Anonymous wrote:OP,
My husband and I have this very same conversation once a year or so , though I earn quite a bit more working part time, with 2 school aged children, and always agree that it makes sense for me to just work part time.
I would say we are comfortable, but still have to budget, make sure we stay within our means, cut corners.
These are our reasons, yours may be different:

1. Our children are in a wide variety of after school activities and we do not want them in aftercare at the same school they were at all day, or home with a sitter (that is hard to fine Btw!)
Because school ends at 315, I do the transporting to/from all these activities we agree we want them to do.

2. I do all the household things so he can come home at 630-7 pm and just spend time with the kids. He does nothing during the week and that’s his precious time with them. I agree and want him to have this time.

3. We don’t have any outside help so I am contributing that way, see above. I do all the outside work as well. I know people say “oh it’s just a point and click” but I don’t find that I can point and click my lawn mowed, new weed barrier laid down, weeds killed, 26 bags of mulch laid like I did my last day off during the week. And they will say “but that was just once and doesn’t need to be done every day” and I will say “well today I’m surrounded by bills, our stock portfolio, taxes, a report from our financial planner and I can’t point and click that either”
So take that for what it’s worth, my husband does none of this.

4. We value our family time. Weekends are for our adventure and time together. We are not doing errands. Everything is done and we’re ready to enjoy our children. They are only with us for another 6-10 years and then off to college and their own life and we want to soak up every second with them.

I hope this offers a little perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we had kids, DW became a SAHM and our discussion was always that she’d return to the workforce at some point. It’s now 15 years later, kids are in high school, and she is working part-time. I just did our taxes and she only earned $18k last year - I am a GS-15 so by no means a rainmaker. We are behind on savings, college 529, etc and I’m tired of having to agonize over every financial decision because our finances are so precarious. DW has a Masters and could be making $60-70K full time but doesn’t want to - she has many stay at home friends who are married to rainmakers, but that’s not me. I told her tonight that I’m at my wits end and she needs to step up. She doesn’t want to work full time - neither do I but I suck it up for the family. I’m very frustrated and can’t get DW to pick up the slack. I am very involved at home and with the kids so she has supper there. How can I make her understand that we can’t always get what we want?!?

Woman here - I am totally on your side on this.

I just heard a WAMU segment this morning that was really similar - husband was an attorney at EPA. Wife has an MBA and has been out of the workforce for close to 10 years. Four kids, two or three are school age (one was 5). He was working at Home Depot on the weekends and they each had about $100k in student loan debt. He basically saw no path to financial freedom. I was scratching my head at that one. Your wife needs a job, dude!

I don't know how you can "make" her get a job, but I'm totally in your corner. Just not acceptable that one partner leaves the other holding the ball.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is that it gives clear insight into why so many kids arrive at college totally incompetent and unable to manage basic life functioning. It's eye-opening.

Yup. Do you really need an adult to sit with a high school student when they are home sick or make them a sandwich? Or be home at 3 to make sure they start their homework?

Our neighbor’s kid in high school routinely gets home at 12:30, and, shortly thereafter, a load of other teens arrive with duffel bags. They’re doing who know what for several hours. Parents don’t get home from work until 6:30 or so, well after they are gone.

Uh, okay. This is not a usual situation. High school kids do not get out of school at 12:30. You are fear-mongering.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if the kids are sick, can you take off and stay home with them. Can you do all (and schedule) after school activities, doctors appointments, last minute things as if she starts working she will have no leave and depending on the job, no flexibility. Are you willing to grocery shop, cook, make lunches, help with homework, drive for activities every day? Again, she'll have no flexibility for a while?

Guess what-- those of us who are working parents do ALL of those things. It is very doable.

+1
Typical SAHM excuses.

I’m not a SAHM but the above is real life and it sucks.
When our child was sick for 2 weeks, then another child sick for a week it destroyed us.
We had to cancel a vacation because we blew through our PTO.
To say nothing of trying to eek out work from home and tens to a sick child. It was hard.

We spend our weekends running errands at least one day and it sucks.
After work is a flurry of grabbing kids from school/activities and doing homework, house stuff, etc.
It’s not easy or fun. We do it, but to demean people who choose to avoid this and pretend this isn’t real life is not helpful.

