest it is massive failures on the part of both the Democratic and Republican establishments to recognize and respond to the concerns of many voters.

What is interesting is that the Republican reaction to the move to impeach Trump is no different than the Democratic response was when there were moves afoot to impeach Clinton eg why go through this divisive process given that conviction will not take place in the senate. I think it was Schumer who said this during an interview in 1998. Pelosi said then and more recently that she is opposed to impeachment if it ends up being a partisan vote - she said both sides must be supportive of the process otherwise it would be divisive. I just don't go along with the moral superiority of Democrats when it comes to issues such as this - both sides are territorial and partisan.

The main reason why the Democrats are going this route is primarily to try and damage Trump and prevent his reelection.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If we lose the election and analysis shows that part of the reason was the reaction to the impeachment in the swing states, I hope you will recognize that reality and not rant about racism and deplorables.

Yes, I am a Democrat and I think this impeachment exercise is asinine. Trump will be acquitted in the Senate and will claim victory and will say it was a totally partisan move to damage him ........ and that message will likely get through to some independent voters. Of course, you can then rant about uneducated Trump supporters who are traitors, etc.

We should all be prepared to lose an election to stand for our principles. There is absolutely no question at all that impeachment is the right thing to do. It is for the history books. Four more years of Trump and some judge appointments do not have the same weight.

It's amazing how people cannot look past their own little immediate interests. Taking a stand for the integrity of the Republic is far more important than you or me, PP.

Please ...... this has nothing to do with integrity for most who vote for impeachment. Are you seriously suggesting that if the circumstances were reversed and we had a Democratic president who indulged in the same conduct, Democrats in Congress would be ranting for removal ........ or for that matter, the Republicans would not be making the same sort of arguments that the Democrats are today why that Democratic president should be impeached? No, Democrats would be making every excuse for why impeachment is not warranted.

My primary goal is to get a qualified Democrat in the White House. It would be foolhardy to take any action that does not accomplish that goal - and that is the point that Willie Brown is making. And that was Pelosi's reason for caution before she caved to pressure.

If you think Democrats would not be in favor of impeaching a Democrat who did all the crap Trump has done, you don't understand the party.

You are clueless and this combined with the likelihood that we may well nominate someone who is unelectable is why we may lose the next election. But you can then rant for the next four years about how a lot of ignorant yahoos voted for a fraud, a conman, a traitor and on and on.

But you will have bragging rights that we impeached Trump in a partisan vote and who was then overwhelmingly acquitted in the senate.

Democrats would never tolerate a Trump or a Giuliani. We don't want self-dealing leaders. Democrats have dumped party leaders for much less. (Jim Wright for bulk book sales to lobbyists, for example)

+1 I think you see this in things like Franken and Hill. If you want to take the high road, you have to set examples.