Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're taking into account how you'll feel after the fourth sleepless night in a row while working full time, and then coming home to two small children having temper tantrums and a messy house. THAT will be the moment when you want to first start cooking dinner? Sorry, OP, but you'll want to order take-out on those nights.

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Anonymous wrote:If you take an income of 100K the take home is 6100
If you take an income of 300K the take home is 14500

6100 X 3 = 18300

This isn't even accounting for deductions that will increase 100k take home even more.

People need to understand that double or triple the income doesn't mean anymore near that in take home

sure we understand. we just don't understand why you bitch about it so much. if its that bad - get a job making less. sound like you'd be better off.

Because we work two or three times as hard as you do, so we feel we should profit that much more.

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Anonymous wrote:
No children, no husband, no mortgage, no debt, no life experience - no opinion.

Which is okay, if the OP actually realized this. I know there will be people who take the slow lane in life and cruise around without making any net contribution to the productivity of the nation as a whole. But for one of them to turn around and stab a finger at those of us who produce the bulk of the wealth of this nation is irksome.

Anonymous wrote:And I don't find my lifestyle boring at all. Fun and happiness does not come from spending money.

Okay really, good night!

Anonymous wrote:
No children, no husband, no mortgage, no debt, no life experience - no opinion.

Anonymous wrote:I'm getting a little tired of everyone in this country, and especially this rich-people forum, complaining about how hard it is to be middle class nowadays. Yes, there are some problems - wages haven't risen with cost of living, taxes are higher, etc. But I'm a single, middle class young woman in DC, with a take home of about $2,600 a month, and I not only get by very nicely, but feel like I can live in the DC metro area in comfort and happiness and a feeling of well-being. I'm a lawyer with thankfully no debt (parents paid for my undergraduate education at a small, cheap state university, and then I went to a third tier law school at around 90% scholarship and my grandparents chipping in for the rest + living expenses). I work for a low-paying employer (trying to maintain anonymity). Here is how I cut down on my expenses and live really well:

My health, dental and vision insurance is taken care of by my employer. I live with four roommates in a lower-middle class neighborhood either on the edges of the city or in MD/VA, and my rent is around $650. I pay utilities like gas and electric and Internet splitting it up with roommates, but we do not bother with paying for cable. I instead have Netflix on my laptop, which is $8/month. My roommates and I share the Netflix account and even split that cost, so guess what I'm paying for Netflix per month? $2. And I get to stream anything and have lots of fun.

I do not own a fancy smart phone, just an HTC Evo 4G which I got for $99. My cell phone provider is not Verizon or AT&T or T-Mobile, but a tiny independent carrier called FreedomPop, where I pay a flat fee of $20 a month for unlimited talk, text and data (well until a 1GB limit, then the speed drops).

My car is a very old late-90s model (unwilling to divulge details) with plenty of miles on her but carefully tended to, tweaked and strategically upgraded over the years (new wheels, new brakes, tuning engine to get more power,etc) for less than $4,000. I save on gas by limiting my driving through combining errands, and carpool to work when I can. I also walk a lot and this way I also get my exercise. I do a LOT of walking when I can - to friends' houses, to the library, etc. Walking is also a romantic date activity for my boyfriend, in fact!

My food and medication are all generic brands, and I remain as healthy as a horse. Lots of non-organic veggies are perfectly safe to eat. I almost NEVER eat out at restaurants. That's right, never. Why spend $20 on my food and then being forced to tip on top of that? Or wasting money with to-go deli sandwiches that are overpriced and I can make at home? I take a brown bag to work. I have a coffee flask so I haven't visited a Starbucks since law school. I can buy enough food at my non-fancy grocery store, and I'm an experienced and creative enough cook, that I can make restaurant-worthy meals in my own kitchen. I buy a lot of stuff in bulk. I think the last time I went out to a restaurant was around seven months ago. And I almost never buy alcohol - it's expensive, has empty calories, bad for my health, and not something I need to have fun. However I'm happy to drink if an employer or client is paying. I do drink tons and tons of water though, which has not only changed the texture and tone of my skin but is also completely free! I don't buy soda, I don't drink much juice, and I buy very little coffee because I can get free coffee at work. I also make my own snacks and take them everywhere with me.

