Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 11:57     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Honestly, you sound whiney and needy.

Look, you admitted you've let your "bod" go a little. You have NO interest in her whatsoever. You're having sex, just not often. But, it's not the quality of sex you want. So, you want it your way or no way.

Look, you're not going to fix this unless you deal with your "I don't care" attitude. You won't. So work on that. And talk to her about what you want sexually.

Also, have you thought maybe YOU aren't giving her what she wants sexually? Not everyone wants long sex sessions on the regular. Make it fast and fun. Make sure she is enjoying herself. Honestly, if she were, maybe you wouldn't be having this problem. So, look a bit at yourself and quit just blaming her.


Look, of course he's needy. His needs aren't being met by his wife and he's not legally or ethically permitted to go elsewhere.

And you're not paying attention. He has talked to her. She shut him down. She doesn't want to listen. She also doesn't want to talk. If she has sexual preferences that would make sex better for her, she needs to say something instead of crying when the subject comes up and/or she needs to show him what she likes instead of just laying there. That's if she has any sexual interest. It's entirely possible, she just doesn't want to have sex -- no matter what OP does or doesn't do.

And you ignore that OP didn't start out disinterested. That disinterest is the product of what sounds like a long period of rejection from his wife. His interest isn't going to make the sex life better -- it was the crappy sex life that snuffed out his interest in the first place.


Maybe her needs weren't being met, which lead to her lack of interest. No one ever thinks this is an issue. I agree they need to discuss it more but he seems totally not willing to be open to that aspect of it.

And you ignore OP's post where he has NOT DISCUSSED the fact that he is utterly and completely disinterested in his wife. So, yeah, no. He has not been completely open with her.

He sounds high maintenance and whiny. No one is attracted to that.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 11:21     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:All these pages later, and still OP hasn't told us what explanations his wife gives for having no interest in sex. And no, "she just cries and says she feels like a bad wife" is not acceptable. That's a defensive response, not a productive examination and explanation. Does she have orgasms? Is she attracted to you? Do you have real skills (not the bogus stuff you see porn guys do)? Is she angry with you?

Maybe she's a typical burned-out woman with multiple kids and a job, who's so overextended that sleep feels better than anything. Very common for certain phases of life, and we can all sympathize with the effect on both sides.

Does she take meds that make her enjoy sex less or not at all? Do you two have toys to help her enjoy it? If she's just sprawled there like a doll while you putter around with her, and she has no sexual response, then something is really wrong. Maybe your techniques don't suit her, and maybe she's afraid to take charge of her enjoyment and use a toy or tell you what she likes.

If you've ever experienced ED, you know that feeling pressure to perform makes it worse. She could be feeling something like that.

So, any answers?


OP Here

All these pages later, and still OP hasn't told us what explanations his wife gives for having no interest in sex. And no, "she just cries and says she feels like a bad wife" is not acceptable. That's a defensive response, not a productive examination and explanation. Does she have orgasms? Is she attracted to you? Do you have real skills (not the bogus stuff you see porn guys do)? Is she angry with you? ----Explanations mostly revolve around being tired, busy, frustrated by her day, just not in the mood right now etc. Nothing tangible or actionable. She does have orgasms when we do have sex. I assume she isn't attracted to me anymore or we would probably be having sex I think I have skills, have been with many women before her with no complaint, she had no complaint before when we were having more sex and if there is a complaint, she won't share it. I don't think she is angry with me, overall we get along good and no major events like cheating/spending all our money on dumb things or anything like that

Maybe she's a typical burned-out woman with multiple kids and a job, who's so overextended that sleep feels better than anything. Very common for certain phases of life, and we can all sympathize with the effect on both sides. ----She is, but she was like this starting after we got married and before we had kids. Plus a pretty equal distribution of the house work and kid stuff, so she really shouldn't be more burned out than I am, I have a much more demanding and time intensive job. With three kids you have to share work evenly just for the logistical aspect of it, not trying to be a super dad/husband, just needs to be done.

Does she take meds that make her enjoy sex less or not at all? Do you two have toys to help her enjoy it? If she's just sprawled there like a doll while you putter around with her, and she has no sexual response, then something is really wrong. Maybe your techniques don't suit her, and maybe she's afraid to take charge of her enjoyment and use a toy or tell you what she likes. ----No meds that she takes. She has a dildo she had since before we got together and I got her a vibe but she won't incorporate either. Both in her drawer, never come out. I have asked numerous times if there is anything she wants to try/do differently and she says no.

Just wanted to respond to your questions.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 10:54     Subject: Just don't really care
All these pages later, and still OP hasn't told us what explanations his wife gives for having no interest in sex. And no, "she just cries and says she feels like a bad wife" is not acceptable. That's a defensive response, not a productive examination and explanation. Does she have orgasms? Is she attracted to you? Do you have real skills (not the bogus stuff you see porn guys do)? Is she angry with you?

