Anonymous
Post 05/21/2017 08:33     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:First, there is no sophomore cheating ring. By sophomore year the kids are all taking different classes - with mixed grades in many of them - and a cheating ring organized by class year would be ineffective.

Second, the discipline received by students isn't made public by VA regulation. There is no announcement on the loudspeaker that Jimmy has been expelled for 3 days and has to take a zero on the last test, or what have you. This would also apply to any discipline issue at any school and to your child as well, should they encounter any problems. So though you say the school does nothing, you don't actually know that the school has done things. (And we've already heard vociferously at dcum that the base school parents don't want any discipline issues ejected from TJ)

Third, you aren't there to see the hallway behavior - you are just spreading rumors or hearsay. If you are there and see something like that go report it immediately and the cell phones will be taken away, hall will be monitored etc., in real time.



There was and continues to a sophomore cheating ring. And if you don't know about it, you either don't have a kid at TJ or pay zero attention. Do you talk to your kid, read TJ Vents, follow Real Talk TJ and know about the assemblies they have had? Do you get the honor code violations emails? This has been a huge issue at the school. Either you are deeply in denial or don't have a kid there. Or you have a sophomore cheater. And of course the sophomore kid have many of the same classes. The math department gives the same Math 4/5 test across all classes and kids are in standardized CHUM/ HUM plus Chem or AP Chem blocks.

And it isn't a rumor. My kid is the hallway between classes, and we talk about the important things at school. And I talk to my kid's teachers and other parents whose kids are saying the exact same thing. And as an adult, I would report this behavior. But I see why kids wouldn't. There has a nasty backlash by cheaters going on and no protection for kids who report. Check out the TJ vent from yesterday about all the '"snakes" who hc (report honor code violation). The kids also know that the kids caught cheating stay at the school, in the classes without their grade effected. Or any other substantive punishment.

TJ has a real cheating problem. If you are a member of the TJ community and don't know this, then you are incredibly out of touch. TJ needs to address this problem. Not play "see no evil, hear no evil."
Anonymous
Post 05/21/2017 08:00     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:I am pretty sure other HS don't send out quarterly statements about the disciplinary issues by category and what the school is doing to improve on them and how they compare to past quarters. And am pretty sure that TJ has no lock on cheating - but because it's about the only discipline problem teachers see (kids don't skip, they don't use substances, they don't bully, they don't fight, they don't curse in class, etc.) it tends to get reported. If teachers had more pressing concerns they would likely report those more often and cheating would fall aside.


If you think there are not kids at TJ using substances, bullying, and cursing, you're nuts. And cheating is obviously a larger problem at TJ than at other schools. There is a huge cost to the constant effort to put these kids on a giant pedesta. They know they aren't as special as their parents constantly make them out to be, and the pressure to live up to those false expectations are enormous.
Anonymous
Post 05/21/2017 07:43     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
First, there is no sophomore cheating ring. By sophomore year the kids are all taking different classes - with mixed grades in many of them - and a cheating ring organized by class year would be ineffective.

Second, the discipline received by students isn't made public by VA regulation. There is no announcement on the loudspeaker that Jimmy has been expelled for 3 days and has to take a zero on the last test, or what have you. This would also apply to any discipline issue at any school and to your child as well, should they encounter any problems. So though you say the school does nothing, you don't actually know that the school has done things. (And we've already heard vociferously at dcum that the base school parents don't want any discipline issues ejected from TJ)

Third, you aren't there to see the hallway behavior - you are just spreading rumors or hearsay. If you are there and see something like that go report it immediately and the cell phones will be taken away, hall will be monitored etc., in real time.

Anonymous
Post 05/21/2017 01:05     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:First-- you know as well as I do that TJ is only being transparent about cheating because they have to be. Addressing the cheating is at the top of the school improvement plan. And thus far they are "addressing" it by gathering data and reporting it. But they aren't really cracking down. So, let's not pretend that they are being transparent for the sake of being transparent. The "transparency" is mandated.

And they are not cracking down. The massive sophomore cheating ring this year? My kid says it's still operating. Some kids reported it. They held a school wide meeting (at which they assured kids they can not tell colleges if a kid cheats). The Administration wagged their fingers at the kids who cheated and told them to stop. The cheaters turned around and bullied the kids who had reported it-- viciously. And kept cheating.

All of the kids know the sophomore cheating ring is still operational. My kids says the students involved take pictures of the test on their phones during the test and text it out. The other kids see it. The teacher appears not to. They also walk out of class and stand in the middle of the hallway telling other kids that question 25 is A, etc. they aren't even bothering to hide it.

And, again, this cheating ring was reported, and the kids were found to have honor code violations. But, nothing substantive happened to the cheaters and the kids who reported were bullied badly. So now the kids know better to report.

