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Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you sah, do you feel your children have a superior childhood?

actually yes. But I know the reality is that they have a superior childhood because my husband makes a lot of money. So that means private school, college is taken care of, we take them on fabulous vacations all over the world, they get private tennis, ski, swim, and music lessons, cool summer camps, all the tech they want, etc. And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

I mean, yeah it's better. It's definitely better than what they had when I was working, which was a harried mom juggling too many balls.

I hope you're not raising boys, because they'll be a real treat to be married to. Or girls, for that matter, since then they'll think that's what they have to do.

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Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

Opposite of what I’ve experienced. I find it hard to be friends with SAHMs because everything revolves around their children. They seem way less likely to want to do anything without children involved. They go on fewer date nights, don’t travel with friends, etc. I assume some of this is because they are living off one paycheck.

FWIW almost everything you listed above is in the PAST. The SAHM has a previous career, travelED places etc. That’s the problem. If you work and are friends with SAHMs, it’s easy to see how you’re moving forward in life and they aren’t. The SAHM gives up major parts of her life to stay at home with children. There are extremely wealthy women who still manage to maintain an identity, but these are not the norm.

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Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you are a working mom, do you feel superior to SAHM moms? It's just something I have always wondered.

Since this is anonymous, yes I do. I would never tell you to your face though.

NP, and no, I don't. In this specific, current situation, I think I have it much harder than they do, but that doesn't make me superior to them. Grumpier, perhaps. On balance, I think there are enough trade-offs either way to make them relatively equally difficult. I guess if you're independently wealth SAH is an easier option, but that's not many people.

Do you think it might be much harder because you aren't as used to be around you kids for that many hours a day? Aside from the actual working part? It can be a little shocking if you aren't used to being around children for 12+ hours a day weeks on end.

NP. This is incredibly condescending. I work full-time, as does my husband, but it’s not the being around my kids all day that’s hard, it’s having them around plus having to work at the same time. I mean, we both take liberal leave during the year and spend time together as a family all day. And also weekends. And many school holidays we’ll take off. Also, we’re fortunate enough that our kids are in school or at an activity right after school pretty much the whole time we’re working, so it’s not like we don’t see our kids during the week. Your attitude is a reason why people hate SAHMs.

It’s not meant to be condescending. I have noticed too many WOH saying “This is so much harder for me! If I didn’t work this would be so easy. You don’t understand the demands of a career” I’m talking about moms with young children. (5 and under with hardly any independent that cannot be left unsupervised). It’s hard for everyone right now. It is also exhausting being around small children for that long for weeks on end whether you choose it or not and for many it might be the first time outside of maternity leave they have experienced this long of a stretch. I know exactly how stressful a career can be too, I did that for 13 years after grad school and worked since I was 15 and I will in a few years at all when my son is in kindergarten. It doesn’t have to be a competition over who has it harder and who is superior. If you’re a decent mom you made a conscious decision over what made the most sense for your specific family.

I'm the PP you were responding to earlier, not this one.

Here's the thing: if you have not balanced a career with kids, i.e., worked while you had kids, you have no idea what the specific challenges are. Working before you have kids is not even remotely the same as working once you have them. I'm not even talking about right now in COVID-19 time, I'm talking generally.

As for COVID-19 time, your argument that it's not harder for mothers who have to work *on top of* all the the other things SAHM are doing is ludicrous. That you can't appreciate that you do, in fact, have it easier right now, is what pisses me and many other working moms off. We're not talking about the demands of a career, we're talking about the demands of working full-time WHILE we ALSO have to parent kids at home. If you can't get that, that's on you, not us.

(I don't have anything against SAHM, either. Many of my neighbors do, and I know it's not easy for them right now. But to a one, they have acknowledged that they are grateful they are home and not also having to work right now. That earns my everlasting gratitude because they Get It.)

But you’re not doing all the thing SAHM’s are doing if you have childcare during the day when your kids are in daycare. It would be nice to have some acknowledgement, like “This is harder than I thought. It is a privilege being able to sit in quiet and have a cup of coffee in the office while the kids are being supervised at daycare.” You also don’t realize many SAHM’s have board positions on non profits and volunteer commitments that they give significant time to, comparable to a part time job and often juggle that with kids at home. So when some engineer comes in here and calls my contribution to society worthless when I raised more than her salary in fundraising last year, I can only shake my head at people who cannot see that there lies a lot of grey in between the black and white. I have no doubt it’s harder for you right now. But it’s also probably more challenging than you thought to be around your kids this much with zero breaks.

