We need a much longer shut down than that. We have proven people are selfish and cannot self regulate.

YES YES YES

Never again. Not shutting down

I am happy to do this but will it help long-term, or are we talking about sort of staving it off until a vaccine can be developed?

Anonymous wrote:All non-essential places need to be shut. No indoor dining. No hair salons, etc. Let grocery stores remain open. Encourage telework for everyone. Cases will go down. No interstate travel unless absolutely necessary. I am willing to do this. Right now I am confused about what I should and should not do, and we need clear guidelines and leadership from the top.

Agree to all but the inter-state travel thing is so obvious to me and seems like one of the most important things right now. I am so frustrated and angry with people who went on vacations (to places like Florida!) this summer. I am a little more understanding of those who just drove to visit extended family in other states (though we have not done this even though it has been hard, specifically because we are worried it is irresponsible toward both our community and the community we would be visiting). I do not understand why we haven't seen more aggressive travel advisories and quarantines. It's obvious from what we know that interstate travel has been a huge driver of all of the major outbreaks in the US. And yet people are still doing tons of non-essential travel. It's insane.

All non-essential places need to be shut. No indoor dining. No hair salons, etc. Let grocery stores remain open. Encourage telework for everyone. Cases will go down. No interstate travel unless absolutely necessary. I am willing to do this. Right now I am confused about what I should and should not do, and we need clear guidelines and leadership from the top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be back in Europe too in a few months. They are looking like we were late spring, joyfully "outside" and distanced. Wearing a mask when it seemed cool. Covid simmers then explodes! Their bomb has started ticking again too.

It's started in Belgium. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/belgium-strengthens-covid-19-measures-as-cases-rise/1920232

Why is everyone surprised at this? Remember that the lock down was to "flatten the curve?" It was always predicted that the virus would rebound the moment we reopened.

A 2-4 week lockdown only delays the spread, doesn't stop it. As long as people live in households of more than one person, 2-4 weeks of lockdown wouldn't even slow it down very much.

Stop comparing European nations with the US. There's no comparison.

From the link you posted:

Between early June and mid-July, Belgium reported the daily number of new COVID-19 infections at an average of 100. From July 13, the number of cases increased. On July 20, a record number of 370 new cases were registered.

Population of Belgium is 11.5 million

370 new cases per day per 11.5 million = 32 new cases per day per million

Belgium is declaring 32 new cases per day per million a "MAJOR OUTBREAK". They want to to get back to 8 new cases per million people.

There are only a few states with spread as low as 32 new cases per day per milloin in the US and none only have 8 new cases per million per day.

It IS working in Belgium. Whatever measures they took got spread down to 8, and now as they see a rise, they are clamping down again.

When WE in the US get spread down to 8 new cases per million per day, as well, we can also continue to have a life and just clamp down occasionally as needed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We would -absolutely- support a hard shutdown. I would need 1 day to get some supplies because we have a huge group at our house but we would be good to go for 14 days, even 21 days, if it would make a difference. I also think we should close the borders for that time period. And that the hard shutdown would need to be enforced with significant fines for violation.

You and everyone else would be shopping on that 1 day- what could possibly go wrong??

Right??? Same as the plan for grocery stores to only open for 4 hours a day and everyone just lines up together and waits to cram in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be back in Europe too in a few months. They are looking like we were late spring, joyfully "outside" and distanced. Wearing a mask when it seemed cool. Covid simmers then explodes! Their bomb has started ticking again too.

It's started in Belgium. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/belgium-strengthens-covid-19-measures-as-cases-rise/1920232

Why is everyone surprised at this? Remember that the lock down was to "flatten the curve?" It was always predicted that the virus would rebound the moment we reopened.

A 2-4 week lockdown only delays the spread, doesn't stop it. As long as people live in households of more than one person, 2-4 weeks of lockdown wouldn't even slow it down very much.

Yes someone who gets it. You can't just shutdown and except it to fully go away. Look at the stinking curve from flattening the curve, it doesnt go to zero it just stretches the time.

People get this. We all know that even if we did this, we may have to do it again in a few months, just as Europe is gearing up to do partial shutdowns this fall. The difference is that their hard shut downs in the spring actually flattened the curve. Whereas in the US, only some places shut down, we did so too late, and some place didn't shut down at all. That's why we're in the mess we're in.

A nationwide, coordinated shutdown now would allow us to reset and then do a strategic reopening. It would relieve pressure on the hardest hit areas and most of all it would allow hospitals and first responders to prepare for the next wave.

But whatever, none of this will ever happen because it would require nationwide buy-in, national leadership, and cooperation. We're going to be living in limbo for the duration. It sucks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be back in Europe too in a few months. They are looking like we were late spring, joyfully "outside" and distanced. Wearing a mask when it seemed cool. Covid simmers then explodes! Their bomb has started ticking again too.

It's started in Belgium. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/belgium-strengthens-covid-19-measures-as-cases-rise/1920232

Why is everyone surprised at this? Remember that the lock down was to "flatten the curve?" It was always predicted that the virus would rebound the moment we reopened.

A 2-4 week lockdown only delays the spread, doesn't stop it. As long as people live in households of more than one person, 2-4 weeks of lockdown wouldn't even slow it down very much.

Yes someone who gets it. You can't just shutdown and except it to fully go away. Look at the stinking curve from flattening the curve, it doesnt go to zero it just stretches the time.

Anonymous wrote:It will be back in Europe too in a few months. They are looking like we were late spring, joyfully "outside" and distanced. Wearing a mask when it seemed cool. Covid simmers then explodes! Their bomb has started ticking again too.

It's started in Belgium. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/latest-on-coronavirus-outbreak/belgium-strengthens-covid-19-measures-as-cases-rise/1920232

Why is everyone surprised at this? Remember that the lock down was to "flatten the curve?" It was always predicted that the virus would rebound the moment we reopened.

A 2-4 week lockdown only delays the spread, doesn't stop it. As long as people live in households of more than one person, 2-4 weeks of lockdown wouldn't even slow it down very much.

Anonymous wrote:We would -absolutely- support a hard shutdown. I would need 1 day to get some supplies because we have a huge group at our house but we would be good to go for 14 days, even 21 days, if it would make a difference. I also think we should close the borders for that time period. And that the hard shutdown would need to be enforced with significant fines for violation.

You and everyone else would be shopping on that 1 day- what could possibly go wrong??

100% YES!!! Anything to get my poor kids back to school

We would -absolutely- support a hard shutdown. I would need 1 day to get some supplies because we have a huge group at our house but we would be good to go for 14 days, even 21 days, if it would make a difference. I also think we should close the borders for that time period. And that the hard shutdown would need to be enforced with significant fines for violation.

No, even in places like France, you were still allowed to do grocery runs and take walks. Yes, there were papers you had to show, but not a Wuhan-style lockdown. Also, you would have to restrct travel out of each county, and it's never two weeks. It would be three months. Nope.

Even France and Italy have said they won't do as extreme a lockdown next time, and theirs was not Wuhan-style.