Anonymous
05/03/2022 18:36
Subject: Re:What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Honestly, I blame the mainstream media for *never* holding Republicans’ feet to the fire on this issue. A few simple questions would have helped voters really understand what they were getting by electing Republicans:
1. Is abortion murder?
2. If a woman gets an abortion, should she be charged with a crime? If so, what is the appropriate penalty?
3. Do you believe in the death penalty?
4. Should rape victims be forced to deliver their rapists’ baby?
5. Should police investigate miscarriages?
Just for starters. But they were allowed to slide and here we are.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 16:44
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.
Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.
True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.
Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.
They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!
Is this what liberals think? Poor = welfare = crime? That's kind of harsh for a party that claims it's "progressive."
Ummm. This has actually been looked at and proven - abortion brings down crime rates. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Someone on one of these threads claimed banning abortion will increase abortions? Seems counterintuitive. Anyone have any evidence for claim?
Anonymous
05/03/2022 16:28
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait until the rich Republicans realize their 35 year old daughters can’t abort a fetus that tests positive for Down Syndrome. Did you know that the majority are aborted?
The rich will just travel to where it is legal.
No. Get out there ladies and fight this fight. We now need to travel out of our own states to get a fundamental right held by the voters in another state? Our kids deserve the same rights held by the people of the blue states.
We needed this five years ago. It's too late now. The whole purpose of Donald Trump was to turn the Supreme Court. It's turned, and there is nothing we can do about it at this point. Roe is just the first domino.
Take money away from candidates and corporations in support of this.
The time to do this was FIVE YEARS AGO. You can ban and boycott all you want. The court is what it is. This is what people meant when they said you weren’t really voting for Hilary (or Trump, really). You were voting for future Supreme Court justices, and the decisions they would make. Too late and too bad now. Gah. NOW you get it.
Amazon will assist employees from states with abrotion bans to get services. They better also use their political donations to fight back.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 15:51
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?
As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.
NP
I hope you are f'ing ashamed of yourself.
Why do you think they'll stop at Roe? Why wouldn't banning access to abortion nationwide be on the table as the first act of a unified Republican Congress and Presidency? That would completely undermine whatever "states' rights" are in places like New York and California or NJ. The decision could likely lead to overturning Obergefell as well, given the draft opinion apparently criticizes this decision.
+1. Read the opinion. It dismantles the legal reasoning which not just abortion but contraception and marriage equality are based on. It also flirts with recognizing a fetus as a person, which would grant a fetus all the constitutional rights of citizenship. That tees up the abolition of all abortion everywhere.
Rights are being freely granted these days to just about anything. There is for example a global movement to grant rights to the natural world, and great progress is being made.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/16/new-zealand-river-granted-same-legal-rights-as-human-being
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/25/rivers-around-the-world-rivers-are-gaining-the-same-legal-rights-as-people
It shouldn't be considered concerning or outrageous that a human fetus would be considered a person, with all the associate rights, certainly not in that context.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 15:36
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?
As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.
NP
I hope you are f'ing ashamed of yourself.
Why do you think they'll stop at Roe? Why wouldn't banning access to abortion nationwide be on the table as the first act of a unified Republican Congress and Presidency? That would completely undermine whatever "states' rights" are in places like New York and California or NJ. The decision could likely lead to overturning Obergefell as well, given the draft opinion apparently criticizes this decision.
+1. Read the opinion. It dismantles the legal reasoning which not just abortion but contraception and marriage equality are based on. It also flirts with recognizing a fetus as a person, which would grant a fetus all the constitutional rights of citizenship. That tees up the abolition of all abortion everywhere.
Anonymous
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:36
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Lots of people on this thread from years ago need to come back and apologize, then make some decisions about why you drew such bad conclusions.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:34
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?
As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.
I hope you realize, among many things, that this forum is filled with transplants from all over the US and the world.
I’m from one of the poorest municipalities in the US.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:33
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?
As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.
Why the f**k should anyone, especially a poor woman, have to take out a payday loan or credit card to get an abortion? I thought you were in the party of personal responsibility?
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:32
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.
Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.
True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.
Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.
They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!
Is this what liberals think? Poor = welfare = crime? That's kind of harsh for a party that claims it's "progressive."
Ummm. This has actually been looked at and proven - abortion brings down crime rates. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Someone on one of these threads claimed banning abortion will increase abortions? Seems counterintuitive. Anyone have any evidence for claim?
