Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Muslim women veil for various reasons, as do nuns and Mary, and if someone wants to make an argument that this reason may be the same, then I'm sure it's possible. Let's not fake theological expertise where none exists. It's not a matter of right and wrong because religion isn't; it's either a plausible argument or a bad one. In this case, I'm sure, a plausible theory can be advanced.

This has to be one of the lamest pieces of reasoning I've read on DCUM in a while. Just because "someone wants to make an argument" is no reason for a thinking person to be "sure it's possible." For Pete's sake, the public sphere is filled with all sorts of demagogues (Trump), liars, and ignoramouses.

You also provide no reason for why you're so "sure a plausible theory can be advanced". Presumably you can't because you, like the authors of that billboard, have zero insight or knowledge about nuns and Mary.

Who can possibly have insight into anyone's innermost mind? Who can really even know if this person existed? It's all a legend anyway. People develop claims and air them. That's all there is to it. You are looking for accuracy and proof in a field where none can be had.

PS: A person aching to accuse others of ignorance would be well served by learning to spell "ignoramus" first.

Anonymous wrote:Amen to that. Sometimes I think the more rabid hijab wearers come on this forum to solicit views just for the purpose of playing gotcha so they can accuse others of violating their first amendment right to practice free expression and religion.

How fast can you say, "Microaggression!"?

Anyone has the right to wear six inch heels and I have the right to think they are foolish to do so. The first amendment protects people in their free expression, but it is totally neutral as to the value of that expression, a point hijabi wearers playing this game seem to overlook.

You get to wear what you want within limits, but you don't get to say it's immune from criticism because it is religious belief without the basis for your saying so being questioned.

And to be clear, let's not be tiresome about Americans being perverse because some have negative views about the hijab while being fine with people going around half naked--the first amendment does allow for limits based on commonly accepted standards of decency. And please don't tell me that Virginia on other states are in violation of the first amendment because they ban wearing ski masks and other face coverings like the niqab in public for security reasons. See Employment Division v. Smith.

Anonymous wrote:
Don't be ridiculous. You can't possibly know whether Mary veiled for the same reason as today's Muslim women, and I doubt you know much about nuns either. Nor do the creators of that sign. Even your own words above betray you, when you talk about how women veil for "various reasons". When you find proof positive of Mary's personal reasons for veiling 2000 years ago, then come back here and talk to us.

On the other hand, the texts of the two holy books are plain. Nobody has to fake expertise when they can simply read the texts.

You, however, seem to support fakers who claim, with no apparent first-hand knowledge or experience, to know what Mary and nuns are thinking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Muslim women veil for various reasons, as do nuns and Mary, and if someone wants to make an argument that this reason may be the same, then I'm sure it's possible. Let's not fake theological expertise where none exists. It's not a matter of right and wrong because religion isn't; it's either a plausible argument or a bad one. In this case, I'm sure, a plausible theory can be advanced.

This has to be one of the lamest pieces of reasoning I've read on DCUM in a while. Just because "someone wants to make an argument" is no reason for a thinking person to be "sure it's possible." For Pete's sake, the public sphere is filled with all sorts of demagogues (Trump), liars, and ignoramouses.

You also provide no reason for why you're so "sure a plausible theory can be advanced". Presumably you can't because you, like the authors of that billboard, have zero insight or knowledge about nuns and Mary.

Anonymous wrote:
Muslim women veil for various reasons, as do nuns and Mary, and if someone wants to make an argument that this reason may be the same, then I'm sure it's possible. Let's not fake theological expertise where none exists. It's not a matter of right and wrong because religion isn't; it's either a plausible argument or a bad one. In this case, I'm sure, a plausible theory can be advanced.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a muslim wearing the scarf, I find it extremely offending and even oppressive for someone to talk about how I should dress up/down. It's my body, my religion, and I am free to practice it. Our first amendment defends freedom of religion, and anyone who does not believe in that amendment is not worthy to be called an American.
While I don't agree with the veil because it's cultural, I have no business to tell people to not wear it. However, with that being said, women were veils need to show their face at airport security, and DMVs (which I am sure all of them do without a problem).

The PP who mentioned the message she saw on the billboard, and just assumed Muslims are trying to convert everyone to Islam is wrong. You misunderstood the message. I see nuns wearing scarves without a problem. Mary was wearing a scarf, then why is it a problem for a Muslim to wear one? It's a personal choice.

Another point, I'd like to bring to your attention is don't assume all Hijabis(women covered) or Muslims are angels. We are human beings, we have flaws, and we do err. So if you see a hijabi doing something wrong, don't generalize.

1. OP, who says she wears a scarf, asked in her first post for our opinions. That is why people are expressing their opinions. If you're offended, blame Muslim OP.

2. The discussion about whether it's a religious requirement is very germane. You seem to be arguing that non-Muslims, or even Muslims who disagree with you and don't cover, shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. But as you say, we're *all* entitled to our opinions. You can't cite the first amendment and then tell everybody else they have no right to opinions.

3. The billboard message's point was that Mary, nuns, and Muslims wear the veil *for the same reason*. That was my post, and the only words on the billboard, besides names under the pictures, were "They wear it for the same reason." That's categorically wrong. As I wrote, Muslims wear it for modesty and the Pauline passage (rejected by many Christians who don't take Paul's words as God's literal words) is about patriarchy.

