Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great post. I appreciate this is a bit off topic, but (a) what in your mind does Loudoun do differently than FCV and WS that makes Loudoun so well run and (b) what in your mind are the "best-run" youth programs in VA and MD. You seem like a reasonable and well-informed poster, and I'm curious to hear your opinions. I appreciate that others will have different opinions, and I hope nobody turns this into a club-bashing thread. That is really not my intent with my questions.

In general soccer clubs are run by soccer coaches on shoestring budgets with volunteers for staff. A large, profitable club like Loudoun can actually afford pay staffed in critical areas to keep the club running smoothly and organized.

Frankly that's all there is to it. Some club TDs are simply more organized than others but most of these clubs are non-profits simply doing their best.

Loudoun also owns their own fields and therefore has the advantage of not paying for field time. In fact they make money from their facilities and are spending a lot of money to improve them including adding indoor facilities. Their deep pockets and non-profit status are big advantages and allows them to invest in programming, staff and coaching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great post. I appreciate this is a bit off topic, but (a) what in your mind does Loudoun do differently than FCV and WS that makes Loudoun so well run and (b) what in your mind are the "best-run" youth programs in VA and MD. You seem like a reasonable and well-informed poster, and I'm curious to hear your opinions. I appreciate that others will have different opinions, and I hope nobody turns this into a club-bashing thread. That is really not my intent with my questions.

In general soccer clubs are run by soccer coaches on shoestring budgets with volunteers for staff. A large, profitable club like Loudoun can actually afford pay staffed in critical areas to keep the club running smoothly and organized.

Frankly that's all there is to it. Some club TDs are simply more organized than others but most of these clubs are non-profits simply doing their best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That would not be a merger, that would be a purchase. So you are saying that Spirit would buy FCV?

Different poster, but a merger is, by definition, a purchase. In a merger (regardless of whether one is talking about non-profits or for-profits), one entity merges with, and into, another entity. Only one entity survives the merger.

Of course, this is just the legal consequence of a merger between two entities. From a business perspective, the outside world (e.g., customers) may have no idea which entity merged into the other (as a legal matter), as one can set up the operations of the combined businesses to appear as if there are still two different entities. For example, when Apple acquired Beats by merger in 2014, Apple "shut down" Beats Music and launched "Apple Music," but Apple continued to use the Beats brand on certain headphones (and other products) and the Apple brand on other headphones, earbuds, etc.

I have no idea whether Spirit and FCV are merging their two business entities, but if they did, it would certainly be an acquisition by Spirit of FCV given the size of the respective businesses. With that said, it is entirely possible that Spirit may continue to use the FCV "brand" in its youth operations.

That is exactly the point. The value in FCV is the brand of FCV. Purchasing that brand and having it go away serves little to no purpose. The FCV coaches and players are not the property of FCV so there is no value there either because there is no certainty of retaining the players. FCV does not own fields so there is no property value or equity.

If Spirit could not retain the coaches or the players then what would be the point of the expense of purchasing a club. There are no assets beyond a trademark and legacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That would not be a merger, that would be a purchase. So you are saying that Spirit would buy FCV?

Different poster, but a merger is, by definition, a purchase. In a merger (regardless of whether one is talking about non-profits or for-profits), one entity merges with, and into, another entity. Only one entity survives the merger.

Of course, this is just the legal consequence of a merger between two entities. From a business perspective, the outside world (e.g., customers) may have no idea which entity merged into the other (as a legal matter), as one can set up the operations of the combined businesses to appear as if there are still two different entities. For example, when Apple acquired Beats by merger in 2014, Apple "shut down" Beats Music and launched "Apple Music," but Apple continued to use the Beats brand on certain headphones (and other products) and the Apple brand on other headphones, earbuds, etc.

I have no idea whether Spirit and FCV are merging their two business entities, but if they did, it would certainly be an acquisition by Spirit of FCV given the size of the respective businesses. With that said, it is entirely possible that Spirit may continue to use the FCV "brand" in its youth operations.

Anonymous wrote:
That would not be a merger, that would be a purchase. So you are saying that Spirit would buy FCV?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only difference is to scale. The potential income for Spirit is certainly far greater than FCV but I believe Spirit is a long way away from realizing their potential.

The main thing both clubs lack that is holding them back are owning their own fields. Spirit has to rent a stadium for their own games. They don't make money on parking, have to split concessions and have to clear the stadium rent with ticket sales.

FCV also needs to own their own fields and facilities. With fields they can host tourneys, rent them out to other clubs and sports etc. Their economies of scale are different but their problems are pretty similar.

