Anonymous wrote:The mother was found up the hillside, right? She might have been trying to get out of the gas cloud, realizing that it was close to the ground.

Basically, its the opposite of a house fire, where they tell you to crawl on the floor so you have access to oxygen.

This may also be related to climate change - gasses are escaping from the permafrost due to ground warming. This may be a big issue moving forward - the sudden release of ground gases could rapidly suffocate people.

Methane will escape from melting permafrost, but this isn't the Arctic.

I wonder if a helicopter dropped fire retardant or a crop duster dropped a chemical on them. Either that, or aliens.

I feel like she trusted the husband to carry her cell phone to lighten her load.

Anonymous wrote:They should look into whether there were any tremors or minor fault movements that day that might have triggered a gas release.

Gas doesn't just come out of nowhere, unless there is a volcano nearby.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Let me assure you, there is no permafrost in California.

DP. Google and the National Park Service tell me that there is Permafrost in Yosemite and other parts of the Sierra Nevadas. The Sierra National Forest where they were hiking is close to Yosemite. The PP’s theory is not absurd at all.

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

No, there's no permafrost in that area of California.

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Let me assure you, there is no permafrost in California.

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

No .. there's no permafrost in the area that regularly reaches 110+ multiple days each summer.

Anonymous wrote:Heat stroke is not fast-acting enough to incapacitate two adults and a dog only 1.5 miles from their car.

In addition the father had the mother's phone when he died. Sounds like at least one of the two adults was delirious because if the mother was going back to the car for help - she would have taken the phone, if not the baby.

The mother was also first aid trained and from California. I can't imagine its not a natural gas/CO thing.

In the central valley, I was once outdoors on a day where the high was above 115. After standing in the direct sun for a couple of hours in the mid-day, I began to have heat stroke. My vision tunneled and I lost sensation in my hands and feet while I walked a hundred yards or so to a shaded area with misters. It was like being blackout drunk. I would absolutely not have made it 1.5 miles hiking through the desert but I also absolutely would never have hiked in the middle of the day either (and I was being a stupid teen to have stayed out that long in the direct sun in the middle of the day).

The only thing I can think of is that maybe they intended to have a short hike, but it ended up staying out much further into the heat of the day and then were overcome before they could make it back. People who should know better often do things like that and I could see someone one who's never really experienced the heat of that part of CA (which coastal CA doesn't have) not really understanding how bad it gets. Still, that wouldn't explain there still being water in the camelback and his phone. I think a dog who was unable to get to shade/water might also pass away in that kind of heat however that assumes the dog couldn't get free while it still had energy.

Anonymous wrote:I’m reading in Newsweek that toxic algae blooms is the leading theory right now, not CO or CO2.

It will be important to hear eventually if the dog was covered with algae -- someone above posted a scenario where the dog might have gone into water with toxic algae in it and the adults somehow got poisoned via the wet dog. That actually sounds plausible, if the algae work that fast at second hand. But it's all just speculation for now.

Anonymous wrote:Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Yes, I recall that case--very sudden death. One would think the victims could get away; after all, they're outdoors. But truly there are gases that can work so fast that even outdoors you cannot escape. Like the hog "lagoon" deaths, this one in CA might be a case of being in exactly the wrong place at precisely the wrong time. We can't know yet. All we know is how tragic it is. I feel for their families, friends and colleagues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mother was found up the hillside, right? She might have been trying to get out of the gas cloud, realizing that it was close to the ground.

Basically, its the opposite of a house fire, where they tell you to crawl on the floor so you have access to oxygen.

This may also be related to climate change - gasses are escaping from the permafrost due to ground warming. This may be a big issue moving forward - the sudden release of ground gases could rapidly suffocate people.

As a mom I will be trying to grab my baby in a dangerous situation, not away from it. Even I get killed because of it.

That's easy to say when judging a situation theoretically from the comfort of home, but you don't know if the mom might have been disoriented and making strange split-second choices due to whatever was going on. If they were exposed to toxic gases, for instance, that is likely not conducive to good reasoning, especially if panic set in.

Or: For all we know she might have been thinking she could get back to the car or to an area with cell service much faster if she were moving solo, and she left the baby with dad, who might have been, at that time, conscious and saying he'd sit there with the baby, and mom should go for help as fast as possible.

It's perhaps unintentionally judgy to talk as if the mom were somehow wrong because she did not "grab (the) baby in a dangerous situation." I'm going to hope you didn't mean it that way. But coming off as judgmental is a risk of Monday morning quarterbacking. No one really knows yet why the two adults were in the locations they were at death.

Someone above mentioned climate change. With permafrost melting it releases methane and methane can kill pretty quickly. There was a case a few years ago in Virginia or the Carolinas where father and son(s) were killed working on or near a hog poop pit—it released a methane gas that asphyxiated them all before they could get away. Not sure if there’s permafrost in that part of California, but nature has lots of weird ways to kill you.

Just noting this other story in the area (similar heat), where heat stroke is the leading theory, they still send out for toxicology, and the autoposy report is inconclusive (albeit he was found weeks later, so likely less evidence). https://sfist.com/2021/08/24/gps-data-from-philip-kreyciks-smart-watch-indicates-he-likely-succumbed-quickly-to-heat/ I agree the baby and dog (especially) makes this less likely, but I can see both adults succumbing to heat stroke and acting irrationally and dying within a short distance of each other. The baby and dog are also actually more susceptible to heat stroke, but it seems that at least the dog would have responded with vomit.

Not sure what i think is most likely, but it is a very sad story. Murder / suicide seems to be by far the least likely...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mother was found up the hillside, right? She might have been trying to get out of the gas cloud, realizing that it was close to the ground.

Basically, its the opposite of a house fire, where they tell you to crawl on the floor so you have access to oxygen.

This may also be related to climate change - gasses are escaping from the permafrost due to ground warming. This may be a big issue moving forward - the sudden release of ground gases could rapidly suffocate people.

As a mom I will be trying to grab my baby in a dangerous situation, not away from it. Even I get killed because of it.

Agreed. It’s like it happened so fast that mom didn’t even have time to be worried or afraid.

I’m reading in Newsweek that toxic algae blooms is the leading theory right now, not CO or CO2.

Anonymous wrote:The mother was found up the hillside, right? She might have been trying to get out of the gas cloud, realizing that it was close to the ground.

Basically, its the opposite of a house fire, where they tell you to crawl on the floor so you have access to oxygen.

This may also be related to climate change - gasses are escaping from the permafrost due to ground warming. This may be a big issue moving forward - the sudden release of ground gases could rapidly suffocate people.

Maybe, but the theory is CO is odorless and will make you want to go to sleep, and like PP said, she would have grabbed the baby. She could have been up the hill slightly looking at something else. Baby in carrier next to dad suggests maybe they were taking a food/water or rest break. I know when we hike, I don't just hike for hours and hours without stopping for a rest, particularly if i have a heavy pack on.