How do I socialize when I don't buy drink or food outside? I manage! For date nights with my boyfriend, we usually cook together and then watch a movie, either at my place or his, or we go out and do something relatively cheap or free (concerts in the park, etc). I go to bars with my friends and just drink water (I don't even want to spend $2 on a beer - you'll be shocked how quickly that adds up plus I don't like the taste of beer much). I invite friends home for a potluck dinner and cook a couple really good dishes as the hostess. My friends are misers too, so if we want to eat outside, we can always cook our own food and grab a picnic table at a public park.

There are also tons of free events around town, which I enjoy going to with a friend or a date. Even museums have free admittance days.

I also don't buy books unless I can't find them in the library and I really want them.

I take care of my clothes meticulously, and only shop at thrift stores or on sales and clearance racks at stores like Marshall's or TJ Maxx. I have rewards cards at stores like this. I also find that online stores can sell really cute clothes for very competitive prices, because they have no physical infrastructure to pay for. I buy holiday presents up to eight months in advance sometimes, meticulously searching for dirt cheap deals on items that I know my loved ones really want for birthdays or Christmas or Valentine's Day.

My holidays are always domestic and sometimes even local. I haven't gone abroad in about 5 years and I don't feel I'm missing out. I have a lot of fun with my family members, roommates, friends or co-workers, whether I'm back in my parents' house or out camping in a gorgeous park. Most recently my boyfriend and I drove down to colonial Williamsburg, which isn't far from DC and is a wonderful weekend trip for history nerds like us.

My savings, which is in the range of $1,400 per month, go into a high-interest savings account where compound interest makes sure my net worth doesn't fall behind inflation. In 2016 I'd like to move in with my boyfriend (who earns about the same as I do and is just as thrifty), but currently we're saving aggressively in our cheap living arrangements.

Eighty years ago the culture of eating out, traveling wildly, and having all kinds of unnecessary luxuries at home or in your lifestyle wasn't expected of the middle class. I think we need to change some of the expectations we have regarding what kind of lifestyle is considered "middle-class".

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if more income means you work harder per se. I'm a fed gov attorney and I presumably make a lot more than our building's cleaning people, but every time I see them, they're busy emptying trash, cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, etc. That seems like much harder work than my somewhat repetitive knowledge job that involves drafting a lot of documents on a computer.

People who make more money often had advantages when they were younger, parents who encouraged educational opportunities, or possibly just even have the drive to seek out career opportunities that pay more. I agree it's disappointing how far a supposedly high income gets you nowadays, but I would never say I work harder than cleaning people, teachers, nonprofit workers, etc. who may make less than me.

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Anonymous wrote:The OP grossly mis-characterized the complaints voiced in this forum by people with higher HHI. These people are not complaining about lack of money for food, rent, gas, or other essentials. They are saying that even with the higher income, they live a very middle class lifestyle, and certainly not luxurious as one may imagine without first hand experience. Close your eyes and imagine if you had $170k a year, $300k a year, how would you live, where would you vacation, the home you would live in, and etc. The people making these salaries have found out that the answer in all cases is "slightly better than average". When you were young, you might think that a 170k or 300k HHI means "you've made it". I know I did, and so did my wife. The reality is that people making $300k in the DC area have NOT "made it". These people have exerted great effort to improve their financial condition. They are the over-achievers in life, with purpose driven personality, and willing to put in the hard work necessary to achieve their goals. The fact that this level of income doesn't bring absolute financial security is what worries these people.

See the thing is - we wouldn't live that differently at those HHIs. Therefore we would have a lot of savings. Its the people who think they should have bigger and better who end up living paycheck to paycheck at those HHIs. And that is a choice my friend.

PP here. That's not the point. The point is, most people think with 170k or 300k HHI a year, you'll be rich or even wealthy, able to lead lavish life styles without much care for finances - financially secure, independently wealthy, etc. The reality is that 170k/300k a year gets you marginally better quality of life, but still middle class. You really can't afford that much more. This comes as a shock to most people who through hard work arrive at this income level. When one's assumptions turn out wrong, it becomes rather stressful - this is where the stress comes from. Not living paycheck to paycheck, etc.

