Anonymous wrote:I have been very disappointed in Gloria Steinem, regarding this race. She actually said that young women were supporting Sanders because that is "where the boys are." I was stunned to see a comment like that from a feminist.

I think that you yourself are greatly minimizing Clinton's contribution and influence as first lady if you can state that she was "married to a man who..." Hillary Clinton worked hard for that policy and you should at least give her credit for her hard work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I understand that gun control is an important topic but do you think you could start your own thread on this? You have posted tons of information and I, the OP, have agreed that stricter gun regulations would be a positive move for women and men. It has been covered.

No, I think Sanders' support for the gun industry and his opposition to many gun safety measures are highly relevant to this thread.

Your whole "feminist" argument against Clinton is a thinly stretched string of circumstances: Hillary was married to a man who signed legislation from Congress, which then led to certain economic effects that some people, 20 years later, have said had some negative impacts on women in various locations. With Sanders, we see his actual gun votes in Congress leading to connections to women dying in Vermont, and all over the United States. If your "evidence" is relevant to looking at Clinton, then the gun evidence is certainly relevant to looking at Sanders.

In fact, the thread's title says it's about Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton. So I think your posts about Hillary are the ones that don't belong. My posts about Sanders' poor gun record of choosing the NRA over women are much more on-topic.

Also, did anyone mention that Hillary Clinton is endorsed by the following notable women:

Lilly Ledbetter
Gloria Steinem
current and former presidents of NOW
current president of NARAL
current president of Planned Parenthood

If Bernie Sanders is the "real feminist" in this race, why aren't these other feminists supporting him?

I have been very disappointed in Gloria Steinem, regarding this race. She actually said that young women were supporting Sanders because that is "where the boys are." I was stunned to see a comment like that from a feminist.

You are entitled to your opinion that gun control is a make or break issue for a candidate. I just think there are some other issues which need to be addressed first and Sanders is a supporter of background checks and other gun regulations. The NRA gave him a D minus rating...

I think that you yourself are greatly minimizing Clinton's contribution and influence as first lady if you can state that she was "married to a man who..." Hillary Clinton worked hard for that policy and you should at least give her credit for her hard work.

Okay. So you dismissed Steinem. How about the others? You know better than them too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I understand that gun control is an important topic but do you think you could start your own thread on this? You have posted tons of information and I, the OP, have agreed that stricter gun regulations would be a positive move for women and men. It has been covered.

No, I think Sanders' support for the gun industry and his opposition to many gun safety measures are highly relevant to this thread.

Your whole "feminist" argument against Clinton is a thinly stretched string of circumstances: Hillary was married to a man who signed legislation from Congress, which then led to certain economic effects that some people, 20 years later, have said had some negative impacts on women in various locations. With Sanders, we see his actual gun votes in Congress leading to connections to women dying in Vermont, and all over the United States. If your "evidence" is relevant to looking at Clinton, then the gun evidence is certainly relevant to looking at Sanders.

In fact, the thread's title says it's about Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton. So I think your posts about Hillary are the ones that don't belong. My posts about Sanders' poor gun record of choosing the NRA over women are much more on-topic.

Also, did anyone mention that Hillary Clinton is endorsed by the following notable women:

Lilly Ledbetter
Gloria Steinem
current and former presidents of NOW
current president of NARAL
current president of Planned Parenthood

If Bernie Sanders is the "real feminist" in this race, why aren't these other feminists supporting him?

I have been very disappointed in Gloria Steinem, regarding this race. She actually said that young women were supporting Sanders because that is "where the boys are." I was stunned to see a comment like that from a feminist.

You are entitled to your opinion that gun control is a make or break issue for a candidate. I just think there are some other issues which need to be addressed first and Sanders is a supporter of background checks and other gun regulations. The NRA gave him a D minus rating...

I think that you yourself are greatly minimizing Clinton's contribution and influence as first lady if you can state that she was "married to a man who..." Hillary Clinton worked hard for that policy and you should at least give her credit for her hard work.