Maybe she's a typical burned-out woman with multiple kids and a job, who's so overextended that sleep feels better than anything. Very common for certain phases of life, and we can all sympathize with the effect on both sides.

Does she take meds that make her enjoy sex less or not at all? Do you two have toys to help her enjoy it? If she's just sprawled there like a doll while you putter around with her, and she has no sexual response, then something is really wrong. Maybe your techniques don't suit her, and maybe she's afraid to take charge of her enjoyment and use a toy or tell you what she likes.

If you've ever experienced ED, you know that feeling pressure to perform makes it worse. She could be feeling something like that.

So, any answers?
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 10:32     Subject: Re:Just don't really care
OP here. Thanks for all the replies. Really I wasn't complaining or looking for reasons why or ways to improve it. I have done all of the things that the well meaning posters have replied to no avail. The bottom line is that at this point I am just kind of over it. No, I don't want to divorce over sex, we do have a good life overall. That said, I just find it increasingly to care about my wife as a wife when the part of our relationship that makes it a marriage is pretty much gone. Really all I was looking for was to see if anyone on here had been in my shoes and how they managed it without making the marriage worse.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 09:32     Subject: Re:Just don't really care
An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.

You can keep telling it to yourself to no end, but it is cheating. If it helps you cheat with a clear conscience then go ahead, but you will be the only one thinking it, your spouse didn't agree. Why is so important to you to not get divorce if you need to find an AP and be open about it? I am actually curious. I said many times in my marriage: if you don't like it then go file. I wasn't taken on this offer, but was presented with an AP. Ex saw AP as a solution and he was not happy about the divorce I filed for (as in his mind he solved the problem). I understand people having secret affairs, but I don't understand the out in the open "I am meeting my needs" ones.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 09:26     Subject: Just don't really care
Op, I understand and sympathize.

I’m the wife. Married 10 years, 2 little ones. Sex once or twice a week and I do get into it but never initiate. I do it because I love my husband and my marriage and my family. Even if I’m not in the mood sex is a part of marriage and i committed to my husband as a partner. The fact that you’ve , I presume, told her that this is affecting your marriage / confidence / happiness etc is a huge red flag. If my husband said that I’d be horrified and we have a marriage of equals (in fact I make more money etc so this isn’t the little wifey bowing down).

You’re not wrong and anyone who says you are has their own marriage issues. Trust me.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 09:11     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

On here, it just means the man isn't getting laid every day


you need therapy.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 08:23     Subject: Just don't really care
OP, do you do what it takes to get your wife off every time? I.e. are you willing to go down on her after intercourse?

If not, then don't complain on here.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 08:22     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:

When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?


On here, it just means the man isn't getting laid every day
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2018 06:18     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no


You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.


I don't get your point. What is the benefit of declaring "I am going to cheat from now on" (which is identical to declaring an open marriage)? To get the spouse to file because you don't have the guts yourself, so you can tell yourself (and others) that you wanted to preserve the marriage but the spouse didn't?


What is the point in staying married to somebody you don't want sex with? Is that just a selfish attempt to force your normal libido spouse into filing for divorce because you don't have the guts yourself?

Basically any and everything you might say about a spouse declaring Open Marriage, I can reverse your words and say the exact same thing about a spouse declaring Sexless marriage. Because these are 100% equivalent, despicable, unloving acts. If anything, the sexless marriage declaration is far WORSE because that comes unprompted. At least the Open Marriage is a justified response to the spouse who struck first with the sexless marriage declaration.


If absence of sex doesn't bother me then why wouldn't I stay in the marriage if the rest is fine. No need for divorce.
I still don't understand what's a "declared open marriage". Any state will at fault divorce grant one for your actions without any wait time. Is that the point? I will give you that it's a response to the absence of sex, but it's not justified. Leave, file for divorce if you are unhappy, don't pretend you are preserving the marriage.


Likewise, if you don't care about sex why divorce a partner who's just informed you the marriage is Open when everything else is fine? No need for divorce.
A declared open marriage is the same as a declared sexless marriage: both are unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage any regard for how the other spouse thinks about it. Very few states now care about your sex life. You can easily get a divorce no matter who you are (or are not) having sex with. How can you say that declaring Sexless is justified yet declaring Open is not justified? These are 100% equivalent. Some people it seems like their marriage in all respects except for sex. So why divorce over something so unimportant as sex? If it's not important enough to have regularly, why divorce over something so insignificant (... when you spouse goes elsewhere for it). Just be happy some other woman is doing the job you don't want. Meanwhile you keep your otherwise happy marriage going. Win-Win.