4. I won't generalize about you if you won't generalize about me (western woman)! It's a deal!

Muslim women veil for various reasons, as do nuns and Mary, and if someone wants to make an argument that this reason may be the same, then I'm sure it's possible. Let's not fake theological expertise where none exists. It's not a matter of right and wrong because religion isn't; it's either a plausible argument or a bad one. In this case, I'm sure, a plausible theory can be advanced.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a muslim wearing the scarf, I find it extremely offending and even oppressive for someone to talk about how I should dress up/down. It's my body, my religion, and I am free to practice it. Our first amendment defends freedom of religion, and anyone who does not believe in that amendment is not worthy to be called an American.
While I don't agree with the veil because it's cultural, I have no business to tell people to not wear it. However, with that being said, women were veils need to show their face at airport security, and DMVs (which I am sure all of them do without a problem).

The PP who mentioned the message she saw on the billboard, and just assumed Muslims are trying to convert everyone to Islam is wrong. You misunderstood the message. I see nuns wearing scarves without a problem. Mary was wearing a scarf, then why is it a problem for a Muslim to wear one? It's a personal choice.

Another point, I'd like to bring to your attention is don't assume all Hijabis(women covered) or Muslims are angels. We are human beings, we have flaws, and we do err. So if you see a hijabi doing something wrong, don't generalize.

1. OP, who says she wears a scarf, asked in her first post for our opinions. That is why people are expressing their opinions. If you're offended, blame Muslim OP.

2. The discussion about whether it's a religious requirement is very germane. You seem to be arguing that non-Muslims, or even Muslims who disagree with you and don't cover, shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions. But as you say, we're *all* entitled to our opinions. You can't cite the first amendment and then tell everybody else they have no right to opinions.

3. The billboard message's point was that Mary, nuns, and Muslims wear the veil *for the same reason*. That was my post, and the only words on the billboard, besides names under the pictures, were "They wear it for the same reason." That's categorically wrong. As I wrote, Muslims wear it for modesty and the Pauline passage (rejected by many Christians who don't take Paul's words as God's literal words) is about patriarchy.

4. I won't generalize about you if you won't generalize about me (western woman)! It's a deal!

Anonymous wrote:As a muslim wearing the scarf, I find it extremely offending and even oppressive for someone to talk about how I should dress up/down. It's my body, my religion, and I am free to practice it. Our first amendment defends freedom of religion, and anyone who does not believe in that amendment is not worthy to be called an American.
While I don't agree with the veil because it's cultural, I have no business to tell people to not wear it. However, with that being said, women were veils need to show their face at airport security, and DMVs (which I am sure all of them do without a problem).

The PP who mentioned the message she saw on the billboard, and just assumed Muslims are trying to convert everyone to Islam is wrong. You misunderstood the message. I see nuns wearing scarves without a problem. Mary was wearing a scarf, then why is it a problem for a Muslim to wear one? It's a personal choice.

Another point, I'd like to bring to your attention is don't assume all Hijabis(women covered) or Muslims are angels. We are human beings, we have flaws, and we do err. So if you see a hijabi doing something wrong, don't generalize.

Anonymous wrote:As a muslim wearing the scarf, I find it extremely offending and even oppressive for someone to talk about how I should dress up/down. It's my body, my religion, and I am free to practice it. Our first amendment defends freedom of religion, and anyone who does not believe in that amendment is not worthy to be called an American.
While I don't agree with the veil because it's cultural, I have no business to tell people to not wear it. However, with that being said, women were veils need to show their face at airport security, and DMVs (which I am sure all of them do without a problem).

The PP who mentioned the message she saw on the billboard, and just assumed Muslims are trying to convert everyone to Islam is wrong. You misunderstood the message. I see nuns wearing scarves without a problem. Mary was wearing a scarf, then why is it a problem for a Muslim to wear one? It's a personal choice.

Another point, I'd like to bring to your attention is don't assume all Hijabis(women covered) or Muslims are angels. We are human beings, we have flaws, and we do err. So if you see a hijabi doing something wrong, don't generalize.

Anonymous wrote:As a muslim wearing the scarf, I find it extremely offending and even oppressive for someone to talk about how I should dress up/down. It's my body, my religion, and I am free to practice it. Our first amendment defends freedom of religion, and anyone who does not believe in that amendment is not worthy to be called an American.
While I don't agree with the veil because it's cultural, I have no business to tell people to not wear it. However, with that being said, women were veils need to show their face at airport security, and DMVs (which I am sure all of them do without a problem).

The PP who mentioned the message she saw on the billboard, and just assumed Muslims are trying to convert everyone to Islam is wrong. You misunderstood the message. I see nuns wearing scarves without a problem. Mary was wearing a scarf, then why is it a problem for a Muslim to wear one? It's a personal choice.

Another point, I'd like to bring to your attention is don't assume all Hijabis(women covered) or Muslims are angels. We are human beings, we have flaws, and we do err. So if you see a hijabi doing something wrong, don't generalize.

1000X this. In a weird way, this kind of hijab is a lot more like body piercings or even tattoo's (at least back in the day). It's a form of taking charge of your own identity as a rebellious socio-political statement. It has nothing to do with Islam. What's grating is that many women hide behind the facade of religion, though it obviously has nothing to do with modesty.

I'd say the same is true for niqab (worn in the US), although that's a harsher take.

There is absolutely nothing modest about covering your face in a solid black head-to-toe garb.