I don't expect lavish (and frankly you should not have either). But I sure don't buy that I wouldn't be A LOT more comfortable with twice my salary. (Which would be 170k). To say you are only marginally better off is so disingenuous. Try living on my salary for a while and you'll see how well off you are.

We make around 350k and I feel we live very well. We are able to save 7k a month, pay our mortgage, max out 401ks, drive luxury carss, dine out weekly and go on two upscale vacations a year (using miles and points).

This is what I would expect on 350k. Not sure why people complain about that HHI so frequently on DCUM.

If you don't have a large inheritence or windfall, 350K HHI can easily be eaten up by a house payment, childcare and private schools (if you are in a low performing school district).

Well we live on 90k HHI - so if we stayed in our current house and current good public - 350k would be a windfall. It depends on the choices you make.

Please state the size of your home, type, childcare costs and location.

NP here also living on 90K and completely agree that $350k would be a windfall. In fact, I can't even relate to ever earning that much money. We live close-in in DC in a 120 year old row house in a hip part of DC. It's 1800 sq ft. We have a 5 year old in a charter school and a 2 year old in a full time preschool that costs $750 a month. We eat out regularly and vacation with family a couple of times a year. LIfe is good.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Congratulations, OP - I did the same a long time ago.
Now I live with DH and 2 kids in a tiny but cute little dollhouse that still cost a fortune because it's in one of the better school districts. We could afford it on our middle class salary because we had lived frugally like you and had economized and invested successfully in the stock market.

Now we still live very frugally.

Our main expenses are the mortgage and food.
Our disposable income goes to extra-curricular activities for the kids and traveling to see our families overseas.

Keep saving, OP, and make what you can of your career, because kids are expensive.

The voice of experience. It is quite doable!

I'm the PP who lived like you. When DH and I got married and had DC1, we earned 60K total gross income, and all our money went to daycare. One bedroom apartment, which we kept until DC2 was a year old.
Now our gross HHI is 120K, I stay home, and we max out retirement and college savings plus have a little left over for travel to Europe and Asia every few years. But daily, we live a frugal lifestyle which my friends cannot probably imagine. The trick is to never spend spontaneously. Everything is budgeted and planned for, and with that comes a sense of control and satisfaction. Instead of feeling submerged by expenses and jealous of what others earn, I feel empowered by the good financial choices we make and how most of our money is invested.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The OP grossly mis-characterized the complaints voiced in this forum by people with higher HHI. These people are not complaining about lack of money for food, rent, gas, or other essentials. They are saying that even with the higher income, they live a very middle class lifestyle, and certainly not luxurious as one may imagine without first hand experience. Close your eyes and imagine if you had $170k a year, $300k a year, how would you live, where would you vacation, the home you would live in, and etc. The people making these salaries have found out that the answer in all cases is "slightly better than average". When you were young, you might think that a 170k or 300k HHI means "you've made it". I know I did, and so did my wife. The reality is that people making $300k in the DC area have NOT "made it". These people have exerted great effort to improve their financial condition. They are the over-achievers in life, with purpose driven personality, and willing to put in the hard work necessary to achieve their goals. The fact that this level of income doesn't bring absolute financial security is what worries these people.

See the thing is - we wouldn't live that differently at those HHIs. Therefore we would have a lot of savings. Its the people who think they should have bigger and better who end up living paycheck to paycheck at those HHIs. And that is a choice my friend.

PP here. That's not the point. The point is, most people think with 170k or 300k HHI a year, you'll be rich or even wealthy, able to lead lavish life styles without much care for finances - financially secure, independently wealthy, etc. The reality is that 170k/300k a year gets you marginally better quality of life, but still middle class. You really can't afford that much more. This comes as a shock to most people who through hard work arrive at this income level. When one's assumptions turn out wrong, it becomes rather stressful - this is where the stress comes from. Not living paycheck to paycheck, etc.