But TJ should definately pat itself on the back for releasing the number of cheating incidents, because they are required to. Right?

The Administration at TJ does not care.


Truly pathetic. I hope colleges figure this out. It's horribly unfair to the honest kids at TJ that end up with lower GPAs.
Anonymous
Post 05/21/2017 01:05     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:First-- you know as well as I do that TJ is only being transparent about cheating because they have to be. Addressing the cheating is at the top of the school improvement plan. And thus far they are "addressing" it by gathering data and reporting it. But they aren't really cracking down. So, let's not pretend that they are being transparent for the sake of being transparent. The "transparency" is mandated.

And they are not cracking down. The massive sophomore cheating ring this year? My kid says it's still operating. Some kids reported it. They held a school wide meeting (at which they assured kids they can not tell colleges if a kid cheats). The Administration wagged their fingers at the kids who cheated and told them to stop. The cheaters turned around and bullied the kids who had reported it-- viciously. And kept cheating.

All of the kids know the sophomore cheating ring is still operational. My kids says the students involved take pictures of the test on their phones during the test and text it out. The other kids see it. The teacher appears not to. They also walk out of class and stand in the middle of the hallway telling other kids that question 25 is A, etc. they aren't even bothering to hide it.

And, again, this cheating ring was reported, and the kids were found to have honor code violations. But, nothing substantive happened to the cheaters and the kids who reported were bullied badly. So now the kids know better to report.

But TJ should definately pat itself on the back for releasing the number of cheating incidents, because they are required to. Right?

The Administration at TJ does not care.


Does the admin not care, or do the parents of the kids who cheat push back so hard that TJ ends up with their hands essentially tied?

Anonymous
Post 05/21/2017 00:25     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
First-- you know as well as I do that TJ is only being transparent about cheating because they have to be. Addressing the cheating is at the top of the school improvement plan. And thus far they are "addressing" it by gathering data and reporting it. But they aren't really cracking down. So, let's not pretend that they are being transparent for the sake of being transparent. The "transparency" is mandated.

And they are not cracking down. The massive sophomore cheating ring this year? My kid says it's still operating. Some kids reported it. They held a school wide meeting (at which they assured kids they can not tell colleges if a kid cheats). The Administration wagged their fingers at the kids who cheated and told them to stop. The cheaters turned around and bullied the kids who had reported it-- viciously. And kept cheating.

All of the kids know the sophomore cheating ring is still operational. My kids says the students involved take pictures of the test on their phones during the test and text it out. The other kids see it. The teacher appears not to. They also walk out of class and stand in the middle of the hallway telling other kids that question 25 is A, etc. they aren't even bothering to hide it.

And, again, this cheating ring was reported, and the kids were found to have honor code violations. But, nothing substantive happened to the cheaters and the kids who reported were bullied badly. So now the kids know better to report.

But TJ should definately pat itself on the back for releasing the number of cheating incidents, because they are required to. Right?

The Administration at TJ does not care.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 22:22     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
I am pretty sure other HS don't send out quarterly statements about the disciplinary issues by category and what the school is doing to improve on them and how they compare to past quarters. And am pretty sure that TJ has no lock on cheating - but because it's about the only discipline problem teachers see (kids don't skip, they don't use substances, they don't bully, they don't fight, they don't curse in class, etc.) it tends to get reported. If teachers had more pressing concerns they would likely report those more often and cheating would fall aside.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 21:55     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:Yes there was a student harassing others at TJ and TJ students write a thorough and compelling piece about it. One student. Not that other students can't or don't do such things - but not in any higher amount than goes on at any school -- and arguably rather less. There aren't apparent cliques at TJ. There's not a lot of bullying. There's not a team drinking culture. No one smokes pot around the fringes of the buliding.

There have been quantified honor code issues this year. These could be cheating, sharing homework answers, looking over at another student's paper during a test (whether or not using anything), having your phone at your desk during a test if you aren't supposed to, etc. The community has decided a pretty strict honor code is appropriate and is publicly enforcing it.

There are not a lot of other discipline problems and TJ is transparent about the issues and getting more and more so. Other fcps schools are not as transparent and likely have just as many problems (in quantity) and probably just as much cheating as defined by TJ honor code - simply not reported - because there are other issues to address.




How do you know TJ is more transparent than other schools? Do you keep track of how other schools handle disciplinary issues? Do you have inside information? And, by the way, all the things you listed (sharing homework answers, looking over at another child's paper during a test whether or not you use their answers, and having your phone out when you aren't supposed to) are honor code violations at other FCPS schools, so TJ doesn't have a stricter code than other schools. Also, the issues with the kid at TJ harassing girls went on for a TWO year period and the school wasn't the one to really put the information out, it was the students. The school gave the whole "kids are entitled to an education and our hands are tied" excuse to not fully address the problem, which is one of the reason the victims decided to take matters in their own hands. I'm willing to be there are more cheaters at TJ than other schools.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 19:24     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there really businesses that sell TJ test questions? If so, that's insane!


