DCUM Forum

Anonymous

07/06/2013 14:05 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Local religious leaders in Africa are actually working with humanitarian leaders to spread the word that female circumcision in NOT a part of the Islamic religion. Please educate yourself before you try to educate others. You are spreading incorrect information.

ACTUALLY, "what a few Muslims in Africa believe" does not equal "what Islam prescribes", otherwise these religious leaders would be working to spread the word everywhere, not just in Africa. If Islam prescribed female circumcision, what is your theory on why Muslims elsewhere don't do it?

If you have scriptural proof that Islam prescribes female circumcision, please post quotation. Learn to read an argument thoroughly before you critique it.

Let's break it down again.

Lady, did you even read what I wrote? I was supporting what PP was saying about female circumcison NOT being a part of Islam. The poster she quoted posted incorrect information that it was.

There are tribes in Africa under the notion that it is a part of their religion and humanitarian workers are working with local religious leaders to spread the word that it is not. They are having success in stopping female circumcision because of it.

I apologize. When I read "you're spreading incorrect information", I thought you were referring to my comment directly above. It seems we are saying the same thing.

Praise be to Allaah.
We do not know of any hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ordered that his wives or daughters be circumcised, but it is narrated that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) advised a woman who did circumcision in Madeenah as to the proper way of circumcision. It was narrated by Abu Dawood (5271), al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, and al-Bayhaqi in al-Shu’ab from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcision in Madeenah, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.” This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

According to another report: “Take only a little and do not go to extremes.”

It is also indicated by the general meaning of the evidence that has been narrated concerning circumcision, such as the hadeeth in al-Bukhaari (5891) and Muslim (527) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him): I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and plucking the armpit hairs.”

In Saheeh Muslim (349) it is narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”

According to a report narrated by al-Tirmidhi (109) and elsewhere: “When the two circumcised parts meet…”

Al-Bukhaari used this phrase as a chapter heading.

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: What is meant by this metaphor is the circumcised parts of the man and the woman.

Female circumcision is done by cutting a small part of the skin that looks like a rooster’s comb, above the exit of the urethra. The Sunnah is not to cut all of it, but rather a part of it. Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (19/28).

The Shaafa’is, the Hanbalis according to the well-known view of their madhhab, and others are of the view that circumcising women is obligatory. Many scholars are of the view that it is not obligatory in the case of women; rather it is Sunnah and is an honour for them.

But we would like to point out here that it has medical benefits to which attention should be paid, regardless of the difference of opinion among the scholars as to whether it is obligatory or mustahabb. This has been discussed in the answer to question no. 45528.

And Allaah knows best.

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/82859/circumcision

I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word "scriptural". I'll make it easy for you:

In the Quran=scriptural
Not in the Quran=not scriptural

Anonymous

07/06/2013 13:59 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doubts that there is an anti-Semitic undercurrent in some (not all!) anti-circ sentiment might take a look at following (appalling) links. I am not Jewish myself, nor am I saying that being anti-circ makes you anti-Semitic. I *am* saying that those who detect a strain of anti-semitism in some of this debate are not making things up:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/foreskin-man-comic-latest-anti-circumcision-groups-push/storynew?id=14045258#.Udb-_jnRmfQ

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/anti-semitism-and-germanys-movement-against-circumcision/266794/

This must be one of the worst articles I have read in the Atlantic. There is no convincing case for the German stance against circumcision being motivated by anti-Semitism, and the author (who isn't even religious but actually says he wants his son to look like him) is only voicing his paranoid feelings. If anything, there may be an element of anti-Muslim sentiment in the German efforts to outlaw circumcision. Aside from a few fringe groups (which also exist in most other countries), Germany today is the least anti-Semitic country in the world.

WTF? there are no/very few Jews in Germany because of the Holocaust. That brings anti-Semite to a new level.

You're an idiot. The PP wrote "Germany today", not 70 years ago.

Why, thank you and bless your heart! This is the country that just outlawed circumcism: anti Jewish at all Germany?

As PP said, they didn't outlaw it, you are misinformed. And frankly, the only reason they didn't is because they were afraid to be cast as anti-Jewish, even if that was not at all the drive behind the legal motion.