Which one is it, PP? Is it that SAHMs are around their kids with zero breaks or that they're board members who volunteer all the time? You can't have it both ways. And I'm not the PP you're responding to, but I'll repeat this for you since you seem to have a hard time understanding. What is not hard is being around our kids with zero breaks. What is hard is working full-time while doing that. You just sound ridiculous.

Both, they juggle volunteer commitments with their kids at home most of the week.

Anonymous wrote:What I notice in these arguments is for all the SAHMs to say something like: "I tried working after kids but it wasn't for me and this set up works better for our family. I'm happy with it and I don't care what other people do."

And then there are a few working moms who can NOT let this go and have to INSIST that these women only see their husbands as paychecks, that the husbands themselves are totally miserable (have you not met any ambitious alpha types btw? They're all over the place and they'd be miserable if they weren't working and competing in some way), that they have no lives, never travel, never do fun stuff, never go out for girls' nights or girls' weekends, have nothing to talk about, kids are being stunted, etc. etc.

And then a bunch of SAHMs and even some working moms will come in saying, "uh, that's not really what I see" but they just won't let it drop.

That's the kind of behavior that makes me think these working moms (like the engineer who keeps engaging) is really jealous. Not of being a SAHM. That's important to note. But of the money their husbands usually make.

In the DC area, SAHMs tend to be really rich. Like, with HHIs way over 750k and net worth of several million. Multiple kids are in private school, lots of household help, they have second homes, they take amazing vacations, the whole nine yards. That's my reality. That's what I see in my neighborhood and community. The women themselves are usually Ivy educated or similar and had impressive careers before having kids, which they could have continued with had they wanted to. So to say these women have no choice in the matter is ridiculous. They have all the flexibility they desire. This lifestyle of luxury and ease is what they actively selected our of an array of choices.

I am not a SAHM by the way, nor are we rich like that. But my sister is and a lot of her/our mutual friends. This is what I see. To feel sorry for these women is laughable. It really is. It's literally feeling sorry for the 1%. Joke's on you.

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Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you sah, do you feel your children have a superior childhood?

actually yes. But I know the reality is that they have a superior childhood because my husband makes a lot of money. So that means private school, college is taken care of, we take them on fabulous vacations all over the world, they get private tennis, ski, swim, and music lessons, cool summer camps, all the tech they want, etc. And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

I mean, yeah it's better. It's definitely better than what they had when I was working, which was a harried mom juggling too many balls.

I hope you're not raising boys, because they'll be a real treat to be married to. Or girls, for that matter, since then they'll think that's what they have to do.

There's a wonderful Irish expression describing moms who spoil their boys -- it's said that they're "cuttin' a switch for another woman's back." Ah, Irish people.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you sah, do you feel your children have a superior childhood?

actually yes. But I know the reality is that they have a superior childhood because my husband makes a lot of money. So that means private school, college is taken care of, we take them on fabulous vacations all over the world, they get private tennis, ski, swim, and music lessons, cool summer camps, all the tech they want, etc. And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

I mean, yeah it's better. It's definitely better than what they had when I was working, which was a harried mom juggling too many balls.

I hope you're not raising boys, because they'll be a real treat to be married to. Or girls, for that matter, since then they'll think that's what they have to do.

There's a wonderful Irish expression describing moms who spoil their boys -- it's said that they're "cuttin' a switch for another woman's back." Ah, Irish people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you sah, do you feel your children have a superior childhood?

actually yes. But I know the reality is that they have a superior childhood because my husband makes a lot of money. So that means private school, college is taken care of, we take them on fabulous vacations all over the world, they get private tennis, ski, swim, and music lessons, cool summer camps, all the tech they want, etc. And they have a mom at home who greets them at the door, runs them around to activities, hosts the play dates, volunteers in their schools, makes a home cooked meal every night, makes sure the house is nice and tidy, keeps on top of their homework schedules, etc.

I mean, yeah it's better. It's definitely better than what they had when I was working, which was a harried mom juggling too many balls.

I hope you're not raising boys, because they'll be a real treat to be married to. Or girls, for that matter, since then they'll think that's what they have to do.

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Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you are a working mom, do you feel superior to SAHM moms? It's just something I have always wondered.

Since this is anonymous, yes I do. I would never tell you to your face though.

NP, and no, I don't. In this specific, current situation, I think I have it much harder than they do, but that doesn't make me superior to them. Grumpier, perhaps. On balance, I think there are enough trade-offs either way to make them relatively equally difficult. I guess if you're independently wealth SAH is an easier option, but that's not many people.

