Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Then no need for a "gifted" program or AAP, which was only allowed to serve special needs of the truly gifted.

Putting everyone back in their base schools and letting the teachers decide at which level they should be taught is the best way to handle things anyway.

Anonymous wrote:In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

In an egalitarian system one gives everyone access to knowledge and the means of gaining such--no mumbo jumbo. Then let the Bell shape curve fall where it may if you decide to test them. A very simple solution. One that Peyton and Phelps (or any high performing musician or artist) understands well. All this nonsense about giftedness, measuring "raw" intelligence, IQ, measuring "something" is simply --- pure nonsense.

Here's what FCPS says about this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

Other schools are simply dropping the use of these scores because they have become useless due to extensive prepping. I would not be surprised if FCPS follows suit.

Anonymous wrote:

wel FCPS has never said this so you are just making it up. Unless you speak for them...?

Here's what FCPS says about this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."
Other schools are simply dropping the use of these scores because they have become useless due to extensive prepping. I would not be surprised if FCPS follows suit.

Special ones that highly gifted kids who learn differently often have. Like an inability to complete rote work, need to be challenged in other ways. It can be difficult to recognize if you've never met this kind of kid.

wel FCPS has never said this so you are just making it up. Unless you speak for them...?

Anonymous wrote:prepping invadiates the results on a test to measure raw intelligence. You are either denser than a blackhold, a troll, or a sock puppet trying to drum up customers for your test prep business.

CogAT is a measure. Prepping may increase the score, but it does not increase the raw intelligence.

Special ones that highly gifted kids who learn differently often have. Like an inability to complete rote work, need to be challenged in other ways. It can be difficult to recognize if you've never met this kind of kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, at least one has a misunderstanding about this, or simply pretends to misunderstand. No one suggests that anything is wrong with hard work and preparation.
People are suggesting that it is inappropriate for people to "prep" kids by using materials that attempt to recreate the AAP identification tests. Prepping kids in this way makes the scores unreliable to the point that some schools are simply not using them anymore. These particular tests are not meant to be prepped for and prepping results in scores that are not useful to the schools.

These threads are only about prepping for the AAP identification tests. They are not about prepping for any other type of testing, nor are they about effective ways to teach math.

More nuaunced malarky. Now we have to have the identification committees throughout the land adjudicate the legality or ethics of preparation on the basis of an identification test. Will this be at the federal level or shall will let each state do their own thing?

What rubbish.

No rubbish, and no malarky. If you read the the OP for most of these threads, they involve the AAP identification testing. Not even terribly nuanced, just fact.

Right, and here's what FCPS says about this:

Here's a link to a FCPS document that includes an explanation of why the test was changed last year:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

See fourth paragraph, first sentence:

"FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No you don't get it. Since you are so fascinated with the older Manning child, let me give an analogy using Peyton.

We want to know how far Peyton can throw the ball....How far the ball goes will be a function of the throw and the wind. If he throws 50 times in a closed stadium, the results will be meaningful. In a Hurricane, he may be able to throw the ball 100 yards down wind, or 10 yard up wind. In the storm, I could throw the ball 80 yards down wind. But inside, Peyton can throw the ball 60 years. That does not make me the better QB. The wind adds noise to the measurement. It reflects the reliability of the measurement.

Similarly, test prep for the AAP entrance exam by obtaining "the exact form of the test" by any means will severely impact the ability to measure the intelligence out of the test. Just like me throwing the football in a hurricane. I can not know how far I threw the ball, and the county can not know how much of the score was from intelligence, and how much is from prepping. (and how much was from ADD, distractions, puppies, etc). What the county is trying to measure is raw capability, not work ethic. They get that in the GBRS. And a high score on the CogAT does not make your kid smarted. It will not lead to more money. How will the county deal with this? The will ignore test scores. They will have no choice. Oh, and the county is the source on appropriate behavior in a county administered exam.

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Sounds like an excuse made by those who cannot compete on the football field, the swimming pool or the classroom. Those like Peyton, Phelps and and other high performers who work hard and prep have heard it for decades. Potential in the womb gets you no where (unless mommy and daddy have connections and generational trust funds). Even someone like Peyton understands this. That's why he preps and works hard. If one as "gifted" as Peyton and Phelps, by the poster's unabashed admission, understand this do you think these guys would not prep and work hard if their gifts were for music or math.

Excuses made by retiring flunkies signifying nothing and who fear discipline in their lives.

If your kids want to be like Peyton they WILL prepare and work hard just like high performing academicians. This has nothing to do with theft, cheating or genes. It's called discipline.

Prep is paramount in Peyton's Place. Try it, you'll be better off for it no matter your bloody IQ or how much you bench press! I am surprised FCPS doesn't know this and preach this to its all its citizens. But, don't forget to get a good night's sleep and eat hearty green ham and eggs in the morning. Peyton does so.

You are a troll. Please leave. You do not read the posts. You just say prep. No one is saying children should not prepare for life. But, we are talking about one or two specific tests that are trying to measure intelligence where the specific act of drill and practice with old tests (i.e., cheating, often called prep here) take away the ability to measure. The concern with FCPS is that from 2009-2012, the size of the AAP pool increased 50%. They think it was from people gaming/prepping. It is cheating.

My DD spends 12 hrs per day preparing for her future by school, homework, sports, and activities. That is prep. She spend some time being quizzed on vocabulary, which helps on the test. does not know which words will be on the test, so she studies all of them. That is prep, and it is encouraged.

CogAT is an attempt to measure something. Prepping invalidates the measurement. It is that simple.