If you have no outside help, no family help, it’s an entirely different level. Please don’t brush that away.

Um, OP has high schoolers. You stayed home for two weeks with a sick high schooler?

High schoolers that used to be middle schoolers that used to be elementary schoolers.
My point was in response to a poster brushing off all SAHM’s as worthless.
I am NOT a SAHM but my above post was to demonstrate how the things that poster demeaned and devalued are very real for many families.

And I suppose yes, if I had a 15 year old home with a blazing fever and pneumonia, yes I would want to be with them. I’m a mother. I love my children and would still want to be there for a very very sick child and not gone from 630am to 6 pm.
Sorry!

Aww. Nice implication that WOHM don't love their children and don't want to be there. Come on. Sure, of course you're not a SAHM...

If OP's wife goes back to work, the household will continue to function happily. Millions of women everywhere manage to work full time, keep a nice home, and raise happy healthy children.

OP is a government employee, a GS-15, he has all the flexibility in the world to stay home with a sick child if his wife gets a job. So again... there's no point in his wife giving up tens of thousands in income "just in case" of this potential "two weeks of pneumonia and raging fever" hypothetical illness you just made up.

The bottom line is that OP wants her to get a job. That was the agreement. She doesn't get to decide on her own that she just doesn't feel like it now, and expect her marriage to continue as before.

Anonymous wrote:

I am a high earner. I don’t feel ENTITLED to it, I just strongly prefer it despite not having it because, well, it’s 2020 and I adapt to the world we live in and also my personal circumstances. But my personal ideal and dream would be a loving marriage with a high earner who I supported with love and taking everything else off his plate. I never asked for feminism, I was just born into a world where 2 income households are essential for most.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

When DH asked me to become a SAHM after my 2nd kid was born, I refused at first. The way to get promoted in my particular field was through seniority. If I left the workplace, I would lose seniority and then I would have had to start from the bottom again. I also did not want my DH to become a jerk and disrespect my contribution later on, or my family to have financial difficulties and not be able to afford a decent life, college and retirement etc.

I told my DH that I would only quit if he could manage the college and retirement on his own and that I would never have to return to work again. When he readily agreed, I believed him because he had not touched a dime of my earnings through out our marriage and he had made me bank 100% of what I had earned under my name. Everything else we own jointly. Added to that was that there was no pre-nup or anything like that.

I also told him that I would retain the cleaning service etc. that I had when I was a WOHM. He agreed for that too. His rationale was that the cleaning service does the work that both he and I don't want to do, so that is a shared benefit.

My kids are in HS now, and DH is extremely grateful that I have been there to guide them through HS and college application process. When I was offered a full-time well paying job recently, my DH and kids were not happy after they realized that I will not be available to run things smoothly. DH is not a highest earner of DCUMland, but we are able to live comfortably (with some luxuries) in 40% of what he earns because we kept our fixed costs low.

I am sympathetic to OP's plight because if he did not have money woes, he probably would not have asked his wife to return to work FT. Also, most people do need the contribution of both spouse to secure their financial future. still, he needs to understand that the way he is approaching this is very disrespectful. This is a financial problem and both OP and his DW need to figure out a way to deal with it. I think his wife would be more amenable to going back to work after the kids go back to college.

Or, most people need to stop overspending for basics like housing. You live within your means. Nice brag.

Living way below our means is not a brag. It is a way to prioritize what is essential...college and retirement. It means A longer commute for my DH, average cars, average wardrobes, home cooked meals, and living with substandard home public school. It means spending money on EC, teaching my kids at home so that they are high achievers and can go to go magnet schools.
It means a weekly cleaning lady who can take over the exhausting chores and that I can use my extensive education to guide my kids.

The thing is that my DH has brains and he is strategic. He supports me because he wants our kids to get the best care and counselling from a highly educated mom. He has allocated my talents in a sphere that benefits our family and our children the most. He is a decent earner who wants to come out ahead in areas of his life that I can make happen...high achieving, well raised happy kids, a smooth running household, a beautiful house, meeting his social and family obligations. And he does not gaslight me like OP is doing. Yes, sure I could have make around 100k and that would have made our household wealthier but what would be the point? He comes home with stories of his colleagues divorcing, the kids having issues with drugs, drinking, teen sex, dropping out and he is immensely grateful of my role and our lives.

