Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep it was. So why would the Clintons also honor the legacy of the Stars and Bars?

The fourth star was added to the Arkansas state flag in 1923. Were the Clintons alive then?

Anonymous wrote:Yep it was. So why would the Clintons also honor the legacy of the Stars and Bars?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Actually the US did do go to war over slaver. Read "Lies my Teacher told me." Don't rely on your recollection of your high school history book.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster who was defending the confederate flag seemed emotionally disturbed. Basically people like that are paranoid schizophrenia. That PP has probably spent YEARS "studying" his "subject" and coming up with facile responses to arguments he's heard hundreds of times. When guys like that PP get too far lost in their delusions, really bad things can happen. Fortunately most are just harmless cranks but not always. The bottom line is that flag is a deliberate racist symbol. That's what it means and it's all that it means, period. It doesn't stand for a brave and noble lost cause. It's always stood for pure stupidity. It's always stood for a horrible war for a worthless "cause"-- slavery--because southern leaders didn't care about slaves and they didn't care about their own sons, they led them to horrible slaughter against the North.

People like PP defending that flag and all those in favor of it are just doubling and tripling down in delusional stupidity. These guys aren't simply racists--they're mentally disturbed people who latch onto a racist world view to provide focus to their pre-existing mental illness. It didn't even have to be racism either. If PP had happened to latch onto something else to obsessively focus on it could have been anything like John Lennon or Jodi Foster.

Take your meds. There is not a clear link between that flag and mental illness. Are all the people in the SC legislature paranoid schizophrenics? I guess to you they are. Meds -- they do wonders.

Not only that PP, those racist South Carolinans elected a governor of Indian descent and an African American man to the Senate! And those racist Louisiana residents elected Bobby Jindal!! But no worries - a DCUMer called Scott an Uncle Tom, so he doesn't count

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Governor Nikki Haley to join "pro government busybodies":

"Gov. Nikki Haley will hold a news conference in Columbia at 4 p.m. today at which, sources said, she will call for the Confederate flag to come down from the Statehouse grounds."

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150622/PC1603/150629833

This is very good news. I'm predicting it will be gone by the end of the week.

At best it may come down sometime in 2015-2016 session, but that seems optimistic to me. The "compromise" of 2000 requires a super-majority to remove the flag.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Thank you. I love this country and its people, but when it comes to history, most Americans are absolutely delusional. They believe they live in a democracy for Pete's sake! I learned not to expect much in terms on knowledge of world history or current events

If you think it had nothing to do with slavery then you are the one who is delusional. Here for example are some key slavery-related facts and events about the escalation leading to the Civil War - and note that South Carolina features prominently at the center of it:

For example, the debates over westward expansion of slavery - with Senator John Calhoun of South Carolina arguing hard for expanding slavery westward, leading to the Compromise of 1850

Then, the Kansas-Nebraska act of 1854, which led to clashes and guerrilla warfare between abolitionists and pro-slavery forces in Kansas and adjoining areas.

In 1856, in a debate over slavery, Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner condemned slavery and was physically attacked and brutally beaten with a cane by South Carolina Senator Preston Brooks.

In 1858, a full on brawl erupted in Congress over the westward expansion of slavery, involving more than 50 representatives.

December 20, 1860, South Carolina was the first state to secede.

April 12, 1861, South Carolina becomes the first aggressor and starts the Civil War by attacking Fort Sumter.

Maybe you forgot about those little tidbits of history. I suggest you brush up.

If you think it had everything to do with slavery you would be delusional. And your list is so woefully short as to be inconsequential. The central issue had been, and still was in 1860, about states rights. Lee didn't join the Army of Virginia to fight for slavery...to fight for the Confederacy...he was fighting for Virginia. Here is some good reading into the subject of General Lee http://americancivilwar.com/authors/Joseph_Ryan/Articles/General-Lee-Slaves/General-Lee-Family-Slaves.html

In 1860 the U.S.A. would have been more appropriately called something other than United. I find it interesting that 150 years ago the northern states were more amenable to a central government's authority and the southern were not...how is it today?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Governor Nikki Haley to join "pro government busybodies":

"Gov. Nikki Haley will hold a news conference in Columbia at 4 p.m. today at which, sources said, she will call for the Confederate flag to come down from the Statehouse grounds."

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150622/PC1603/150629833

This is very good news. I'm predicting it will be gone by the end of the week.

jsteele wrote:Governor Nikki Haley to join "pro government busybodies":

"Gov. Nikki Haley will hold a news conference in Columbia at 4 p.m. today at which, sources said, she will call for the Confederate flag to come down from the Statehouse grounds."

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150622/PC1603/150629833

Anonymous wrote:

If you think it had everything to do with slavery you would be delusional. And your list is so woefully short as to be inconsequential. The central issue had been, and still was in 1860, about states rights. Lee didn't join the Army of Virginia to fight for slavery...to fight for the Confederacy...he was fighting for Virginia. Here is some good reading into the subject of General Lee http://americancivilwar.com/authors/Joseph_Ryan/Articles/General-Lee-Slaves/General-Lee-Family-Slaves.html

In 1860 the U.S.A. would have been more appropriately called something other than United. I find it interesting that 150 years ago the northern states were more amenable to a central government's authority and the southern were not...how is it today?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an immigrant and this whole rewriting of history by the winners is amazing to me. The southern states waned to be independent, just like US wanted to be independent from Britain just a hundred years prior. Americans won, so they are heroes. Southerners lost, so they are traitors, right?