I don't think this is true at all, they are radically different. WS is professional sports business whose primary business goal is to generate revenue via selling tickets, concessions, and merchandise associated with their professional soccer team. Concomitant (and related) to that goal is to develop a pathway for talent to flow into the professional team; this includes the pro reserves team and other development vehicles, such as the DA. A secondary business that is related to the development arm of the primary business goal are the youth programs, primarily the DA, also the SuperY and other youth training programming. This secondary business is essentially standalone from the primary from a business perspective, in that it isn't necessarily required for the primary business to run, but can be very helpful (see men's academies/youth programs in the US and especially internationally).

FCV's primary business goal is WS's secondary business. They exist simply to sell parents a platform for youth soccer. That's it. They do it well at the highest level, but there isn't much meat once you get past their A team's at pretty much any age group on the women's side. In many age group cases, there isn't a viable B team offering, especially at the youngest ages. Since they are private, it's anyone's guess with regard to exactly how financially well off they are, but there have been grumblings of the club being on the brink for years.

From a pure business perspective, WS is much stronger than FCV, especially with respect to revenue. They are not equals, and this is clear once you take away your "soccer" brain and put on your "real-world business " brain. FCV's success in DA programming in terms of wins means, well, squat from a business perspective. Any "merger" between the two would be heavily weighted toward the larger party, in this case WS.

What I find the funniest in this whole discussion, should this "merger" take place is that the real winner here is neither WS nor FCV. It's actually Loudoun Soccer. How many FCV parents, especially those further west, will be willing to trek to GFR fields in Reston and Great Falls when they have a strong elite ECNL option right next door? LS has been salivating for years over some of these FCV players, and it's no stretch to think that a good number of these parents won't go for the more convenient option, which also happens to have a much better run youth program than either WS or FCV, and has for years.

You missed the main point of the weaknesses for each business. Much of their revenue goes to fields and field space.

If a merger were to happen I'm not so certain the GF fields would be used over Evergreen. Again, FCV is a for profit and would not qualify for non-profit pricing or county priority for the fields. FCV would have to have a partnership with Great Falls for that to happen.

No actually, you don't get the point. The point is that FCV may simply go away with this merger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only difference is to scale. The potential income for Spirit is certainly far greater than FCV but I believe Spirit is a long way away from realizing their potential.

The main thing both clubs lack that is holding them back are owning their own fields. Spirit has to rent a stadium for their own games. They don't make money on parking, have to split concessions and have to clear the stadium rent with ticket sales.

FCV also needs to own their own fields and facilities. With fields they can host tourneys, rent them out to other clubs and sports etc. Their economies of scale are different but their problems are pretty similar.

I don't think this is true at all, they are radically different. WS is professional sports business whose primary business goal is to generate revenue via selling tickets, concessions, and merchandise associated with their professional soccer team. Concomitant (and related) to that goal is to develop a pathway for talent to flow into the professional team; this includes the pro reserves team and other development vehicles, such as the DA. A secondary business that is related to the development arm of the primary business goal are the youth programs, primarily the DA, also the SuperY and other youth training programming. This secondary business is essentially standalone from the primary from a business perspective, in that it isn't necessarily required for the primary business to run, but can be very helpful (see men's academies/youth programs in the US and especially internationally).

FCV's primary business goal is WS's secondary business. They exist simply to sell parents a platform for youth soccer. That's it. They do it well at the highest level, but there isn't much meat once you get past their A team's at pretty much any age group on the women's side. In many age group cases, there isn't a viable B team offering, especially at the youngest ages. Since they are private, it's anyone's guess with regard to exactly how financially well off they are, but there have been grumblings of the club being on the brink for years.

From a pure business perspective, WS is much stronger than FCV, especially with respect to revenue. They are not equals, and this is clear once you take away your "soccer" brain and put on your "real-world business " brain. FCV's success in DA programming in terms of wins means, well, squat from a business perspective. Any "merger" between the two would be heavily weighted toward the larger party, in this case WS.

What I find the funniest in this whole discussion, should this "merger" take place is that the real winner here is neither WS nor FCV. It's actually Loudoun Soccer. How many FCV parents, especially those further west, will be willing to trek to GFR fields in Reston and Great Falls when they have a strong elite ECNL option right next door? LS has been salivating for years over some of these FCV players, and it's no stretch to think that a good number of these parents won't go for the more convenient option, which also happens to have a much better run youth program than either WS or FCV, and has for years.

