Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range, quite a departure from the $115 someone quoted earlier. That was for Software Engineering & Gaming jobs which includes some FAANG and startups, but in reality this is a minority, like top 10% of MIT grads, rest are in the $80k to $100k range, just like other CS grads from state schools, may be they get $10K more, or like another poster said the state school candidate get $10k more if they have additional skill sets & certification.

Oh well, the DCUM bandwagon of misinformation rolls on

You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

But the report you quoted is not about CS but for all majors. So you were either lying or can't read when you wrote "MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range". The consulting employers for EECS didn't have any system integrator. They don't do "IT consulting". MIT EECS graduates go work for consulting companies like McKinsey and BCG. They pay higher than $82k.

List of companies under consulting from Page 23:

Consulting Bachelors: Accenture, Accenture – Alittude, Accenture Strategy, Altman Vilandrie & Company, Analysis Group, Applied Predictive Technology, Bain & Company, BCG, Booz Allen Hamilton, Boston Consulting Group, The Brattle Group, Charles River Associates, Chartwell Consulting, CMA Strategy Consulting, DeepBench, Deloitte Consulting, InterSystems, LEK Consulting, McKinsey & Company, Novantas, Oliver Wyman, PA Defense Inc., QES LLC,

Accenture, Deloitte, BAH, three major system integrators with several billion under contracts, civilian and government, anyone who says these firms cannot provide a career to a fresh college grad, no matter where they are from, is showing a lack of understanding of the industry. BCG and McKinsey provide management and strategy consulting, while MIT engineering grads could find some niche there to support as SMEp, that's not the place an engineer want to be right out of college. Since they lumped consulting into one bucket, there is a high chance there are business majors here going into this line. The salaries for consulting are thus mixed up.

Anyhow, someone here reported BAH is paying $100K for fresh grads, and I do know that's true. So, yes, MIT CS grads could get $110K regardless of consulting or software, but so could CS grads from other schools, especially if they have certifications in areas like Cloud computing. Most fresh out of school CS grads, regardless of where they went cannot show the worth of $200K let alone $400K, but FAANG will hire them anyway for big bucks because they can afford to blow money, and since they like to keep these folks warming the bench, getting them trained in their methods internally. This, really is the reason why elite school names get paid more by FAANG and startups, they do have the money to blow up, and they would rather invest in these kids now in hope they will return well in a couple of years after they retrain them. Once they money run out in Tech, which does happen as it is a cyclical industry, then this will stop, and they will become more careful who they are hiring. Ask me how I know, this is common practice for companies with funding to hire talent to keep bench warm, then get them interested with internal projects.

Bottomline, just because FAANG hired them for higher salary doesn't mean they were far better than other CS grads, but sometimes it is easier to get hired from an elite school because the employer thinks they have the base, however, that will not prevent talented CS grads from other schools to get hired. They just have to work a little extra harder, how can they get noticed, have a Github account where you post your code, so that they can see what you are capable of building, be part of clubs, do networking, learn how to master leetcode test, master several algorithms like different types of sorts, sets, hashing, crypto, etc, have certs. Computing in the end is not all about elite schools, but how passionate you are about tech. Kids with motivation and passion will get where they need to no matter what school they go to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range, quite a departure from the $115 someone quoted earlier. That was for Software Engineering & Gaming jobs which includes some FAANG and startups, but in reality this is a minority, like top 10% of MIT grads, rest are in the $80k to $100k range, just like other CS grads from state schools, may be they get $10K more, or like another poster said the state school candidate get $10k more if they have additional skill sets & certification.

Oh well, the DCUM bandwagon of misinformation rolls on

You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

But the report you quoted is not about CS but for all majors. So you were either lying or can't read when you wrote "MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range". The consulting employers for EECS didn't have any system integrator. They don't do "IT consulting". MIT EECS graduates go work for consulting companies like McKinsey and BCG. They pay higher than $82k.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure BAH will get the talent they need for projects, but that doesn't mean that they'll pay $$$ or have top-tier opportunities for new grads.

They probably get their recruits from uva.

I'm sure BAH will get the talent they need for projects, but that doesn't mean that they'll pay $$$ or have top-tier opportunities for new grads.