Do you think it might be much harder because you aren't as used to be around you kids for that many hours a day? Aside from the actual working part? It can be a little shocking if you aren't used to being around children for 12+ hours a day weeks on end.

NP. This is incredibly condescending. I work full-time, as does my husband, but it’s not the being around my kids all day that’s hard, it’s having them around plus having to work at the same time. I mean, we both take liberal leave during the year and spend time together as a family all day. And also weekends. And many school holidays we’ll take off. Also, we’re fortunate enough that our kids are in school or at an activity right after school pretty much the whole time we’re working, so it’s not like we don’t see our kids during the week. Your attitude is a reason why people hate SAHMs.

It’s not meant to be condescending. I have noticed too many WOH saying “This is so much harder for me! If I didn’t work this would be so easy. You don’t understand the demands of a career” I’m talking about moms with young children. (5 and under with hardly any independent that cannot be left unsupervised). It’s hard for everyone right now. It is also exhausting being around small children for that long for weeks on end whether you choose it or not and for many it might be the first time outside of maternity leave they have experienced this long of a stretch. I know exactly how stressful a career can be too, I did that for 13 years after grad school and worked since I was 15 and I will in a few years at all when my son is in kindergarten. It doesn’t have to be a competition over who has it harder and who is superior. If you’re a decent mom you made a conscious decision over what made the most sense for your specific family.

I'm the PP you were responding to earlier, not this one.

Here's the thing: if you have not balanced a career with kids, i.e., worked while you had kids, you have no idea what the specific challenges are. Working before you have kids is not even remotely the same as working once you have them. I'm not even talking about right now in COVID-19 time, I'm talking generally.

As for COVID-19 time, your argument that it's not harder for mothers who have to work *on top of* all the the other things SAHM are doing is ludicrous. That you can't appreciate that you do, in fact, have it easier right now, is what pisses me and many other working moms off. We're not talking about the demands of a career, we're talking about the demands of working full-time WHILE we ALSO have to parent kids at home. If you can't get that, that's on you, not us.

(I don't have anything against SAHM, either. Many of my neighbors do, and I know it's not easy for them right now. But to a one, they have acknowledged that they are grateful they are home and not also having to work right now. That earns my everlasting gratitude because they Get It.)

But you’re not doing all the thing SAHM’s are doing if you have childcare during the day when your kids are in daycare. It would be nice to have some acknowledgement, like “This is harder than I thought. It is a privilege being able to sit in quiet and have a cup of coffee in the office while the kids are being supervised at daycare.” You also don’t realize many SAHM’s have board positions on non profits and volunteer commitments that they give significant time to, comparable to a part time job and often juggle that with kids at home. So when some engineer comes in here and calls my contribution to society worthless when I raised more than her salary in fundraising last year, I can only shake my head at people who cannot see that there lies a lot of grey in between the black and white. I have no doubt it’s harder for you right now. But it’s also probably more challenging than you thought to be around your kids this much with zero breaks.

Which one is it, PP? Is it that SAHMs are around their kids with zero breaks or that they're board members who volunteer all the time? You can't have it both ways. And I'm not the PP you're responding to, but I'll repeat this for you since you seem to have a hard time understanding. What is not hard is being around our kids with zero breaks. What is hard is working full-time while doing that. You just sound ridiculous.

Both, they juggle volunteer commitments with their kids at home most of the week.

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Anonymous wrote:Honest Q, if you are a working mom, do you feel superior to SAHM moms? It's just something I have always wondered.

Since this is anonymous, yes I do. I would never tell you to your face though.

NP, and no, I don't. In this specific, current situation, I think I have it much harder than they do, but that doesn't make me superior to them. Grumpier, perhaps. On balance, I think there are enough trade-offs either way to make them relatively equally difficult. I guess if you're independently wealth SAH is an easier option, but that's not many people.

Do you think it might be much harder because you aren't as used to be around you kids for that many hours a day? Aside from the actual working part? It can be a little shocking if you aren't used to being around children for 12+ hours a day weeks on end.

NP. This is incredibly condescending. I work full-time, as does my husband, but it’s not the being around my kids all day that’s hard, it’s having them around plus having to work at the same time. I mean, we both take liberal leave during the year and spend time together as a family all day. And also weekends. And many school holidays we’ll take off. Also, we’re fortunate enough that our kids are in school or at an activity right after school pretty much the whole time we’re working, so it’s not like we don’t see our kids during the week. Your attitude is a reason why people hate SAHMs.