They do. Because parents like the one on this board defending the practice will pay for them.

And understand that TJ is VERY VERY clear that getting test questions (prior year or current year) or providing test questions (ditto) is an integrity violation, unless the teacher okays it. This is not a grey area. It comes under the heading of "obtaining an unfair advantage/ aiding and abetting dishonesty" as TJ interprets it. It is defined as cheating by TJ. Again, unless the teacher or department sign off. Which is where, "ask the teacher if you have any doubt" comes in. I tell my kid to email the teacher about honor code questions, so the response is in writing and there can be no misunderstanding.

And if the parents are somehow confused on this point (they shouldn't be) their kids are not. Because they have been told repeatedly. But, many parents punish anything below an A, and push the kids to accelerate beyond what they are ready for. So kids feel like they have no choice. And parents insist their kids do this because that's what they did in India, or they don't care if it's cheating because it shouldn't be in their opinion, or Ivy League at any cost or the lazy white kids should be willing to cheat too. And if their kid is caught, they fight the kid getting a zero or getting any punishment-- like the nutty "downward spiral" mom upthread.

Which why the increasing numbers of Asian kids at TJ. upset people. Not because people care is the kids are black, brown, blue or purple. But because it makes a high pressure situation toxic. There are kids blatantly, openly, standing in the hall cheating and kids really pissed off that a subset of their peers cheat-- especially since many of the classes are curved. My kid has had lab reports stolen and kids in his class slow walk lab equipment that everyone needs to share so that some kids can't finish in time. It's creates anxiety, anger, and resentment. If TJ wants to still be viable in 5 years, they have to get serious about addressing it. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time it reaches a tipping point and a TJ diploma is worth nothing, because colleges know TJ kids are cheaters. And TJ kids come into college communities and continue this and cause problems.

It's time to start expelling kids. Parents will get the message really fast and cut it out. And I do think it is largely parent driven, not kid driven.


That's what should happen. When kids are under threat of getting expelled, both kids and parents will change their behavior. I think making TJ admission test harder is likely to remove some bad apples from getting in. I hope they do away from the arbitrary second round and stick with really hard test only for admission.


I think having admission determined by a test alone would only exacerbate the problem. At least with teacher recommendations, the committee can get some insight into what a student is like in a classroom setting.

I agree that actually expelling a few kids for cheating would get parents and kids to pay closer attention to avoiding cheating scenarios.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 19:19     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there really businesses that sell TJ test questions? If so, that's insane!


They do. Because parents like the one on this board defending the practice will pay for them.

And understand that TJ is VERY VERY clear that getting test questions (prior year or current year) or providing test questions (ditto) is an integrity violation, unless the teacher okays it. This is not a grey area. It comes under the heading of "obtaining an unfair advantage/ aiding and abetting dishonesty" as TJ interprets it. It is defined as cheating by TJ. Again, unless the teacher or department sign off. Which is where, "ask the teacher if you have any doubt" comes in. I tell my kid to email the teacher about honor code questions, so the response is in writing and there can be no misunderstanding.

And if the parents are somehow confused on this point (they shouldn't be) their kids are not. Because they have been told repeatedly. But, many parents punish anything below an A, and push the kids to accelerate beyond what they are ready for. So kids feel like they have no choice. And parents insist their kids do this because that's what they did in India, or they don't care if it's cheating because it shouldn't be in their opinion, or Ivy League at any cost or the lazy white kids should be willing to cheat too. And if their kid is caught, they fight the kid getting a zero or getting any punishment-- like the nutty "downward spiral" mom upthread.

Which why the increasing numbers of Asian kids at TJ. upset people. Not because people care is the kids are black, brown, blue or purple. But because it makes a high pressure situation toxic. There are kids blatantly, openly, standing in the hall cheating and kids really pissed off that a subset of their peers cheat-- especially since many of the classes are curved. My kid has had lab reports stolen and kids in his class slow walk lab equipment that everyone needs to share so that some kids can't finish in time. It's creates anxiety, anger, and resentment. If TJ wants to still be viable in 5 years, they have to get serious about addressing it. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time it reaches a tipping point and a TJ diploma is worth nothing, because colleges know TJ kids are cheaters. And TJ kids come into college communities and continue this and cause problems.

It's time to start expelling kids. Parents will get the message really fast and cut it out. And I do think it is largely parent driven, not kid driven.



Wow, are you serious? Is it such a competiive environment? I have been told that kids are very supportive of each other. Has your son talked to his lab teachers about not having the equipment to finish his work?