Anonymous wrote:

I understand that gun control is an important topic but do you think you could start your own thread on this? You have posted tons of information and I, the OP, have agreed that stricter gun regulations would be a positive move for women and men. It has been covered.

No, I think Sanders' support for the gun industry and his opposition to many gun safety measures are highly relevant to this thread.

Your whole "feminist" argument against Clinton is a thinly stretched string of circumstances: Hillary was married to a man who signed legislation from Congress, which then led to certain economic effects that some people, 20 years later, have said had some negative impacts on women in various locations. With Sanders, we see his actual gun votes in Congress leading to connections to women dying in Vermont, and all over the United States. If your "evidence" is relevant to looking at Clinton, then the gun evidence is certainly relevant to looking at Sanders.

In fact, the thread's title says it's about Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton. So I think your posts about Hillary are the ones that don't belong. My posts about Sanders' poor gun record of choosing the NRA over women are much more on-topic.

Also, did anyone mention that Hillary Clinton is endorsed by the following notable women:

Lilly Ledbetter
Gloria Steinem
current and former presidents of NOW
current president of NARAL
current president of Planned Parenthood

If Bernie Sanders is the "real feminist" in this race, why aren't these other feminists supporting him?

Anonymous wrote:

I understand that gun control is an important topic but do you think you could start your own thread on this? You have posted tons of information and I, the OP, have agreed that stricter gun regulations would be a positive move for women and men. It has been covered.

No, I think Sanders' support for the gun industry and his opposition to many gun safety measures are highly relevant to this thread.

Your whole "feminist" argument against Clinton is a thinly stretched string of circumstances: Hillary was married to a man who signed legislation from Congress, which then led to certain economic effects that some people, 20 years later, have said had some negative impacts on women in various locations. With Sanders, we see his actual gun votes in Congress leading to connections to women dying in Vermont, and all over the United States. If your "evidence" is relevant to looking at Clinton, then the gun evidence is certainly relevant to looking at Sanders.

In fact, the thread's title says it's about Bernie Sanders, not Hillary Clinton. So I think your posts about Hillary are the ones that don't belong. My posts about Sanders' poor gun record of choosing the NRA over women are much more on-topic.

Also, did anyone mention that Hillary Clinton is endorsed by the following notable women:

Lilly Ledbetter
Gloria Steinem
current and former presidents of NOW
current president of NARAL
current president of Planned Parenthood

If Bernie Sanders is the "real feminist" in this race, why aren't these other feminists supporting him?

I understand that gun control is an important topic but do you think you could start your own thread on this? You have posted tons of information and I, the OP, have agreed that stricter gun regulations would be a positive move for women and men. It has been covered.

Anonymous wrote:
False. Read his votes. He also opposes short waiting periods. He opposed the Brady Bill twice. He opposed trigger locks. He opposed liability for gun manufacturers, which might've led to safety features on guns. He voted for allowing guns in National Parks.

Anonymous wrote:It seems that among liberals, those who oppose Hillary do so because of issues while those who support her do so mainly based on liking her personally and because she's better than republicans.

Liberals who support Hillary also tend to conflate the reasons of those who oppose her from the left with the reasons of conservatives, which could not be more wrong.

Anonymous[b wrote:]You people stop it with your facts and data,[/b] Bernie is the REAL FEMINIST.

Anonymous wrote:It seems that among liberals, those who oppose Hillary do so because of issues while those who support her do so mainly based on liking her personally and because she's better than republicans.

Liberals who support Hillary also tend to conflate the reasons of those who oppose her from the left with the reasons of conservatives, which could not be more wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, okay. It's clear that OP doesn't want to discuss the issues and would rather just respond to everyone who disagrees with the exact same talking points about how "Clinton did XYZ, and it's unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever". No real need to further engage.