My guess is they incorrectly extrapolated from the fact that typically abortions go down under democratic power and up under republican power. It seems (logically and based on real data) that when you provide societal support for women and easy/accurate birth control, unwanted pregnancies - and hence abortions - go down!
For a party that hates abortions so much, the republicans seem to go out of their way to set up scenarios when abortions would be in higher demand.
No, we say it because it’s true. Banning abortion makes abortions go up, probably because “abortion” isn’t just abortion, it’s a good way to examine how a culture feels about women in general. Are women valuable equal members of society or just breeding mares? Are women trusted enough to make their own healthcare decisions or does the “small government” conservatives in a country think the government needs to step in and make these decisions?
It’s born out in fact:
“And abortion rates are actually four times higher in low-income countries where abortion is prohibited than in high-income countries where it is broadly legal.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/abortion-rates-don-t-drop-when-procedure-outlawed-it-does-ncna1235174
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:31
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.
Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.
True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.
Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.
They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!
Is this what liberals think? Poor = welfare = crime? That's kind of harsh for a party that claims it's "progressive."
Ummm. This has actually been looked at and proven - abortion brings down crime rates. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Someone on one of these threads claimed banning abortion will increase abortions? Seems counterintuitive. Anyone have any evidence for claim?
“Abortion rates are highest in countries that legally restrict access to terminations, but lowest in high-income countries where abortion and contraception are accessible, a new study has found.”
https://www.scidev.net/global/news/abortion-rates-highest-where-legally-restricted-study/
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:31
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Liberals just need something to be upset about these days. We’re a million miles away from Roe being overturned. Even if it is, abortion will become state by state. Do you honestly believe places like NY or CA or NJ ever turn red enough that no abortions will be offered anywhere?
As for --- OMG poor people can’t afford that. Give me a break, I’m having a very hard time believing the Harvard educated, raised in Greenwich/Long Island biglaw women I work with are soooo personally concerned about ghetto black women or rural Indiana white women. And let’s be honest, how many abortions does the average women get in a lifetime? Across all women, I bet it’s 0. But even if I’m wrong and it’s 1 or 2. I’m sorry if you need to get rid of a kid, 2x in your life, you will borrow from your baby daddy or a get pay day loan, get yourself on a greyhound bus and a motel 6 room and get it done. This is America, not rural Africa or South America; even poor people have access to credit cards – charge it all and pay it back for years, you’ll still get what you need. And if you don’t have credit, see above re pay day loans. It’s not THAT big of a deal.
OMG. You’re a racist, ignorant POS.
But sure, go take out a 900% APR tribal loan.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:29
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait until the rich Republicans realize their 35 year old daughters can’t abort a fetus that tests positive for Down Syndrome. Did you know that the majority are aborted?
The rich will just travel to where it is legal.
No. Get out there ladies and fight this fight. We now need to travel out of our own states to get a fundamental right held by the voters in another state? Our kids deserve the same rights held by the people of the blue states.
We needed this five years ago. It's too late now. The whole purpose of Donald Trump was to turn the Supreme Court. It's turned, and there is nothing we can do about it at this point. Roe is just the first domino.
Take money away from candidates and corporations in support of this.
The time to do this was FIVE YEARS AGO. You can ban and boycott all you want. The court is what it is. This is what people meant when they said you weren’t really voting for Hilary (or Trump, really). You were voting for future Supreme Court justices, and the decisions they would make. Too late and too bad now. Gah. NOW you get it.
Anonymous
05/03/2022 13:24
Subject: What does it mean to “ban” abortion?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.
Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.
True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.
Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.
They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!
Is this what liberals think? Poor = welfare = crime? That's kind of harsh for a party that claims it's "progressive."
Ummm. This has actually been looked at and proven - abortion brings down crime rates. https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/
Someone on one of these threads claimed banning abortion will increase abortions? Seems counterintuitive. Anyone have any evidence for claim?
My guess is they incorrectly extrapolated from the fact that typically abortions go down under democratic power and up under republican power. It seems (logically and based on real data) that when you provide societal support for women and easy/accurate birth control, unwanted pregnancies - and hence abortions - go down!
For a party that hates abortions so much, the republicans seem to go out of their way to set up scenarios when abortions would be in higher demand.