Yes. Kids are generally supportive of each other. And yes. Some kids are cutthroat in a way that shocks me. And talking to other parents, other kids have the exact same complaints as my kid. And like any school, some teachers are more responsive and on top of things than others. This year, he has a teacher who just doesn't give AF, and it's a problem. And not one with a great solution. Because it's high school, so they rightly expect him to advocate with the teacher, counselor and assistant principal, in that order, before a parent gets involved.


This is shocking, but I can see how a kid who feels pressured or feels that s/he is in over his head might give in to temptation in order to get a better grade.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 15:02     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Yes there was a student harassing others at TJ and TJ students write a thorough and compelling piece about it. One student. Not that other students can't or don't do such things - but not in any higher amount than goes on at any school -- and arguably rather less. There aren't apparent cliques at TJ. There's not a lot of bullying. There's not a team drinking culture. No one smokes pot around the fringes of the buliding.

There have been quantified honor code issues this year. These could be cheating, sharing homework answers, looking over at another student's paper during a test (whether or not using anything), having your phone at your desk during a test if you aren't supposed to, etc. The community has decided a pretty strict honor code is appropriate and is publicly enforcing it.

There are not a lot of other discipline problems and TJ is transparent about the issues and getting more and more so. Other fcps schools are not as transparent and likely have just as many problems (in quantity) and probably just as much cheating as defined by TJ honor code - simply not reported - because there are other issues to address.


Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 14:26     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there really businesses that sell TJ test questions? If so, that's insane!


They do. Because parents like the one on this board defending the practice will pay for them.

And understand that TJ is VERY VERY clear that getting test questions (prior year or current year) or providing test questions (ditto) is an integrity violation, unless the teacher okays it. This is not a grey area. It comes under the heading of "obtaining an unfair advantage/ aiding and abetting dishonesty" as TJ interprets it. It is defined as cheating by TJ. Again, unless the teacher or department sign off. Which is where, "ask the teacher if you have any doubt" comes in. I tell my kid to email the teacher about honor code questions, so the response is in writing and there can be no misunderstanding.

And if the parents are somehow confused on this point (they shouldn't be) their kids are not. Because they have been told repeatedly. But, many parents punish anything below an A, and push the kids to accelerate beyond what they are ready for. So kids feel like they have no choice. And parents insist their kids do this because that's what they did in India, or they don't care if it's cheating because it shouldn't be in their opinion, or Ivy League at any cost or the lazy white kids should be willing to cheat too. And if their kid is caught, they fight the kid getting a zero or getting any punishment-- like the nutty "downward spiral" mom upthread.

Which why the increasing numbers of Asian kids at TJ. upset people. Not because people care is the kids are black, brown, blue or purple. But because it makes a high pressure situation toxic. There are kids blatantly, openly, standing in the hall cheating and kids really pissed off that a subset of their peers cheat-- especially since many of the classes are curved. My kid has had lab reports stolen and kids in his class slow walk lab equipment that everyone needs to share so that some kids can't finish in time. It's creates anxiety, anger, and resentment. If TJ wants to still be viable in 5 years, they have to get serious about addressing it. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time it reaches a tipping point and a TJ diploma is worth nothing, because colleges know TJ kids are cheaters. And TJ kids come into college communities and continue this and cause problems.

It's time to start expelling kids. Parents will get the message really fast and cut it out. And I do think it is largely parent driven, not kid driven.


That's what should happen. When kids are under threat of getting expelled, both kids and parents will change their behavior. I think making TJ admission test harder is likely to remove some bad apples from getting in. I hope they do away from the arbitrary second round and stick with really hard test only for admission.
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 11:48     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:No - the solution is to have more collaboration between TJ and other schools, which will now start happening because the construction and labs are completed. Anyone with Middle School or High School students should check out the summer programs in STEM.


How is that going to solve the rampant cheating at TJ?
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 11:35     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No - the solution is to have more collaboration between TJ and other schools, which will now start happening because the construction and labs are completed. Anyone with Middle School or High School students should check out the summer programs in STEM.


The academic summer school at TJ is for TJ students only.


There are STEM summer programs for non TJ students.


Middle schoolers only. I'm not aware of any programs to open TJ labs to other high school students over the summer.



Go all the way to the bottom. TJ Summer Institute. Open enrollment. Very cool offerings.

https://www.tjhsst.edu/research-academics/summer-school/
Anonymous
Post 05/20/2017 11:34     Subject: TJ - which middle schools had students accepted in 2017
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No - the solution is to have more collaboration between TJ and other schools, which will now start happening because the construction and labs are completed. Anyone with Middle School or High School students should check out the summer programs in STEM.


The academic summer school at TJ is for TJ students only.


3 summer programs. The credit breaking classes are for TJ kids only. There are also academic enrichment MS and HS programs that use the TJ labs and facilities.

https://www.tjhsst.edu/research-academics/summer-school/