Who is this crazy troll? And who cares?

BAH is a respected consulting firm but in all honesty, the top half of the class isn’t going there. It isn’t about $. System integrators aren’t viewed as the ideal place to start.

Kids want to build product. They want to build platforms. They want to be cutting edge. If consulting, then only boutique or MBB. That’s simply it. Booz maybe doing all of that but no kid thinks that.

I was that kid 30 years ago and even then I knew I didn’t want an SI experience.

^They will skip top SLACs and even schools like Dartmouth and Notre Dame because its simply not worth going to the some rural area hours away from an airport to fish for 3-5 potential candidates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this (old) article, may explain what everyone is saying here: you get more at bats with that 1st job, but several years in, it's what you can do not where you are from that matters:

Excerpt:
"This confirms PayScale data, which shows new Stanford computer-science grads get paid 9% more than MIT grads and 28% more than Cornell grads. But Willis says his data also shows that, after two years of work experience, Stanford graduates get no premium over graduates from other schools with equal work experience."

Stanford Graduates Get Fought Over by Tech Companies

From https://www.businessinsider.com/snapchat-entry-level-salaries-2015-4?utm_source=slate&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=partner :

"Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn regularly pay new hires out of Stanford a salary of between $100,000 and $150,000. Those companies will offer stock grants between $100,000 and $200,000. Sometimes there are signing bonuses close to $25,000.

Snapchat isn't offering these kinds of salaries and stock grants to all new hires — just top software engineers from top computer-science programs."

As stated above in the thread, top programs have companies like Google and Facebook fighting over their grads, largely because the best students want to go to their own startup or go to graduate school. Working 40 hours/week for a corporation is not viewed as prestigious, even when that corporation is Google/Facebook. Companies like Google/Facebook throw money at these graduates with huge signing bonuses, stocks, and higher salaries, etc.

Meanwhile, schools like UIUC, Washington, UCLA, etc. have students fighting to get into Google/Facebook etc.

And the rest, Google, Facebook etc. don't even actively recruit from there. It's throwing your resume into the internet.

Don't even start with some of the startups in Silicon Valley, who do not have the resources to go around to campuses across the country. They will recruit at the Bay Area schools, the big well known CS schools and very top universities in the east coast/midwest - that's it.

Anonymous wrote:I think this (old) article, may explain what everyone is saying here: you get more at bats with that 1st job, but several years in, it's what you can do not where you are from that matters:

Excerpt:
"This confirms PayScale data, which shows new Stanford computer-science grads get paid 9% more than MIT grads and 28% more than Cornell grads. But Willis says his data also shows that, after two years of work experience, Stanford graduates get no premium over graduates from other schools with equal work experience."

Stanford Graduates Get Fought Over by Tech Companies

From https://www.businessinsider.com/snapchat-entry-level-salaries-2015-4?utm_source=slate&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=partner :

"Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn regularly pay new hires out of Stanford a salary of between $100,000 and $150,000. Those companies will offer stock grants between $100,000 and $200,000. Sometimes there are signing bonuses close to $25,000.

Snapchat isn't offering these kinds of salaries and stock grants to all new hires — just top software engineers from top computer-science programs."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range, quite a departure from the $115 someone quoted earlier. That was for Software Engineering & Gaming jobs which includes some FAANG and startups, but in reality this is a minority, like top 10% of MIT grads, rest are in the $80k to $100k range, just like other CS grads from state schools, may be they get $10K more, or like another poster said the state school candidate get $10k more if they have additional skill sets & certification.

Oh well, the DCUM bandwagon of misinformation rolls on

You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

Stop acting like an idiot. You're becoming a laughing stock.

The only idiot here is you who is calling a top consulting company that runs multi-million dollar contracts in DMV area "bottom of the pile" and "run of the mill" clearly you got some insecurity issues. Booz Allen Hamilton is not a bottom of the pile anywhere and they aren't a run of the mill. Only a ignorant person will do that.

Not PP but they seem to have struck a nerve. No one is saying that BAH is a bad career but there are often more enticing opportunities/jobs that align better with skills and interests for many MIT grads. Why are you so insistent on defending them?