I don't expect lavish (and frankly you should not have either). But I sure don't buy that I wouldn't be A LOT more comfortable with twice my salary. (Which would be 170k). To say you are only marginally better off is so disingenuous. Try living on my salary for a while and you'll see how well off you are.

We make around 350k and I feel we live very well. We are able to save 7k a month, pay our mortgage, max out 401ks, drive luxury carss, dine out weekly and go on two upscale vacations a year (using miles and points).

This is what I would expect on 350k. Not sure why people complain about that HHI so frequently on DCUM.

If you don't have a large inheritence or windfall, 350K HHI can easily be eaten up by a house payment, childcare and private schools (if you are in a low performing school district).

Well we live on 90k HHI - so if we stayed in our current house and current good public - 350k would be a windfall. It depends on the choices you make.

Please state the size of your home, type, childcare costs and location.

NP here also living on 90K and completely agree that $350k would be a windfall. In fact, I can't even relate to ever earning that much money. We live close-in in DC in a 120 year old row house in a hip part of DC. It's 1800 sq ft. We have a 5 year old in a charter school and a 2 year old in a full time preschool that costs $750 a month. We eat out regularly and vacation with family a couple of times a year. LIfe is good.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The OP grossly mis-characterized the complaints voiced in this forum by people with higher HHI. These people are not complaining about lack of money for food, rent, gas, or other essentials. They are saying that even with the higher income, they live a very middle class lifestyle, and certainly not luxurious as one may imagine without first hand experience. Close your eyes and imagine if you had $170k a year, $300k a year, how would you live, where would you vacation, the home you would live in, and etc. The people making these salaries have found out that the answer in all cases is "slightly better than average". When you were young, you might think that a 170k or 300k HHI means "you've made it". I know I did, and so did my wife. The reality is that people making $300k in the DC area have NOT "made it". These people have exerted great effort to improve their financial condition. They are the over-achievers in life, with purpose driven personality, and willing to put in the hard work necessary to achieve their goals. The fact that this level of income doesn't bring absolute financial security is what worries these people.

See the thing is - we wouldn't live that differently at those HHIs. Therefore we would have a lot of savings. Its the people who think they should have bigger and better who end up living paycheck to paycheck at those HHIs. And that is a choice my friend.

PP here. That's not the point. The point is, most people think with 170k or 300k HHI a year, you'll be rich or even wealthy, able to lead lavish life styles without much care for finances - financially secure, independently wealthy, etc. The reality is that 170k/300k a year gets you marginally better quality of life, but still middle class. You really can't afford that much more. This comes as a shock to most people who through hard work arrive at this income level. When one's assumptions turn out wrong, it becomes rather stressful - this is where the stress comes from. Not living paycheck to paycheck, etc.

I don't expect lavish (and frankly you should not have either). But I sure don't buy that I wouldn't be A LOT more comfortable with twice my salary. (Which would be 170k). To say you are only marginally better off is so disingenuous. Try living on my salary for a while and you'll see how well off you are.

We make around 350k and I feel we live very well. We are able to save 7k a month, pay our mortgage, max out 401ks, drive luxury carss, dine out weekly and go on two upscale vacations a year (using miles and points).

This is what I would expect on 350k. Not sure why people complain about that HHI so frequently on DCUM.

If you don't have a large inheritence or windfall, 350K HHI can easily be eaten up by a house payment, childcare and private schools (if you are in a low performing school district).

Well we live on 90k HHI - so if we stayed in our current house and current good public - 350k would be a windfall. It depends on the choices you make.

Please state the size of your home, type, childcare costs and location.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if more income means you work harder per se. I'm a fed gov attorney and I presumably make a lot more than our building's cleaning people, but every time I see them, they're busy emptying trash, cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, etc. That seems like much harder work than my somewhat repetitive knowledge job that involves drafting a lot of documents on a computer.

People who make more money often had advantages when they were younger, parents who encouraged educational opportunities, or possibly just even have the drive to seek out career opportunities that pay more. I agree it's disappointing how far a supposedly high income gets you nowadays, but I would never say I work harder than cleaning people, teachers, nonprofit workers, etc. who may make less than me.