I don't for a moment feel bad that we are living in neighborhood with the lowest ranked public schools. We made some sacrifices in housing, commute. But we were very strategic about what we valued. It is amazing to see slow and steady winning the race. I would respect and love my DH even if he made less money because I am smart enough to make silk purse out of a sow ear, but I would have divorced him if he gaslighted me like OP.

So you intentionally put your kids into crappy schools so you can brag about not working and how your DH respects your SAHM role? I’m so confused. It’s like you purposely created adversity so you can feel some sort of purpose instead of both working.

Yeah, I'd say your priorities are messed up, lady!

Anonymous wrote:OP, if the kids are sick, can you take off and stay home with them. Can you do all (and schedule) after school activities, doctors appointments, last minute things as if she starts working she will have no leave and depending on the job, no flexibility. Are you willing to grocery shop, cook, make lunches, help with homework, drive for activities every day? Again, she'll have no flexibility for a while?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude, you did not achieve your potential if you could not support your family.

You can say the same about OPs wife. Women want equality, but refuse to work. Their children have two parents, and it's every much her responsibility to provide for them as it is his. She sounds lazy and wants to socialize with her SAHM friends.

OP, you won't get helpful responses because this board is filled with SAHMs and women who want to bag high earning men so they can be lazy and not work.

Woman here. I would take a high earning husband who loves me over equality anyday. Sorry it’s the truth. I feel so bad for OP’s wife. Not that she may have to work more but because he is a not high earner who doesn’t seem to love her very much.

This is what many women find. My husband knew I would be in and out of the work force, pretty much said it's up to me. We also live beneath our means and still have 2 retirements, and one home paid off. OP and his wife can scale back, the kids can get loans and scholarships for college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You still have kids at home. To you it’s a no-brainer. For her - it will turn her whole world upside down. Will the kids come home to an empty house? Are they old enough to drive themselves to practices? Are you prepared to miss work to cover 50% of the crap that comes up during the day that she’s likely been covering herself for years? What do the kids do all summer while school’s out?

When a mom goes back to work FT after 15 years, everyone suffers a little bit. It will be a big adjustment for the whole family.

There’s more to life than money. Personally I’d rather eat beans than be forced back to work FT against my will so my teens can go home to an empty house from 2-6 every day. It’s not about keeping up with the rainmaker friends. It’s about maintaining connections with the kids while they’re still at home. They’re only under your roof for a couple more years. Can’t you catch up on savings once the kids are gone?

The kids are in HIGH SCHOOL. They can figure all of this out. My 7th grader comes home to an empty house and then picks her younger sister up from the bus stop every day. There's plenty of time for connection at other times.

I hope you pay the older one to babysit the younger one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What if she's fine living on a lower income? You can't make someone work for a lifestyle they don't want, OP. This is my husband. He has a high IQ, multiple terminal degrees, and earns very little in a little business working for NIH scientists. It's maddening that he thinks everything is peachy when all his peers have actual careers and make much more.

Or, he could get a better paying job. That is what my husband did.

I'll bet she does a whole lot more with the kids, and with the job it's f/t. Not to mention cooking and cleaning so OP needs to put a sock in it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

When DH asked me to become a SAHM after my 2nd kid was born, I refused at first. The way to get promoted in my particular field was through seniority. If I left the workplace, I would lose seniority and then I would have had to start from the bottom again. I also did not want my DH to become a jerk and disrespect my contribution later on, or my family to have financial difficulties and not be able to afford a decent life, college and retirement etc.

I told my DH that I would only quit if he could manage the college and retirement on his own and that I would never have to return to work again. When he readily agreed, I believed him because he had not touched a dime of my earnings through out our marriage and he had made me bank 100% of what I had earned under my name. Everything else we own jointly. Added to that was that there was no pre-nup or anything like that.

I also told him that I would retain the cleaning service etc. that I had when I was a WOHM. He agreed for that too. His rationale was that the cleaning service does the work that both he and I don't want to do, so that is a shared benefit.

