Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 16:13     Subject: Re:APS middle school boundary process
We live a little under 1.5 miles from Jefferson and just over 2 miles from Gunston, but because of where the boundary is my kid rides the bus to Gunston. Seems preety dicey to me when he wants to ride his bike (has to ride down Glebe and get under 395 while crossing several on and off ramps). Would never in a million years occur to me to complain about this or insist that we switch to a "walkable" middle school. Life isn't perfect and I can't believe how many people think that their kid should be entitled to the public school experience that they have decided is optimal, over what is best for the 20,000 student population as a whole. Get over yourselves.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 16:01     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Listen -- I don't know WTF you're talking about coral shirts. I see that you're all for taking your kids out of walking distance school and putting them on school buses, though, so hooray?
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 15:59     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.




So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.


To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.


Give me a break -- there would be no ability to walk and you know it. So the kids from Dominion Hills are supposed to cross Wilson Blvd. during rush hour (no overpass/underpass there for a 4-lane highway), make their way down Wilson, walk down Carlin Springs under the underpass, dodging cars that are getting on/off Route 50, and then get to school? Yeah, OK. Hey, maybe they could just walk across the overpass near Home Depot and make their way along Route 50 - what do you care, right? Not your kid.

Or they could continue walk to their neighborhood school without having to cross any busy streets -- of course you prefer the option that takes kids out of their walking distance school so you can participate in some sort of experiment.


You realize that kids in Arlington Forest cross under the underpass daily now? Kids from Barcroft have to walk along 50 to get home. So far, so good. As to your comment about "experiment?" Well, go get your coral shirt and do what you think you must.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 15:58     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.




So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.


To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.


Give me a break -- there would be no ability to walk and you know it. So the kids from Dominion Hills are supposed to cross Wilson Blvd. during rush hour (no overpass/underpass there for a 4-lane highway), make their way down Wilson, walk down Carlin Springs under the underpass, dodging cars that are getting on/off Route 50, and then get to school? Yeah, OK. Hey, maybe they could just walk across the overpass near Home Depot and make their way along Route 50 - what do you care, right? Not your kid.

Or they could continue walk to their neighborhood school without having to cross any busy streets -- of course you prefer the option that takes kids out of their walking distance school so you can participate in some sort of experiment.


DP without kids at Swanson. If the above comes to pass, or any scenario that necessitates putting ms kids in a position where walking means crossing busy highways, secluded walking trails, etc., the school board damn well better provide bus service regardless of the distance to the school. Nothing about the above scenario says walkable to me, and I would chime in with parents at any school who object to it.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 15:50     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.




So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.


To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.


Give me a break -- there would be no ability to walk and you know it. So the kids from Dominion Hills are supposed to cross Wilson Blvd. during rush hour (no overpass/underpass there for a 4-lane highway), make their way down Wilson, walk down Carlin Springs under the underpass, dodging cars that are getting on/off Route 50, and then get to school? Yeah, OK. Hey, maybe they could just walk across the overpass near Home Depot and make their way along Route 50 - what do you care, right? Not your kid.

Or they could continue walk to their neighborhood school without having to cross any busy streets -- of course you prefer the option that takes kids out of their walking distance school so you can participate in some sort of experiment.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 15:40     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.




So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.


To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 15:32     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
We are zoned Henry and Jefferson and now with the henry move will not be able to walk to ES, MS or HS.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 15:20     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
I haven't complained on this thread. I support H. We are zoned TJ in all scenarios. We will never walk anywhere.


Really? For all 13 years of school?

My kids only got to walk to one of their schools, although maybe zones will change so that other people in our PU will get to walk to another one (my kids are out ES).
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:59     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???


I don't follow your point, unless it is that my UMC children will turn out just fine going through the south arlington schools, of which the lowest FARMS rate is Gunston at 33% and apparently projected to rise to around 40%, and I'm selfish for not wanting to help the other kids in the system who may not fare as well. If that is your point, it's taken, but in response all I can say is, the situation is what it is, not everyone agrees with you and me on the need for diversity, and many, many people don't agree with it when it comes at a concrete cost to their own kid. I'm doing the best I can for my family. I'm happy to advocate for increased diversity, but I don't think it's realistic or even necessarily fair, depending on how you look at it, to sacrifice literally all other factors in service of diversity.