You missed the main point of the weaknesses for each business. Much of their revenue goes to fields and field space.

If a merger were to happen I'm not so certain the GF fields would be used over Evergreen. Again, FCV is a for profit and would not qualify for non-profit pricing or county priority for the fields. FCV would have to have a partnership with Great Falls for that to happen.

Anonymous wrote:Great post. I appreciate this is a bit off topic, but (a) what in your mind does Loudoun do differently than FCV and WS that makes Loudoun so well run and (b) what in your mind are the "best-run" youth programs in VA and MD. You seem like a reasonable and well-informed poster, and I'm curious to hear your opinions. I appreciate that others will have different opinions, and I hope nobody turns this into a club-bashing thread. That is really not my intent with my questions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only difference is to scale. The potential income for Spirit is certainly far greater than FCV but I believe Spirit is a long way away from realizing their potential.

The main thing both clubs lack that is holding them back are owning their own fields. Spirit has to rent a stadium for their own games. They don't make money on parking, have to split concessions and have to clear the stadium rent with ticket sales.

FCV also needs to own their own fields and facilities. With fields they can host tourneys, rent them out to other clubs and sports etc. Their economies of scale are different but their problems are pretty similar.

I don't think this is true at all, they are radically different. WS is professional sports business whose primary business goal is to generate revenue via selling tickets, concessions, and merchandise associated with their professional soccer team. Concomitant (and related) to that goal is to develop a pathway for talent to flow into the professional team; this includes the pro reserves team and other development vehicles, such as the DA. A secondary business that is related to the development arm of the primary business goal are the youth programs, primarily the DA, also the SuperY and other youth training programming. This secondary business is essentially standalone from the primary from a business perspective, in that it isn't necessarily required for the primary business to run, but can be very helpful (see men's academies/youth programs in the US and especially internationally).

FCV's primary business goal is WS's secondary business. They exist simply to sell parents a platform for youth soccer. That's it. They do it well at the highest level, but there isn't much meat once you get past their A team's at pretty much any age group on the women's side. In many age group cases, there isn't a viable B team offering, especially at the youngest ages. Since they are private, it's anyone's guess with regard to exactly how financially well off they are, but there have been grumblings of the club being on the brink for years.

From a pure business perspective, WS is much stronger than FCV, especially with respect to revenue. They are not equals, and this is clear once you take away your "soccer" brain and put on your "real-world business " brain. FCV's success in DA programming in terms of wins means, well, squat from a business perspective. Any "merger" between the two would be heavily weighted toward the larger party, in this case WS.

What I find the funniest in this whole discussion, should this "merger" take place is that the real winner here is neither WS nor FCV. It's actually Loudoun Soccer. How many FCV parents, especially those further west, will be willing to trek to GFR fields in Reston and Great Falls when they have a strong elite ECNL option right next door? LS has been salivating for years over some of these FCV players, and it's no stretch to think that a good number of these parents won't go for the more convenient option, which also happens to have a much better run youth program than either WS or FCV, and has for years.

Anonymous wrote:The only difference is to scale. The potential income for Spirit is certainly far greater than FCV but I believe Spirit is a long way away from realizing their potential.

The main thing both clubs lack that is holding them back are owning their own fields. Spirit has to rent a stadium for their own games. They don't make money on parking, have to split concessions and have to clear the stadium rent with ticket sales.

FCV also needs to own their own fields and facilities. With fields they can host tourneys, rent them out to other clubs and sports etc. Their economies of scale are different but their problems are pretty similar.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/nwsl/washington-spirit-announces-technical-staff-for-2019-season/



Joining Burke as newcomers on Washington’s first team staff are Michael Minthorne (High Performance Coach) and Christian Cziommer (Tactical Analyst & Team Performance Coach)

welcome to 2 pages ago

Read it again minute man, this one adds Christian Cziommer to the mix, especially pertinent to today's discussion.

Yeah, the link was posted at 1pm on page 13 of this thread. You're late. We've been discussing for hours.

Wups, I guess I was too busy working today. My bad!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro/nwsl/washington-spirit-announces-technical-staff-for-2019-season/



Joining Burke as newcomers on Washington’s first team staff are Michael Minthorne (High Performance Coach) and Christian Cziommer (Tactical Analyst & Team Performance Coach)

welcome to 2 pages ago

Read it again minute man, this one adds Christian Cziommer to the mix, especially pertinent to today's discussion.

Yeah, the link was posted at 1pm on page 13 of this thread. You're late. We've been discussing for hours.