My kids are in HS now, and DH is extremely grateful that I have been there to guide them through HS and college application process. When I was offered a full-time well paying job recently, my DH and kids were not happy after they realized that I will not be available to run things smoothly. DH is not a highest earner of DCUMland, but we are able to live comfortably (with some luxuries) in 40% of what he earns because we kept our fixed costs low.

I am sympathetic to OP's plight because if he did not have money woes, he probably would not have asked his wife to return to work FT. Also, most people do need the contribution of both spouse to secure their financial future. still, he needs to understand that the way he is approaching this is very disrespectful. This is a financial problem and both OP and his DW need to figure out a way to deal with it. I think his wife would be more amenable to going back to work after the kids go back to college.

Or, most people need to stop overspending for basics like housing. You live within your means. Nice brag.

Living way below our means is not a brag. It is a way to prioritize what is essential...college and retirement. It means A longer commute for my DH, average cars, average wardrobes, home cooked meals, and living with substandard home public school. It means spending money on EC, teaching my kids at home so that they are high achievers and can go to go magnet schools.
It means a weekly cleaning lady who can take over the exhausting chores and that I can use my extensive education to guide my kids.

The thing is that my DH has brains and he is strategic. He supports me because he wants our kids to get the best care and counselling from a highly educated mom. He has allocated my talents in a sphere that benefits our family and our children the most. He is a decent earner who wants to come out ahead in areas of his life that I can make happen...high achieving, well raised happy kids, a smooth running household, a beautiful house, meeting his social and family obligations. And he does not gaslight me like OP is doing. Yes, sure I could have make around 100k and that would have made our household wealthier but what would be the point? He comes home with stories of his colleagues divorcing, the kids having issues with drugs, drinking, teen sex, dropping out and he is immensely grateful of my role and our lives.

I don't for a moment feel bad that we are living in neighborhood with the lowest ranked public schools. We made some sacrifices in housing, commute. But we were very strategic about what we valued. It is amazing to see slow and steady winning the race. I would respect and love my DH even if he made less money because I am smart enough to make silk purse out of a sow ear, but I would have divorced him if he gaslighted me like OP.

So you intentionally put your kids into crappy schools so you can brag about not working and how your DH respects your SAHM role? I’m so confused. It’s like you purposely created adversity so you can feel some sort of purpose instead of both working.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

When DH asked me to become a SAHM after my 2nd kid was born, I refused at first. The way to get promoted in my particular field was through seniority. If I left the workplace, I would lose seniority and then I would have had to start from the bottom again. I also did not want my DH to become a jerk and disrespect my contribution later on, or my family to have financial difficulties and not be able to afford a decent life, college and retirement etc.

I told my DH that I would only quit if he could manage the college and retirement on his own and that I would never have to return to work again. When he readily agreed, I believed him because he had not touched a dime of my earnings through out our marriage and he had made me bank 100% of what I had earned under my name. Everything else we own jointly. Added to that was that there was no pre-nup or anything like that.

I also told him that I would retain the cleaning service etc. that I had when I was a WOHM. He agreed for that too. His rationale was that the cleaning service does the work that both he and I don't want to do, so that is a shared benefit.

My kids are in HS now, and DH is extremely grateful that I have been there to guide them through HS and college application process. When I was offered a full-time well paying job recently, my DH and kids were not happy after they realized that I will not be available to run things smoothly. DH is not a highest earner of DCUMland, but we are able to live comfortably (with some luxuries) in 40% of what he earns because we kept our fixed costs low.

I am sympathetic to OP's plight because if he did not have money woes, he probably would not have asked his wife to return to work FT. Also, most people do need the contribution of both spouse to secure their financial future. still, he needs to understand that the way he is approaching this is very disrespectful. This is a financial problem and both OP and his DW need to figure out a way to deal with it. I think his wife would be more amenable to going back to work after the kids go back to college.

Or, most people need to stop overspending for basics like housing. You live within your means. Nice brag.

Living way below our means is not a brag. It is a way to prioritize what is essential...college and retirement. It means A longer commute for my DH, average cars, average wardrobes, home cooked meals, and living with substandard home public school. It means spending money on EC, teaching my kids at home so that they are high achievers and can go to go magnet schools.
It means a weekly cleaning lady who can take over the exhausting chores and that I can use my extensive education to guide my kids.