The one thing I will say, however, is that it's totally disingenuous to ignore gun control as a women's issue when otherwise casting such a broad net as to include NAFTA. There's a reason that one of the biggest advocacy groups for gun control is called the "Million Mom March"...gun violence/accidents both against women and against their children and partners does have significant impact on women's lives. It tears apart the communities where women are the most impoverished and vulnerable. OP, and whomever, can define feminism however they want. But a feminism that insists on viewing the TPP as a major feminist issue but ignores gun control is a bizarre one indeed.

I am not ignoring gun control. I stated quite clearly that I do not agree with Sanders on all of his gun control decisions but I also do not think it is appropriate to blame him for gun violence against women.

So, it isn't appropriate to blame Sanders for his longstanding (and politically expedient) opposition to gun control as a congressional representative and US Senator, but it's totally fine to blame Clinton for policies enacted before she held elected office?

He isn't "opposed to gun control" unless by "gun control" you actually mean "make ownership of guns illegal."

False. Read his votes. He also opposes short waiting periods. He opposed the Brady Bill twice. He opposed trigger locks. He opposed liability for gun manufacturers, which might've led to safety features on guns. He voted for allowing guns in National Parks.

The NRA helped Bernie Sanders get elected to Congress.

A few days before Election Day in 1990, the National Rifle Association sent a letter to its 12,000 members in Vermont, with an urgent message about the race for the state’s single House seat. Vote for the socialist, the gun rights group said. It’s important. “Bernie Sanders is a more honorable choice for Vermont sportsmen than ­Peter Smith,” wrote Wayne LaPierre, who was — and still is — a top official at the national NRA, backing Sanders over the Republican incumbent.

“Unlike some people, I won’t change my views on the subject,” he told one pro-gun group.

After he was elected, Sanders stuck to the assurances he had given gun rights groups. In 1991, he voted against a measure that would have required a seven-day waiting period to buy a gun. In 1993, Sanders voted against a broader version of the bill — named for James Brady, the White House press secretary who was shot in the 1981 attempt on President Ronald Reagan’s life — that became law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html

Anonymous wrote:You people stop it with your facts and data, Bernie is the REAL FEMINIST.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, okay. It's clear that OP doesn't want to discuss the issues and would rather just respond to everyone who disagrees with the exact same talking points about how "Clinton did XYZ, and it's unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever". No real need to further engage.

The one thing I will say, however, is that it's totally disingenuous to ignore gun control as a women's issue when otherwise casting such a broad net as to include NAFTA. There's a reason that one of the biggest advocacy groups for gun control is called the "Million Mom March"...gun violence/accidents both against women and against their children and partners does have significant impact on women's lives. It tears apart the communities where women are the most impoverished and vulnerable. OP, and whomever, can define feminism however they want. But a feminism that insists on viewing the TPP as a major feminist issue but ignores gun control is a bizarre one indeed.

I am not ignoring gun control. I stated quite clearly that I do not agree with Sanders on all of his gun control decisions but I also do not think it is appropriate to blame him for gun violence against women.

So, it isn't appropriate to blame Sanders for his longstanding (and politically expedient) opposition to gun control as a congressional representative and US Senator, but it's totally fine to blame Clinton for policies enacted before she held elected office?

He isn't "opposed to gun control" unless by "gun control" you actually mean "make ownership of guns illegal."

A few days before Election Day in 1990, the National Rifle Association sent a letter to its 12,000 members in Vermont, with an urgent message about the race for the state’s single House seat. Vote for the socialist, the gun rights group said. It’s important. “Bernie Sanders is a more honorable choice for Vermont sportsmen than ­Peter Smith,” wrote Wayne LaPierre, who was — and still is — a top official at the national NRA, backing Sanders over the Republican incumbent.

“Unlike some people, I won’t change my views on the subject,” he told one pro-gun group.

After he was elected, Sanders stuck to the assurances he had given gun rights groups. In 1991, he voted against a measure that would have required a seven-day waiting period to buy a gun. In 1993, Sanders voted against a broader version of the bill — named for James Brady, the White House press secretary who was shot in the 1981 attempt on President Ronald Reagan’s life — that became law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-nra-helped-put-bernie-sanders-in-congress/2015/07/19/ed1be26c-2bfe-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html