What is the "concrete cost" to your own kid, though? I think people really exaggerate (in their minds, anyhow) the negative effects of going to a school with, say, 33% of kids on FARMS, like Gunston. A third of the kids at W-L are on FARMS and it appears to be the highest performing high school in Arlington the last few years. Yet the benefits of having less segregation -- for ALL KIDS -- are pretty well documented. And another 5-10 minutes on the car or bus, while a pain, is not the end of the world.


Cool
- well you go argue that with the mommies and daddies of the rarified north. See how far it gets you.
Yes, segregation is bad. 33% is totally fine.
If you've been following any of this you would know it's a lost cause. We'll get raked over the coals in the press. No one will care.


Which scenario do you support? If none, what do you propose? Or do you just like to sit around and complain.


I haven't complained on this thread. I support H. We are zoned TJ in all scenarios. We will never walk anywhere.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:22     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???


I don't follow your point, unless it is that my UMC children will turn out just fine going through the south arlington schools, of which the lowest FARMS rate is Gunston at 33% and apparently projected to rise to around 40%, and I'm selfish for not wanting to help the other kids in the system who may not fare as well. If that is your point, it's taken, but in response all I can say is, the situation is what it is, not everyone agrees with you and me on the need for diversity, and many, many people don't agree with it when it comes at a concrete cost to their own kid. I'm doing the best I can for my family. I'm happy to advocate for increased diversity, but I don't think it's realistic or even necessarily fair, depending on how you look at it, to sacrifice literally all other factors in service of diversity.


Not PP you were responding to, but I agree that we shouldn't sacrifice all the other factors in service of diversity. That said, I don't think there are any scenarios that do that. Even the one that is labeled "diversity" doesn't do that. But as someone who prioritizes diversity, within reason, I don't agree that just because this boundary adjustment doesn't do everything, that it should do nothing. That was one of the arguments last time--that a handful of neighborhoods (from the W-L boundary) should not be "sacrificed" to diversity while Yorktown's diversity didn't improve, so diversity should just be disregarded. I just hope we don't repeat the mistake. Small, incremental change is the way forward. Otherwise the divide deepens, and when we have to do the next boundary change, people will be even more resistant to be moved into a higher fr/l school, and eventually that school that was 50% fr/l becomes 75%, and then you can't honestly tell me those kids are going to get the same educational experience as their cohorts two miles away, despite the excellent teachers, administrator, and facilities.





Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:20     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???


I don't follow your point, unless it is that my UMC children will turn out just fine going through the south arlington schools, of which the lowest FARMS rate is Gunston at 33% and apparently projected to rise to around 40%, and I'm selfish for not wanting to help the other kids in the system who may not fare as well. If that is your point, it's taken, but in response all I can say is, the situation is what it is, not everyone agrees with you and me on the need for diversity, and many, many people don't agree with it when it comes at a concrete cost to their own kid. I'm doing the best I can for my family. I'm happy to advocate for increased diversity, but I don't think it's realistic or even necessarily fair, depending on how you look at it, to sacrifice literally all other factors in service of diversity.


What is the "concrete cost" to your own kid, though? I think people really exaggerate (in their minds, anyhow) the negative effects of going to a school with, say, 33% of kids on FARMS, like Gunston. A third of the kids at W-L are on FARMS and it appears to be the highest performing high school in Arlington the last few years. Yet the benefits of having less segregation -- for ALL KIDS -- are pretty well documented. And another 5-10 minutes on the car or bus, while a pain, is not the end of the world.


Cool
- well you go argue that with the mommies and daddies of the rarified north. See how far it gets you.
Yes, segregation is bad. 33% is totally fine.
If you've been following any of this you would know it's a lost cause. We'll get raked over the coals in the press. No one will care.


Which scenario do you support? If none, what do you propose? Or do you just like to sit around and complain.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:19     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???


I don't follow your point, unless it is that my UMC children will turn out just fine going through the south arlington schools, of which the lowest FARMS rate is Gunston at 33% and apparently projected to rise to around 40%, and I'm selfish for not wanting to help the other kids in the system who may not fare as well. If that is your point, it's taken, but in response all I can say is, the situation is what it is, not everyone agrees with you and me on the need for diversity, and many, many people don't agree with it when it comes at a concrete cost to their own kid. I'm doing the best I can for my family. I'm happy to advocate for increased diversity, but I don't think it's realistic or even necessarily fair, depending on how you look at it, to sacrifice literally all other factors in service of diversity.


