Anonymous
Post 09/13/2019 08:48     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
It doesn't matter how much the man earns. What it comes down to is, "Is he willing and wanting to be a fully engaged partner and parent". You can have a low earning man not want to fully engage, too. It's not about money. It's about the man.


Yet multiple women have written in this thread: it’s about money.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2019 08:13     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.

When you are that high up, you have more flexibility in your job schedule. Think Marissa Mayer and building a nursery next to her office. Middle management type who earn a solid living don't have as much flexibility.

I think there are two types of very high earning men -- one that uses the flexibility they have in their position to be an involved parent or uses their position as an excuse to shirk their duties as a parent/spouse (aka Trump).

It doesn't matter how much the man earns. What it comes down to is, "Is he willing and wanting to be a fully engaged partner and parent". You can have a low earning man not want to fully engage, too. It's not about money. It's about the man.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2019 05:55     Subject: Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read any of the responses but as a woman who is in the 1% and divorced from someone also in the 1%, a LTR with someone who is not successful either artistically, athletically or monetary is not in the cards for me.


What about aesthetically?
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2019 00:25     Subject: Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
I haven’t read any of the responses but as a woman who is in the 1% and divorced from someone also in the 1%, a LTR with someone who is not successful either artistically, athletically or monetary is not in the cards for me.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 22:04     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.


OMG. 1). You keep posting this. You obviously have an agenda to push. 2). I live in an area with these law firm partners, doctors, CEOs, and while they may show up for the soccer game, they are working around the clock the rest of the week and frequently traveling. What you post above is a total fantasy. Please wake up, clueless SAHM.

Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 21:47     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:
That's because spending time with your kids is now a status symbol. More so than a new Mercedes. What is most valuable to those guys? Time



Good God. Guys do something right and you still bitch.


She does not know any guys like this, hence the bitching.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 21:34     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.


My husband is somewhat like this. He was very successful but somehow was always there when we needed him. He rarely if ever worked at home and almost never on weekends. No, he didn't coach little league but he made most games. He was making over seven figures but he somehow knew how to focus his work time on what was really important and delegate the other stuff to very capable people. This gave him the time he needed to be a more normal dad and husband. He was very good at working smart rather than working "hard" as in hours and he made it happen. But I really don't know many others who have been able to do the same.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 19:14     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
That's because spending time with your kids is now a status symbol. More so than a new Mercedes. What is most valuable to those guys? Time



Good God. Guys do something right and you still bitch.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 18:47     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.


That's because spending time with your kids is now a status symbol. More so than a new Mercedes. What is most valuable to those guys? Time.

By the way it is also now easier to make up those hours at the swim meet. Because of laptops and the internet, you can make up the lost billable time in the evening.


Yep, the new status symbol is dumping shit onto someone else. So glad I bailed on biglaw as a 4th year.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 18:22     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.


That's because spending time with your kids is now a status symbol. More so than a new Mercedes. What is most valuable to those guys? Time.

By the way it is also now easier to make up those hours at the swim meet. Because of laptops and the internet, you can make up the lost billable time in the evening.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 18:19     Subject: Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My guess is there has always been a shortage, but now women don’t need to rely on a man to survive. Easier to work than be married to a loser.


Yes women don't need a man to survive or even raise a child.


But studies have shown the benefits to the child from a loving and involved relationship with his/her father.


Aren't there recent studies that show that children (boys and girls) raised by single dads do better in life than children raised by single moms?


Isn't single dads still a tiny, tiny slice of the population? Usually courts side with moms or with joint custody, no?


I read a few years ago that single-dad headed households are the fastest growing household type in the country.

Yes, sure enough: 16 percent of single-parent households are headed by a single father (up from 12 percent a decade ago). So it looks like several million households with children are headed by a single dad.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/living-arrangements.html

One interesting difference between single moms and single dads: nearly all single dads are divorced men, while the majority of single moms were never married.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 16:59     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Over the last few years, I have witnessed a trend that is very surprising to me: ridiculously well compensated men who have some how achieved the ability to get MORE time with their families at the height of their careers. I am talking managing partners of major law firms, developers, high end lobbyists, CEOs of mid sized businesses and large publicly traded ones - all making seven figures and up - who are simply AROUND for their kids. Coaching, volunteering, attending games, taking sons and daughters on trips, driving them to and from stuff. All very successful men who absolutely make time above and beyond the norm to be present for their kids. They all also appear to have strong marriages and do a lot of things with their wives. I am sure they all have help to take a lot of the running around out of their lives and to get chores done but they don't appear to use the time saved for more work or golf or what have you. The new "goal" for the DC super achievers that I know is to use their time well with their families, careers, communities and their hobbies. These are not man-children at all.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 16:58     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:I think the truth is, it is nearly impossible to predict how a man is going to handle parenting/household issues once kids enter the picture and the work increases so much. The fact is that (regardless of his work status/income, regardless of wife’s work/income)- the vast vast majority of men do not pull their weight with parenting/household matters. It isn’t easy to predict...while income is much easier to predict IMO. it isn’t necessarily about being a sahm etc but even as a working mom- if your DH earns a good income you can afford help/outsourcing- good child care, cleaning service, conveniences that make your life easier. If DH makes less the budget may be too tight for those things. Odds are you will be handling these things, one way or another, so better to be able to afford help. If DH truly pulls his weight with house/kids then that eliminates many of the issues surrounding income differential....but so many men will not do this.

The solution is that men need to step it up and pull their weight with house/kids (or have wife cut back or SAH IF they both agree). Or shell out for tons of help (but you can’t outsource everything). There are too many women “doing it all” while men go to work and then loaf around watching tv all evening or doing hobbies etc.


Agree. But the serious resentment that grows in the marriage from a checked out father trying to outsource his life partner and child rearing role is a death knell. Respect will disappear. Because ultimately he does not respect the wife or marriage or kids or his rule as a husband, father or homeowner enough to proactively contribution. All he is is a paycheck and tagalong. And then his wife stops respecting him— unless perhaps he’s super thankful and appreciative and thoughtful in other ways than hands on getting stuff done.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 15:13     Subject: Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
Anonymous wrote:Low earning men and men without college degrees GENERALLY (not always) come from backgrounds that take a dim view of gender equality.

A union between a well compensated, educated woman and a less upwardly mobile man is doomed because she isn't the "right kind of woman."


This.
Anonymous
Post 09/12/2019 15:07     Subject: Re:Shortage of "economically attractive" men reason for marriage decline according to new study
I think the truth is, it is nearly impossible to predict how a man is going to handle parenting/household issues once kids enter the picture and the work increases so much. The fact is that (regardless of his work status/income, regardless of wife’s work/income)- the vast vast majority of men do not pull their weight with parenting/household matters. It isn’t easy to predict...while income is much easier to predict IMO. it isn’t necessarily about being a sahm etc but even as a working mom- if your DH earns a good income you can afford help/outsourcing- good child care, cleaning service, conveniences that make your life easier. If DH makes less the budget may be too tight for those things. Odds are you will be handling these things, one way or another, so better to be able to afford help. If DH truly pulls his weight with house/kids then that eliminates many of the issues surrounding income differential....but so many men will not do this.

The solution is that men need to step it up and pull their weight with house/kids (or have wife cut back or SAH IF they both agree). Or shell out for tons of help (but you can’t outsource everything). There are too many women “doing it all” while men go to work and then loaf around watching tv all evening or doing hobbies etc.