There is a need for divorce if your husband cheating disgusts you or bothers you. It's one thing to agree on an open marriage and another to declare it. You are trying to present the declaration as a viable alternative to sexless. It is not. An open marriage is only an alternative if both parties agree. If you have to declare, then there is no agreement and all you do is not filing for divorce first.
I never said anything about justified sexless, I only said that there is nothing justified about cheating, which is what you are doing by declaring. There multiple reasons why the marriage becomes sexless and low libido is often just a convenient excuse, there are always other problems (despite OP's attempt at portraying it as all good).

It's one thing to agree to a sexless marriage and another thing to declare it. If both parties did not agree (in advance) to the sexless marriage, then it is not necessary to obtain your spouse's "approval" before declaring the marriage Open. If either side is unhappy with being in a sexless or Open marriage which they did not consent to, there is an easy exit called divorce. Apparently though, some people want to stay together "for the kids" or for financial reasons so that is a deterrent to simply getting divorced. The innocent victim in these situations is the normal libido spouse who had no choice in the marriage becoming sexless. So if this spouse prefers to stay married by Open it, that is fair and reasonable and let the spouse who's guilty of destroying the marriage (by initially declaring it Sexless) be then one to decide on staying or divorcing. An Open marriage is not cheating, it is a lifestyle choice just like celibacy is a lifestyle choice for the spouse who declared the marriage Sexless.
Anonymous
Post 03/08/2018 22:11     Subject: Just don't really care

Maybe it's not her, but just a time in your life when you're in the midst of a middle life transition and you're focusing on her as the "problem"? Are you keeping up your social life? Does work feel the same to you as it once did?

You mentioned "Dad bod," so why not try some exercise to boost your endorphins and make a change?

Start with your self. Try therapy, one or two sessions, just to see if there may be other reasons you're feeling this way.

Anonymous
Post 03/08/2018 22:03     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:

Honestly, you sound whiney and needy.

Look, you admitted you've let your "bod" go a little. You have NO interest in her whatsoever. You're having sex, just not often. But, it's not the quality of sex you want. So, you want it your way or no way.

Look, you're not going to fix this unless you deal with your "I don't care" attitude. You won't. So work on that. And talk to her about what you want sexually.

Also, have you thought maybe YOU aren't giving her what she wants sexually? Not everyone wants long sex sessions on the regular. Make it fast and fun. Make sure she is enjoying herself. Honestly, if she were, maybe you wouldn't be having this problem. So, look a bit at yourself and quit just blaming her.


Look, of course he's needy. His needs aren't being met by his wife and he's not legally or ethically permitted to go elsewhere.

And you're not paying attention. He has talked to her. She shut him down. She doesn't want to listen. She also doesn't want to talk. If she has sexual preferences that would make sex better for her, she needs to say something instead of crying when the subject comes up and/or she needs to show him what she likes instead of just laying there. That's if she has any sexual interest. It's entirely possible, she just doesn't want to have sex -- no matter what OP does or doesn't do.

And you ignore that OP didn't start out disinterested. That disinterest is the product of what sounds like a long period of rejection from his wife. His interest isn't going to make the sex life better -- it was the crappy sex life that snuffed out his interest in the first place.
Anonymous
Post 03/08/2018 21:31     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Alot of bitter angry men on this thread. It's not complicated, guys. Here is the 10 second fix to your sexless marriage: "Dear, we need to talk. While I am happy with you as a wife, I can not go on without a normal, regular sex life. You can decide where we go from here: regular sex; open marriage; an ex-husband."


With an open marriage, men need to be careful what they wish for. Any woman can attract hundreds of potential takers within minutes. If you are a potbellied man without good bank, well...


True that most women can find sex much easier than any man. Thing is, they won’t because they don’t have the sex drive to put in even that minimal effort. Whereas the man, despite it being 100 times more effort, is driven to pursue sex at all costs. In the end, he gets more sex because he’s motivated.


No, he'll probably get fired. "Pursuing sex at all costs" sounds borderline rape to me TBH. I'm a woman and I can't imagine any sane woman having an affair with a middle class Joe. We usually want something from a man and there is nothing here. Maybe some crazy into boiling bunnies would be interested.
Anonymous
Post 03/08/2018 21:29     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"Sex dried up" is pretty vague -- are you initiating and getting shot down or you're both just busy and it's not a priority? As for the rest -- you don't care if she's home sick, you don't want to hear about her day, "she's not a bitch" but you don't care about her -- you are posting like the problem is her but you sound like a really bad husband in your own words. Like, not even a decent acquaintance, let alone lover.


