Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

And Asians too. But the majority of blacks who are struggling with education do not have a language barrier or immigration issues. ESOL services are mainly being used by Hispanics.

What information do you base this statement on?

The unskilled, uneducated hispanic community here seems to need 3-5 years of ESOl (at any entry age), whereas an educated family from XYZ country re-locating here needs 1 year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

And Asians too. But the majority of blacks who are struggling with education do not have a language barrier or immigration issues. ESOL services are mainly being used by Hispanics.

What information do you base this statement on?

Being in a school with ESOL services. The reality on ground.

If we could put all struggling students in a different classroom with ESOL support and extra aides - we would be able to do it cheaply. The whole school does not need ESOL or extra aides. Struggling students and disruptive students should not be in the regular classroom. It is as simple as that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:drop out rates already 50%+ in that demo by 10th grade.

[Citation needed]

click though any MCPS annual report for drop out rates by demographic and test scores over grade levels by demographic.
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/annualreport/2017/


I don't know what is worse, the standardized test scores showing proficiency level at diminishing low %'s each grade for ESOL and FARMS over time, or increasing drop out rates each grade for ESOl and FARMS.
At that point it's a two-way swing: more and more ESOL and FARMS are dropping out from 4th grade to 6th to 8th to 10th grade, and the ones left are scoring worse and worse, from 50% being proficient to 35% to 25% from grades 4 through 10.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

And Asians too. But the majority of blacks who are struggling with education do not have a language barrier or immigration issues. ESOL services are mainly being used by Hispanics.

What information do you base this statement on?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

^^^I apologize for the frustrated tone in my post. But really, my impression from reading DCUM is that there are a whole lot of posters on DCUM who have never had a social interaction with a person who is black or Hispanic. Let alone black and Hispanic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

And Asians too. But the majority of blacks who are struggling with education do not have a language barrier or immigration issues. ESOL services are mainly being used by Hispanics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you need is 1 disruptive kid or behind kid in your "high caliber class" and that is the time sink. Too much pressure to test well and get everyone to same level.

The only thing worse than public school is a massive county-run public school.

OK, let's get rid of the public school system! No more public schools. And then what?

put an aide in the classrooms. that's how DCPS and private schools handle it. and lower max caps on # of kids per class.
so much more effective to teach over 22 kids of different abilities when there are two teachers, not one. the rotating centers structure doesn't cut it, never will.

DCPS isn't nearly the size of MCPS and you are also allowed to fund for your own aides, which many schools do. You are not allowed to do that in MCPS

MCPS excuses or not, the result of having two adults teaching a young class which is smaller than MCPS young classes is more effective teaching and education for the children.

Anonymous wrote:In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

There are black people in America who are immigrants from countries with languages that aren't American English (or English at all). True fact.

In the current reality of no fees, free education for everyone - what else can be done to close the achievement gap?

We need to remember that while both AA and HI students are lagging behind that's where the similarity ends. AA students do not have a language barrier or immigration issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Since ESOL is a special service, perhaps ESOL intervention should have a fee. Remove ESOL from the free education conversation. Unless there is a financial burden no one would have any incentive to learn the language easy way.

Special ed is a special service too. Gifted ed also a special service. Fees for special ed and gifted ed! Right?

Alternatively, we can stop with the idea that public schools are fee-for-service. They're not.

Fee for gifted and special ed? As a parent of a twice gifted child I would be willing to pay a subsidized fee. If all students paid $500 a year in MCPS, we would have 70 million dollars extra.

Anonymous wrote:

not the PP but what the ???

Why doesn't the adult who wanted to come here, not speak English?
Wouldn't the government building ask why the child is there and not in school? I highly doubt that would be allowed.

Which country do you live in, and how old are you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Since ESOL is a special service, perhaps ESOL intervention should have a fee. Remove ESOL from the free education conversation. Unless there is a financial burden no one would have any incentive to learn the language easy way.

Special ed is a special service too. Gifted ed also a special service. Fees for special ed and gifted ed! Right?

Alternatively, we can stop with the idea that public schools are fee-for-service. They're not.

+1 Also, unlike access to magnet programs, access to ELL services is a legal right.

Just as access to education itself is a legal right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how will struggling families manage all of your suggested fines? More than likely kids will drop out as soon as possible.

The struggling families will not pay any fine if their students show up for school. Simple.

The idea is to not pay the fine, no?

It sounds simple to you. It's not simple in reality. There are lots of reasons why kids from struggling schools miss school, most of which are not "because they just didn't feel like it that day". If you didn't go to school because your housing situation is unstable or you had to go interpret for your parent at a government office or you had to stay home and watch your baby relative or ... how will a fine make you more likely to go to school?

The reality is that there are many valid reasons for missing school and these will be excused absences no doubt. However, if there are fines associated with absentism then the parents will make alternate arrangements and act like parents. This is the price to pay for being in America.

But school is free childcare. It isn't really needed in their eyes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And how will struggling families manage all of your suggested fines? More than likely kids will drop out as soon as possible.

The struggling families will not pay any fine if their students show up for school. Simple.

The idea is to not pay the fine, no?

It sounds simple to you. It's not simple in reality. There are lots of reasons why kids from struggling schools miss school, most of which are not "because they just didn't feel like it that day". If you didn't go to school because your housing situation is unstable or you had to go interpret for your parent at a government office or you had to stay home and watch your baby relative or ... how will a fine make you more likely to go to school?

not the PP but what the ???

Why doesn't the adult who wanted to come here, not speak English?
Wouldn't the government building ask why the child is there and not in school? I highly doubt that would be allowed.