Anonymous wrote:I'm a white upper middle class professional, and I was a FARMs kid with a sketchy home life. These comments about people not wanting their children to be around FARMs kids verifies everything I thought about some of the judgemental adults that I interacted with. You really don't know how your kids will turn out- or how the FARMs kids will. But, you can teach kindness and openness and that at least you'll have done the right thing.

Sure, you can absolutely teach kindness and openness without sending your kids to a "diverse" school.

Most parents are doing this because they have bought into this liberal garbage, and they want to convince themselves and others that they are virtuous. The reality is they would never send their children to a predominately black school for reasons that I can't say because my post will get deleted. Hint, it's not just because they are inferior students

I'm a white upper middle class professional, and I was a FARMs kid with a sketchy home life. These comments about people not wanting their children to be around FARMs kids verifies everything I thought about some of the judgemental adults that I interacted with. You really don't know how your kids will turn out- or how the FARMs kids will. But, you can teach kindness and openness and that at least you'll have done the right thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

PP, what's your ethnic background? If you are not WASP, then at some point in our history you were not white either. See Nell Erving Painter's " A History of White People."

What does any of this matter?

We are so hung up on race and culture that we're moving nowhere FAST!

And now we're immediately judged on skin color. My friend and I are both teachers - Italian-Americans. She didn't grow up with the language; I did. She is, however, so olive-complected that she's approached by all people who attempt to engage her in conversation in another language. I am fair-skinned and never approached by anyone who is "ethnic." This makes it easier for her in the classroom, too, as kids immediately react to her differently, too. We share the same values and teaching styles, but the trust factor issue isn't a concern for her.

She checks off the white box, too!

sad that we're still making assumptions based on skin color

And yes, Italians at one point were in internment camps and even lynched in the South, as they, too, had to follow Jim Crow Laws. not the case any longer

We are a very confused country with no culture or even a shared language. So how do we move forward?

Freakin' Guineas were in internment camps b/c we were at war with their homeland, just like the Japanese. They were never subject to Jim Crow. Those that were lynched were lynched in New Orleans following the murder of the police chief allegedly by Italian gangsters.

We cannot move forward until this country acknowledges and accepts the legacy of slavery and racism.

You're calling me a guinea? You need to read up on some obscure research that never made it mainstream - and that was done on purpose.

Tu sei un cafone.

http://www.faculty.umb.edu/lawrence_blum/courses/232_12/readings/guglielmo_no_color_barrier.pdf

It's all good man! I read the article, and my takeaway, which is reiterated both at the beginning of the article and at the end is that Italian- Americans, like every other European immigrant group, had "white privilege" from the day they arrived in America and it is somewhat inaccurate for many to contrast their experience of "pulling themselves up" by their bootstraps" with the experience of African Americans who have been here 400 plus years and were enslaved and discriminated against in ways no other group - especially white European immigrants - can ever claim. Shall I quote the relative passages from the article for you?

I will give you another article to read - this one by the great American author James Baldwin entitled the "American Dream and the American Negro." The African - American was robbed of over two hundred years of their own labor - labor that could have built family wealth passed inter-generationally that was simply stolen. Baldwin very powerfully points this out: "From a very literal point of view, the harbors and the ports and the railroads of the country--the economy, especially in the South--could not conceivably be what they are if it had not been (and this is still so) for cheap labor. I am speaking very seriously, and this is not an overstatement: I picked cotton, I carried it to the market, I built the railroads under someone else's whip for nothing. For nothing. The Southern oligarchy which has still today so very much power in Washington, and therefore some power in the world, was created by my labor and my sweat and the violation of my women and the murder of my children. This in the land of the free, the home of the brave. None can challenge that statement. It is a matter of historical record."

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/29/specials/baldwin-dream.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

PP, what's your ethnic background? If you are not WASP, then at some point in our history you were not white either. See Nell Erving Painter's " A History of White People."

I am the very first PP. I am sorry, I just copied the ethnic composition as it is mentioned on GS for our school. I don't know if they were right or wrong labeling kids this way. All I know many parents don't speak English or speak a very broken one, and many are supposedly poor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

PP, what's your ethnic background? If you are not WASP, then at some point in our history you were not white either. See Nell Erving Painter's " A History of White People."

What does any of this matter?

We are so hung up on race and culture that we're moving nowhere FAST!

And now we're immediately judged on skin color. My friend and I are both teachers - Italian-Americans. She didn't grow up with the language; I did. She is, however, so olive-complected that she's approached by all people who attempt to engage her in conversation in another language. I am fair-skinned and never approached by anyone who is "ethnic." This makes it easier for her in the classroom, too, as kids immediately react to her differently, too. We share the same values and teaching styles, but the trust factor issue isn't a concern for her.

She checks off the white box, too!

sad that we're still making assumptions based on skin color

And yes, Italians at one point were in internment camps and even lynched in the South, as they, too, had to follow Jim Crow Laws. not the case any longer

We are a very confused country with no culture or even a shared language. So how do we move forward?

Freakin' Guineas were in internment camps b/c we were at war with their homeland, just like the Japanese. They were never subject to Jim Crow. Those that were lynched were lynched in New Orleans following the murder of the police chief allegedly by Italian gangsters.

We cannot move forward until this country acknowledges and accepts the legacy of slavery and racism.

You're calling me a guinea? You need to read up on some obscure research that never made it mainstream - and that was done on purpose.

Tu sei un cafone.

http://www.faculty.umb.edu/lawrence_blum/courses/232_12/readings/guglielmo_no_color_barrier.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

PP, what's your ethnic background? If you are not WASP, then at some point in our history you were not white either. See Nell Erving Painter's " A History of White People."