And don't kid yourself - the North did not go to war to free the slaves. Lincoln did not give a flying f&#k about them. In fact, in his inaguration speech he assured the South that they would get to keep their slaves. Lincoln cared about power, and a divided America would not be as powerful, so Lincoln proceeded to burn the South to the ground to get what he wanted.

Thank you. I love this country and its people, but when it comes to history, most Americans are absolutely delusional. They believe they live in a democracy for Pete's sake! I learned not to expect much in terms on knowledge of world history or current events

If you think it had nothing to do with slavery then you are the one who is delusional. Here for example are some key slavery-related facts and events about the escalation leading to the Civil War - and note that South Carolina features prominently at the center of it:

For example, the debates over westward expansion of slavery - with Senator John Calhoun of South Carolina arguing hard for expanding slavery westward, leading to the Compromise of 1850

Then, the Kansas-Nebraska act of 1854, which led to clashes and guerrilla warfare between abolitionists and pro-slavery forces in Kansas and adjoining areas.

In 1856, in a debate over slavery, Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner condemned slavery and was physically attacked and brutally beaten with a cane by South Carolina Senator Preston Brooks.

In 1858, a full on brawl erupted in Congress over the westward expansion of slavery, involving more than 50 representatives.

December 20, 1860, South Carolina was the first state to secede.

April 12, 1861, South Carolina becomes the first aggressor and starts the Civil War by attacking Fort Sumter.

Maybe you forgot about those little tidbits of history. I suggest you brush up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That poster who was defending the confederate flag seemed emotionally disturbed. Basically people like that are paranoid schizophrenia. That PP has probably spent YEARS "studying" his "subject" and coming up with facile responses to arguments he's heard hundreds of times. When guys like that PP get too far lost in their delusions, really bad things can happen. Fortunately most are just harmless cranks but not always. The bottom line is that flag is a deliberate racist symbol. That's what it means and it's all that it means, period. It doesn't stand for a brave and noble lost cause. It's always stood for pure stupidity. It's always stood for a horrible war for a worthless "cause"-- slavery--because southern leaders didn't care about slaves and they didn't care about their own sons, they led them to horrible slaughter against the North.

People like PP defending that flag and all those in favor of it are just doubling and tripling down in delusional stupidity. These guys aren't simply racists--they're mentally disturbed people who latch onto a racist world view to provide focus to their pre-existing mental illness. It didn't even have to be racism either. If PP had happened to latch onto something else to obsessively focus on it could have been anything like John Lennon or Jodi Foster.

I'm a white Jewish girl who is also an antiques dealer. I believe history should be preserved; that we can learn so much from the past, that to destroy it or re-write it dooms us to repeat our mistakes. I feel re-writing and/or burying history, no matter how dark it might be, is a hallmark of insanity.

If you want a definition of insanity, political correctness is it.

a) your race, religion and occupation aren't germane, even if you're being truthful, which I doubt.

b) you sound like a sock puppet of the other PP. Something about your writing style.

c) since you claim your religion has some relevance, are you claiming you think it woukd be cool to fly a Nazi flag over your state capitol? How about hanging a swastika in the window of your antiques shop next to the menorah?

Try it and get.back to us

1) I am being truthful. You doubting that tells me that you don't have a leg to stand on. Who I am is very relevant because you decided that only an insane person would not see the relevance of the confederate flag. I do - from a historical standpoint.

2) I have no idea who you think I am sock puppeting. There are definitely more than one of us stating the confederate flag is relevant from a historical standpoint.

3) Why would my state capitol fly a Nazi flag when Germany was responsible for the atrocities? I am onine - so no shop. But if you are asking me if Nazi memorabilia has any historical importance, I'll say absolutely! I deal in girl-stuff, i.e. dresses, wedding accessories, and I don't think there is a market for Nazi memorabilia with my customer base. I do have friends who deal in military memorabilia, and they carry Nazi artifacts. I have no issue with that.

I am a "Jewish girl" (though I do not generally refer to myself that way) and we used to have a neighbor who flew an obscure version of the Nazi flag in front of his house. It was not a swastika but it was distinctly a Nazi flag. My father-in-law (an old German man) recognized the flag and told us what it was. He was quite disturbed to see that flag again. This was incredibly creepy. There is no way that guy had any other reason to fly that flag than to celebrate his Nazi heritage. No matter what you say, I very much doubt you would have felt good about this flag flying in your neighborhood and that is the sinister effect the Confederate flag has on a lot of anti-racist people who are Black or members of other races.

I have never, in my life, understood what the Confederate flag means to white Southern people when the rest of the world sees it only as a celebration of a racist, evil history. I understand Southern pride but there are many other ways to celebrate the good things about that heritage than by offending the rest of the world.

Feeling good or bad about something and trying to control it because of how I feel, are two different things.

No one is asking racists to stop flying the flag. That is actually a good thing because then you know who the racists are. We are asking the government to stop flying the flag. If the government chooses to fly the flag, then the rest of the nation will assume that the entire state is racist.

You know what they say about the word assume, right?

Progressives don't get to speak for 'the rest of the nation'. You understand that as well? If we constantly bowed down to progressive assumptions, we'd look like Detroit.