I am defending the idea not a particular company, that integrators like BAH in the consulting world are clearly not bottom of the pile for MIT grads. I am speaking from experience of having reviewed resumes of MIT grads along with other schools for a company very similar to BAH. I don't get the infatuation with FAANG and companies like that, they are great places to work, and cool to tell your neighbors, but integrators like BAH does the work that FAANG cannot or will not do. For instance, I know an integrator that wrote and implemented custom machine learning software solution that saves several billions of dollars a year for the customer, this team included CS background people and Math PhD folks, you need every skill set in different type of jobs. Sometimes you need a MIT Math person or a CMU CS person on that team, then they go get them. It is completely wrong to say BAH and companies like that will only get bottom 50%, they will pay what they need to pay to get the niche skills, on some projects, but of course on average the job doesn't require that. Similarly, not all jobs at FAANG requires the highest skill sets, there are GMU grads who found jobs at Google. There are different tiers of jobs everywhere. Sometimes the problems you face at writing software at a government agency is really complex, and FAANG won't come and do it, they provide platform software, then someone else need to build custom solutions on top, and the issues aren't any simpler. Bottomline, you cannot paint with a broad brush that everything at FAANG require MIT/CMU grads and other places do not. The person who made that comment was making general statements without recognizing the nuances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range, quite a departure from the $115 someone quoted earlier. That was for Software Engineering & Gaming jobs which includes some FAANG and startups, but in reality this is a minority, like top 10% of MIT grads, rest are in the $80k to $100k range, just like other CS grads from state schools, may be they get $10K more, or like another poster said the state school candidate get $10k more if they have additional skill sets & certification.

Oh well, the DCUM bandwagon of misinformation rolls on

You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

Stop acting like an idiot. You're becoming a laughing stock.

The only idiot here is you who is calling a top consulting company that runs multi-million dollar contracts in DMV area "bottom of the pile" and "run of the mill" clearly you got some insecurity issues. Booz Allen Hamilton is not a bottom of the pile anywhere and they aren't a run of the mill. Only a ignorant person will do that.

Not PP but they seem to have struck a nerve. No one is saying that BAH is a bad career but there are often more enticing opportunities/jobs that align better with skills and interests for many MIT grads. Why are you so insistent on defending them?

P.S. I certainly wouldn't call BAH "bottom of the pile" for the record.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range, quite a departure from the $115 someone quoted earlier. That was for Software Engineering & Gaming jobs which includes some FAANG and startups, but in reality this is a minority, like top 10% of MIT grads, rest are in the $80k to $100k range, just like other CS grads from state schools, may be they get $10K more, or like another poster said the state school candidate get $10k more if they have additional skill sets & certification.

Oh well, the DCUM bandwagon of misinformation rolls on

You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

Stop acting like an idiot. You're becoming a laughing stock.

The only idiot here is you who is calling a top consulting company that runs multi-million dollar contracts in DMV area "bottom of the pile" and "run of the mill" clearly you got some insecurity issues. Booz Allen Hamilton is not a bottom of the pile anywhere and they aren't a run of the mill. Only a ignorant person will do that.

Not PP but they seem to have struck a nerve. No one is saying that BAH is a bad career but there are often more enticing opportunities/jobs that align better with skills and interests for many MIT grads. Why are you so insistent on defending them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work for BAH and we just hired five fresh of the boat graduates from CMU, UVA, VT, JMU and Penn State. They get the same salary, 100K, except the graduate from JMU got 10K more because he has experience with Amazon Cloud computing and the others do not.

I don’t know of anyone getting 200k or 400k right out of college.

For the student cohort at CMU, BAH is bottom of the pile. At UVA it's somewhere in the middle and the other 3 schools, they would be thrilled to get into BAH. The top 50% of the kids at CMU and top 20% of the kids out of UVA, get the bigger offers, though 400k is probably an "imaginary number".