It’s not meant to be condescending. I have noticed too many WOH saying “This is so much harder for me! If I didn’t work this would be so easy. You don’t understand the demands of a career” I’m talking about moms with young children. (5 and under with hardly any independent that cannot be left unsupervised). It’s hard for everyone right now. It is also exhausting being around small children for that long for weeks on end whether you choose it or not and for many it might be the first time outside of maternity leave they have experienced this long of a stretch. I know exactly how stressful a career can be too, I did that for 13 years after grad school and worked since I was 15 and I will in a few years at all when my son is in kindergarten. It doesn’t have to be a competition over who has it harder and who is superior. If you’re a decent mom you made a conscious decision over what made the most sense for your specific family.

I'm the PP you were responding to earlier, not this one.

Here's the thing: if you have not balanced a career with kids, i.e., worked while you had kids, you have no idea what the specific challenges are. Working before you have kids is not even remotely the same as working once you have them. I'm not even talking about right now in COVID-19 time, I'm talking generally.

As for COVID-19 time, your argument that it's not harder for mothers who have to work *on top of* all the the other things SAHM are doing is ludicrous. That you can't appreciate that you do, in fact, have it easier right now, is what pisses me and many other working moms off. We're not talking about the demands of a career, we're talking about the demands of working full-time WHILE we ALSO have to parent kids at home. If you can't get that, that's on you, not us.

(I don't have anything against SAHM, either. Many of my neighbors do, and I know it's not easy for them right now. But to a one, they have acknowledged that they are grateful they are home and not also having to work right now. That earns my everlasting gratitude because they Get It.)

But you’re not doing all the thing SAHM’s are doing if you have childcare during the day when your kids are in daycare. It would be nice to have some acknowledgement, like “This is harder than I thought. It is a privilege being able to sit in quiet and have a cup of coffee in the office while the kids are being supervised at daycare.” You also don’t realize many SAHM’s have board positions on non profits and volunteer commitments that they give significant time to, comparable to a part time job and often juggle that with kids at home. So when some engineer comes in here and calls my contribution to society worthless when I raised more than her salary in fundraising last year, I can only shake my head at people who cannot see that there lies a lot of grey in between the black and white. I have no doubt it’s harder for you right now. But it’s also probably more challenging than you thought to be around your kids this much with zero breaks.

Which one is it, PP? Is it that SAHMs are around their kids with zero breaks or that they're board members who volunteer all the time? You can't have it both ways. And I'm not the PP you're responding to, but I'll repeat this for you since you seem to have a hard time understanding. What is not hard is being around our kids with zero breaks. What is hard is working full-time while doing that. You just sound ridiculous.

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Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

Too bad she didn't put that education to use!

Most women stay at home for 5 years on average. You really think most wasted it because they took 5/50 of their working years off?

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Anonymous wrote:OMG I'm DYING at someone thinking they are superior to me because they make 210k.

Oh honey. Talk about having a small life! You don't even know that is not a lot of money.

I feel sad for her.

Ok I wouldn't have said it like this because it's mean but yes. I cringed at that too.

Hi, I’m the pp you’re referring to!

I never said it was the money that makes me superior. I just can’t imagine feeling fulfilled in life doing...well nothing. I’m sure you get to travel and shop but you are kind of worthless (in my view).

Again I would never say this to your face.

I’m cringing for you.

+ 1

I guess we see how she rates her children though! It's "worthless" to spend time with them!

I agree, but I also have pity for her. I find a lot of ppl in this area (men and women) who define themselves by their jobs. It is the one thing I hate about this area. I grew up on the W Coast where people actually have conversations rather than asking what you do/who you know and losing all interest if you can’t help them somehow. It’s great to have a job that you love, but it’s just as bad to pin all your self worth on your career as it is on your kids. There has to be a balance and you have to be someone outside of work, ideally with a loving family and community involvement. And judging by the vitriol she’s spouting, I’m going to guess she doesn’t have that balance. Sad! I hope for her kids’ sake that they have other positive influences in their lives...

I don't know a single working mom who defines themselves by their job. Not one. And some of them have pretty major jobs. Talking about what you do doesn't mean you're defining someone's worth by their answer. It's an interesting way to learn about someone and about the things that they do that you might know nothing about. So you can be "sad" all you want for PP, but your negative attitude is equally as disgusting.

I don’t know a single SAHM that defines herself completely by her children. So the idea that she is a waste to society is a joke. If you think she has nothing to talk to her about ask her. Trust me, she likely has plenty of other interests, life stories, a former career, an education, places she has lived and traveled to, causes she is involved with...

You make no sense. Who said SAHMs define themselves completely by their children?