What does any of this matter?

We are so hung up on race and culture that we're moving nowhere FAST!

And now we're immediately judged on skin color. My friend and I are both teachers - Italian-Americans. She didn't grow up with the language; I did. She is, however, so olive-complected that she's approached by all people who attempt to engage her in conversation in another language. I am fair-skinned and never approached by anyone who is "ethnic." This makes it easier for her in the classroom, too, as kids immediately react to her differently, too. We share the same values and teaching styles, but the trust factor issue isn't a concern for her.

She checks off the white box, too!

sad that we're still making assumptions based on skin color

And yes, Italians at one point were in internment camps and even lynched in the South, as they, too, had to follow Jim Crow Laws. not the case any longer

We are a very confused country with no culture or even a shared language. So how do we move forward?

Freakin' Guineas were in internment camps b/c we were at war with their homeland, just like the Japanese. They were never subject to Jim Crow. Those that were lynched were lynched in New Orleans following the murder of the police chief allegedly by Italian gangsters.

We cannot move forward until this country acknowledges and accepts the legacy of slavery and racism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

PP, what's your ethnic background? If you are not WASP, then at some point in our history you were not white either. See Nell Erving Painter's " A History of White People."

What does any of this matter?

We are so hung up on race and culture that we're moving nowhere FAST!

And now we're immediately judged on skin color. My friend and I are both teachers - Italian-Americans. She didn't grow up with the language; I did. She is, however, so olive-complected that she's approached by all people who attempt to engage her in conversation in another language. I am fair-skinned and never approached by anyone who is "ethnic." This makes it easier for her in the classroom, too, as kids immediately react to her differently, too. We share the same values and teaching styles, but the trust factor issue isn't a concern for her.

She checks off the white box, too!

sad that we're still making assumptions based on skin color

And yes, Italians at one point were in internment camps and even lynched in the South, as they, too, had to follow Jim Crow Laws. not the case any longer

We are a very confused country with no culture or even a shared language. So how do we move forward?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

PP, what's your ethnic background? If you are not WASP, then at some point in our history you were not white either. See Nell Erving Painter's " A History of White People."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

I have no idea! I got my stats from Greatschools Most of the spanish speaking students in our school don't look white to me. But I really haven't given it much thought.

Anonymous wrote:My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

Do you mean non-white Hispanic or total Hispanic? Hispanic is not a race. You can be white or black and be Hispanic. Not sure where you're getting your stats from.

What? This question implies non-white student bodies are not quality. That is so racist. Ugh

My child is at a "diverse" school (if what you mean by diversity is a lot of people who are not like me or my child). 65% hispanic, 10% filipino, 10% white, the rest is other races. Half of the kids are English learners, 70% FARMS.
No, I didn't send my kid there for diversity. It is a neighborhood school and we settled in the neighborhood long before schools were on our radar, so I thought I would give it a shot.
Would I be happy if all the FARMS people up and left? Sure! Would I be happy to have more kids at school who look and think like my kid? Heck yeah! But so far it's working out fairly well as it is; it's a 7 minute walk from our house, the principal is great, the teachers are great, my child performs above grade level from what I see.
The upside has been that everyone knows my child and me, just because I am involved in the PTA, my kid is white (because there are not too many whites), and because I am a decent parent Also, the kid is left alone when he cannot "perform" and most of the time, he catches up soon (he was below grade level in K, on grade level in 1st, now in 2nd he is above grade level). He is just a kid who doesn't perform well in a competitive environment, but does well when he is one of the strongest students.
The downside has been that it is difficult to hang out with anyone outside school. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves. Also, there are fewer extracurriculars, but when the school has them, they are usually free or low cost.
I am just a person who prefers to work with what I have been given, so it is working out for our family. If something changes, I will of course reconsider.

I've taught at schools on both ends of the spectrum. There are certainly kids who misbehave in both places but the difference is that when I called to talk to parents about behavior, the parents of the kids in the higher SES school contacted me back. I have never met most the parents of the kids at my Title 1 school. I call and leave messages and I get nothing. I call and the phones are disconnected. Sometimes our admins do home visits and nobody is there. One girl in our school had a seizure in class and nobody could get in touch with her parents at all. It is radio silence and it isn't just me. At my old school, the parents would call me back or call the office. A few years ago, I had a parent scream at me as I was a walking to my car. I had no idea who she was. She was yelling about me giving her daughter too much homework. When I asked who she was, she looked at me like I was crazy and told me who her child was. I had never seen her before and never saw her after that. A lot of kids misbehave but I felt like I had backup in my old school.

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately it is difficult to have true diversity without also dealing with the negative effects that brings. I really think everyone wants diversity but for most people that means people of different colors, SES, religions etc but when you have low SES combined with other things you get behavior issues 100% of the time. Sure some schools with diversity will have it less than others but this is the way it is. So sure you can have a school with excellent diversity that has great teachers and good parental involvement but you will have to deal with the 5-6 kids in the class who don't give a F*** and constantly disrupt the class etc... So Therin lies the problem.

Yes, all children of affluent, educated parents are well-behaved and care about learning.

Wait, what?

Unfortunately it is difficult to have true diversity without also dealing with the negative effects that brings. I really think everyone wants diversity but for most people that means people of different colors, SES, religions etc but when you have low SES combined with other things you get behavior issues 100% of the time. Sure some schools with diversity will have it less than others but this is the way it is. So sure you can have a school with excellent diversity that has great teachers and good parental involvement but you will have to deal with the 5-6 kids in the class who don't give a F*** and constantly disrupt the class etc... So Therin lies the problem.