Oh the hubris. BAH run multi-million dollar contracts all across the DMV area, they partner with all of the mega tech companies as implementation partners, and can give a fresh graduate opportunities to rise to a level they can like almost anywhere else. Wonder how may of you folks have any clue of Tech and what working at FAANG really means, just checkout some of the YouTube videos of the folks who got burned out slaving at FB and Google. Life isn't a bed of roses for a Tech at FAANG, it's not anywhere, it's what you make of it. Someone got hired for $100K at a top integrator right out of college, and the response to that is "oh well they are bottom pile", do you have kids? what do they do I wonder.

No Hubris at all.. Just facts. The median CS grad salaries (base) for CMU and UVA (2019 data) are 108,500 and 99,000 (from their websites; You can research the other schools), consistent with the percentages I posted above. I know BAH, very familiar with them and have a lot of friends that work there. It's a great company, but it's no FAANG, nor does it pay FAANG salaries. Facts are facts.

The rest of your rant about working conditions at FAANG, burnout, be thankful for $100 starting salary, yada yada yada are not relevant and do not negate the facts you don't want to acknowledge.

LOL .. FAANG, how many UVA and CMU grads work at those, some, the rest work elsewhere, and happy if they can retain the job at BAH. I've worked with UVA CS grads, some are fine, some just not so. Going to a particular school or having some level of intellect to graduate doesn't always convert to Tech skills in the real world.

I think you are missing the point. FAANG is just a representative term for companies that pay FAANG-like salaries (and there are many of them). There are many. I made a simple point using "MEDIAN" data. You claimed that was Hubris. I proved it was not, and you take off on unrelated tangents. Let me dumb it down for ya. If the MEDIAN salary at CMU is 108,500, more than 50% of the class makes MORE THAN 108,500. If your company offers 100K salary, it is BELOW THE MEDIAN and will typically only get the bottom half of the class to apply. Please let me know if you disagree with that. If you don't, I'm done. If you do disagree, you need to take high school 101.

The rest of your points - FAANG burnout, BAH is a great company, going to a particular school doesn't convert to tech skills (although most hiring managers would disagree) etc. - are irrelevant to this discussion (all those are possible in a few cases and BAH IS a great company).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For MIT grads, their stats in Computer Software are low $60,000 to high $160,000 with the bonus mean of $30,345. Their tops didn't hit $400,000 - at least not in 2018. Of course, this doesn't prevent $400,000, or a pie in the sky, in any other year.

https://capd.mit.edu/sites/default/files/about/files/OutcomeSurvey2018Final.pdf

MIT CS salaries for Consulting jobs are in the $80K range, quite a departure from the $115 someone quoted earlier. That was for Software Engineering & Gaming jobs which includes some FAANG and startups, but in reality this is a minority, like top 10% of MIT grads, rest are in the $80k to $100k range, just like other CS grads from state schools, may be they get $10K more, or like another poster said the state school candidate get $10k more if they have additional skill sets & certification.

Oh well, the DCUM bandwagon of misinformation rolls on

You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

Stop acting like an idiot. You're becoming a laughing stock.

The only idiot here is you who is calling a top consulting company that runs multi-million dollar contracts in DMV area "bottom of the pile" and "run of the mill" clearly you got some insecurity issues. Booz Allen Hamilton is not a bottom of the pile anywhere and they aren't a run of the mill. Only a ignorant person will do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are spreading misinformation yourself. The survey is for all MIT graduates, not just EECS. We don't know how many EECS went into consulting. I see BCG and McKinsey are listed for EECS. But your run-of-the-mill system integrator consulting, like BAH is not listed.

This thread is about CS, and the salary split is clearly for specific majors, within that sub-classifications. Get a grip, and learn to read. MIT grads who go into IT consulting make $82k on average. Oh wow BCH and McKinsey are what? BAH is run of the mill. Clearly, you got no clue on Tech or Consulting, you must be a DC lawyer or lobbyist. The most clueless lot.

Funny, if CS is all about technical knowledge that any state university can provide, why aren't community college IT graduates rising to the top? How about the code monkeys who graduated from coding bootcamps? When can we expect them to become CEOs of FAANG?

Why are you talking about community college and coding bootcamp graduates on a thread about the Top 100 CS colleges? Hey, we all get caught up sometimes. Give yourself a chance to cool off.