What is the "concrete cost" to your own kid, though? I think people really exaggerate (in their minds, anyhow) the negative effects of going to a school with, say, 33% of kids on FARMS, like Gunston. A third of the kids at W-L are on FARMS and it appears to be the highest performing high school in Arlington the last few years. Yet the benefits of having less segregation -- for ALL KIDS -- are pretty well documented. And another 5-10 minutes on the car or bus, while a pain, is not the end of the world.


There isn't one. I'm not the Swanson poster. My kids will be going to Gunston, then Wakefield, and they will do just fine. The Swanson poster has identified a concrete cost to her kid. I agree with you that the benefits for all kids of socioeconomic integration are documented about as well as social science can document something like that, AND I would argue that the benefits to all kids outweigh the costs to a smaller group of kids who don't get to walk. But, we lose credibility and effectiveness in trying to solve this problem if we tell people to suck it up because their concerns don't matter. (Goodness knows South Arlington should be familiar with this tactic, what with all the time the SB spends telling us that all Arlington schools are great and demographics are NBD.) I can't make everyone make the choice I made about where to live and which schools to send my kids to. I can advocate for arrangements that I think serve the entire community best, while trying to balance everyone's concerns.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:15     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???


I don't follow your point, unless it is that my UMC children will turn out just fine going through the south arlington schools, of which the lowest FARMS rate is Gunston at 33% and apparently projected to rise to around 40%, and I'm selfish for not wanting to help the other kids in the system who may not fare as well. If that is your point, it's taken, but in response all I can say is, the situation is what it is, not everyone agrees with you and me on the need for diversity, and many, many people don't agree with it when it comes at a concrete cost to their own kid. I'm doing the best I can for my family. I'm happy to advocate for increased diversity, but I don't think it's realistic or even necessarily fair, depending on how you look at it, to sacrifice literally all other factors in service of diversity.


What is the "concrete cost" to your own kid, though? I think people really exaggerate (in their minds, anyhow) the negative effects of going to a school with, say, 33% of kids on FARMS, like Gunston. A third of the kids at W-L are on FARMS and it appears to be the highest performing high school in Arlington the last few years. Yet the benefits of having less segregation -- for ALL KIDS -- are pretty well documented. And another 5-10 minutes on the car or bus, while a pain, is not the end of the world.


Cool
- well you go argue that with the mommies and daddies of the rarified north. See how far it gets you.
Yes, segregation is bad. 33% is totally fine.
If you've been following any of this you would know it's a lost cause. We'll get raked over the coals in the press. No one will care.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:10     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???


I don't follow your point, unless it is that my UMC children will turn out just fine going through the south arlington schools, of which the lowest FARMS rate is Gunston at 33% and apparently projected to rise to around 40%, and I'm selfish for not wanting to help the other kids in the system who may not fare as well. If that is your point, it's taken, but in response all I can say is, the situation is what it is, not everyone agrees with you and me on the need for diversity, and many, many people don't agree with it when it comes at a concrete cost to their own kid. I'm doing the best I can for my family. I'm happy to advocate for increased diversity, but I don't think it's realistic or even necessarily fair, depending on how you look at it, to sacrifice literally all other factors in service of diversity.


What is the "concrete cost" to your own kid, though? I think people really exaggerate (in their minds, anyhow) the negative effects of going to a school with, say, 33% of kids on FARMS, like Gunston. A third of the kids at W-L are on FARMS and it appears to be the highest performing high school in Arlington the last few years. Yet the benefits of having less segregation -- for ALL KIDS -- are pretty well documented. And another 5-10 minutes on the car or bus, while a pain, is not the end of the world.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2017 13:07     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


Wow, a bit heavy, don't you think? I thought only parents in N. Arl. were seemingly this selfish? You mean to say that even parents in the Southern part only care about their own backyard? So you say the stated need for diversity is all a ruse???



Dp- is reading hard for you? I don't want to insult you if you have some sort of developmental delay...
The above post is obviously saying that we should do the best we can within reason. If that means that Williamsburg becomes under capacity, all white, and rich- so be it. The county has created some borderline insurmountable problems. We can only do so much. If there is a solution that solves most of our issues, but Williamsburg ends up not shouldering their fair share- so be it.
I'm not looking for a pound of flesh as a south Arlington parent. Just a reasonable plan.


Thanks PP. I'm the original PP, also a south arl parent, and just responded below. It sounds we'd agree with each other IRL. Except maybe for the developmental delay comment, that was kind of mean


It was totally mean, but I didn't like that they called you selfish.