The thing is that my DH has brains and he is strategic. He supports me because he wants our kids to get the best care and counselling from a highly educated mom. He has allocated my talents in a sphere that benefits our family and our children the most. He is a decent earner who wants to come out ahead in areas of his life that I can make happen...high achieving, well raised happy kids, a smooth running household, a beautiful house, meeting his social and family obligations. And he does not gaslight me like OP is doing. Yes, sure I could have make around 100k and that would have made our household wealthier but what would be the point? He comes home with stories of his colleagues divorcing, the kids having issues with drugs, drinking, teen sex, dropping out and he is immensely grateful of my role and our lives.

I don't for a moment feel bad that we are living in neighborhood with the lowest ranked public schools. We made some sacrifices in housing, commute. But we were very strategic about what we valued. It is amazing to see slow and steady winning the race. I would respect and love my DH even if he made less money because I am smart enough to make silk purse out of a sow ear, but I would have divorced him if he gaslighted me like OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if the kids are sick, can you take off and stay home with them. Can you do all (and schedule) after school activities, doctors appointments, last minute things as if she starts working she will have no leave and depending on the job, no flexibility. Are you willing to grocery shop, cook, make lunches, help with homework, drive for activities every day? Again, she'll have no flexibility for a while?

Guess what-- those of us who are working parents do ALL of those things. It is very doable.

+1
Typical SAHM excuses.

I’m not a SAHM but the above is real life and it sucks.
When our child was sick for 2 weeks, then another child sick for a week it destroyed us.
We had to cancel a vacation because we blew through our PTO.
To say nothing of trying to eek out work from home and tens to a sick child. It was hard.

We spend our weekends running errands at least one day and it sucks.
After work is a flurry of grabbing kids from school/activities and doing homework, house stuff, etc.
It’s not easy or fun. We do it, but to demean people who choose to avoid this and pretend this isn’t real life is not helpful.

If you have no outside help, no family help, it’s an entirely different level. Please don’t brush that away.

Um, OP has high schoolers. You stayed home for two weeks with a sick high schooler?

High schoolers that used to be middle schoolers that used to be elementary schoolers.
My point was in response to a poster brushing off all SAHM’s as worthless.
I am NOT a SAHM but my above post was to demonstrate how the things that poster demeaned and devalued are very real for many families.

And I suppose yes, if I had a 15 year old home with a blazing fever and pneumonia, yes I would want to be with them. I’m a mother. I love my children and would still want to be there for a very very sick child and not gone from 630am to 6 pm.
Sorry!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here.

When DH asked me to become a SAHM after my 2nd kid was born, I refused at first. The way to get promoted in my particular field was through seniority. If I left the workplace, I would lose seniority and then I would have had to start from the bottom again. I also did not want my DH to become a jerk and disrespect my contribution later on, or my family to have financial difficulties and not be able to afford a decent life, college and retirement etc.

I told my DH that I would only quit if he could manage the college and retirement on his own and that I would never have to return to work again. When he readily agreed, I believed him because he had not touched a dime of my earnings through out our marriage and he had made me bank 100% of what I had earned under my name. Everything else we own jointly. Added to that was that there was no pre-nup or anything like that.

I also told him that I would retain the cleaning service etc. that I had when I was a WOHM. He agreed for that too. His rationale was that the cleaning service does the work that both he and I don't want to do, so that is a shared benefit.

My kids are in HS now, and DH is extremely grateful that I have been there to guide them through HS and college application process. When I was offered a full-time well paying job recently, my DH and kids were not happy after they realized that I will not be available to run things smoothly. DH is not a highest earner of DCUMland, but we are able to live comfortably (with some luxuries) in 40% of what he earns because we kept our fixed costs low.

I am sympathetic to OP's plight because if he did not have money woes, he probably would not have asked his wife to return to work FT. Also, most people do need the contribution of both spouse to secure their financial future. still, he needs to understand that the way he is approaching this is very disrespectful. This is a financial problem and both OP and his DW need to figure out a way to deal with it. I think his wife would be more amenable to going back to work after the kids go back to college.

Or, most people need to stop overspending for basics like housing. You live within your means. Nice brag.