Op here, terrible sex like once every two months. Initiate and get shut down whenever I do. Last time we did I almost told her to stop because honestly it was less enjoyable than doing it myself but I knew that would hurt her a lot. I would not argue your points, that is kind of the point of my post. I am trying to see if there are any suggestions on how to deal with this situation. I am not trying to be like this, and if we rewound the tape to 3/6/17 I would have gotten her soup, stayed at home in bed with her as long as I could have before going back to work and probably texted her like 4 times to see if she needed anything. I just don't have it in me anymore.

If you think she didn't feel that you wanted to stop, you are dead wrong. You were not enjoying her, a huge problem. I don't care if you enjoy yourself, but you can't have a good sex life without enjoying your mate and her knowing it. It can't be just lack of sex that made you not care, if you say that you are friends. Why do you go home for lunch if it only brings the negative out? What is so appalling about your wife? Give us more than "no sex".


Hi, OP here. I wanted to stop because there was absolutely no investment from her. She won't let me enjoy her, she just lays there and I can tell that she just wants to get it over with. Its not about me, I'm not a horny guy that wants crazy sex every day, I have tried even just getting her off without expecting anything in return and even that was met with lukewarm at best response. Its not the lack of sex, its the lack of having a wife that wants to be my wife that has me where I am. Sure, she is a good friend and we get along well, but I don't have sex with my good friends, I have sex with my wife. She is the only outlet I chose for a romantic physical connection and she has shut it down-for whatever reason. I'm not even really mad at her, I don't think she wants to have this type of relationship, but at this point I don't see her as a romantic partner, someone that just lives there. I went home for lunch because I live there and that is where I always go to for lunch, she just happened to be there sick today. She's not appalling, we get through the day to day fine, feeding kids, going shopping etc. I just find that I don't really care that much about engaging with her after repeated attempts to have a marital relationship.



Honestly, you sound whiney and needy.

Look, you admitted you've let your "bod" go a little. You have NO interest in her whatsoever. You're having sex, just not often. But, it's not the quality of sex you want. So, you want it your way or no way.

Look, you're not going to fix this unless you deal with your "I don't care" attitude. You won't. So work on that. And talk to her about what you want sexually.

Also, have you thought maybe YOU aren't giving her what she wants sexually? Not everyone wants long sex sessions on the regular. Make it fast and fun. Make sure she is enjoying herself. Honestly, if she were, maybe you wouldn't be having this problem. So, look a bit at yourself and quit just blaming her.
Anonymous
Post 03/08/2018 21:14     Subject: Just don't really care
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no


You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.


I don't get your point. What is the benefit of declaring "I am going to cheat from now on" (which is identical to declaring an open marriage)? To get the spouse to file because you don't have the guts yourself, so you can tell yourself (and others) that you wanted to preserve the marriage but the spouse didn't?


What is the point in staying married to somebody you don't want sex with? Is that just a selfish attempt to force your normal libido spouse into filing for divorce because you don't have the guts yourself?

Basically any and everything you might say about a spouse declaring Open Marriage, I can reverse your words and say the exact same thing about a spouse declaring Sexless marriage. Because these are 100% equivalent, despicable, unloving acts. If anything, the sexless marriage declaration is far WORSE because that comes unprompted. At least the Open Marriage is a justified response to the spouse who struck first with the sexless marriage declaration.


If absence of sex doesn't bother me then why wouldn't I stay in the marriage if the rest is fine. No need for divorce.
I still don't understand what's a "declared open marriage". Any state will at fault divorce grant one for your actions without any wait time. Is that the point? I will give you that it's a response to the absence of sex, but it's not justified. Leave, file for divorce if you are unhappy, don't pretend you are preserving the marriage.


Likewise, if you don't care about sex why divorce a partner who's just informed you the marriage is Open when everything else is fine? No need for divorce.
A declared open marriage is the same as a declared sexless marriage: both are unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage any regard for how the other spouse thinks about it. Very few states now care about your sex life. You can easily get a divorce no matter who you are (or are not) having sex with. How can you say that declaring Sexless is justified yet declaring Open is not justified? These are 100% equivalent. Some people it seems like their marriage in all respects except for sex. So why divorce over something so unimportant as sex? If it's not important enough to have regularly, why divorce over something so insignificant (... when you spouse goes elsewhere for it). Just be happy some other woman is doing the job you don't want. Meanwhile you keep your otherwise happy marriage going. Win-Win.

There is a need for divorce if your husband cheating disgusts you or bothers you. It's one thing to agree on an open marriage and another to declare it. You are trying to present the declaration as a viable alternative to sexless. It is not. An open marriage is only an alternative if both parties agree. If you have to declare, then there is no agreement and all you do is not filing for divorce first.
I never said anything about justified sexless, I only said that there is nothing justified about cheating, which is what you are doing by declaring. There multiple reasons why the marriage becomes sexless and low libido is often just a convenient excuse, there are always other problems (despite OP's attempt at portraying it as all good).