Anonymous

07/06/2013 13:56 Subject: Re:Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:Uh, I know my words, but since you don't, here's a definition. (And yes, mutilator is a noun, not an adjective. Yeesh!)

World English Dictionary
mutilate (?mju?t??le?t)

— vb
1. to deprive of a limb, essential part, etc; maim; dismember
2. to mar, expurgate, or damage (a text, book, etc)

[C16: from Latin mutil?re to cut off; related to mutilus maimed]

muti'lation

— n

'mutilative

— adj

'mutilator

— n

Clearly this is a loaded term that doesn't remotely describe circumcision, a simple medical procedure practiced for tens of thousands of years before the drama mamas got involved.

Tens of thousands of years? You have evidence regarding prehistoric times?

Anonymous

07/06/2013 13:22 Subject: Re:Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Uh, I know my words, but since you don't, here's a definition. (And yes, mutilator is a noun, not an adjective. Yeesh!)

World English Dictionary
mutilate (?mju?t??le?t)

— vb
1. to deprive of a limb, essential part, etc; maim; dismember
2. to mar, expurgate, or damage (a text, book, etc)

[C16: from Latin mutil?re to cut off; related to mutilus maimed]

muti'lation

— n

'mutilative

— adj

'mutilator

— n

Clearly this is a loaded term that doesn't remotely describe circumcision, a simple medical procedure practiced for tens of thousands of years before the drama mamas got involved.

Anonymous

07/06/2013 13:01 Subject: Re:Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and don't forget "mutilator'!

The majority of Americans still circumcise. The rates in my neck of the woods are about 85 percent.

Mutilator is not an insult. It is an adjective describing to mutilate. If you don't have a dictionary, I'm sure you can find an online definition.

It's a noun.

Anonymous

07/06/2013 12:56 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doubts that there is an anti-Semitic undercurrent in some (not all!) anti-circ sentiment might take a look at following (appalling) links. I am not Jewish myself, nor am I saying that being anti-circ makes you anti-Semitic. I *am* saying that those who detect a strain of anti-semitism in some of this debate are not making things up:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/foreskin-man-comic-latest-anti-circumcision-groups-push/storynew?id=14045258#.Udb-_jnRmfQ

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/anti-semitism-and-germanys-movement-against-circumcision/266794/

This must be one of the worst articles I have read in the Atlantic. There is no convincing case for the German stance against circumcision being motivated by anti-Semitism, and the author (who isn't even religious but actually says he wants his son to look like him) is only voicing his paranoid feelings. If anything, there may be an element of anti-Muslim sentiment in the German efforts to outlaw circumcision. Aside from a few fringe groups (which also exist in most other countries), Germany today is the least anti-Semitic country in the world.

WTF? there are no/very few Jews in Germany because of the Holocaust. That brings anti-Semite to a new level.

You're an idiot. The PP wrote "Germany today", not 70 years ago.

Why, thank you and bless your heart! This is the country that just outlawed circumcism: anti Jewish at all Germany?

Please do your research: http://www.dw.de/circumcision-remains-legal-in-germany/a-16399336
In any case, I would have supported the ban but not because I might be some raging anti Semite, but because it's a barbaric practice no matter who does it.

Anonymous

07/06/2013 12:46 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doubts that there is an anti-Semitic undercurrent in some (not all!) anti-circ sentiment might take a look at following (appalling) links. I am not Jewish myself, nor am I saying that being anti-circ makes you anti-Semitic. I *am* saying that those who detect a strain of anti-semitism in some of this debate are not making things up:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/foreskin-man-comic-latest-anti-circumcision-groups-push/storynew?id=14045258#.Udb-_jnRmfQ

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/anti-semitism-and-germanys-movement-against-circumcision/266794/

This must be one of the worst articles I have read in the Atlantic. There is no convincing case for the German stance against circumcision being motivated by anti-Semitism, and the author (who isn't even religious but actually says he wants his son to look like him) is only voicing his paranoid feelings. If anything, there may be an element of anti-Muslim sentiment in the German efforts to outlaw circumcision. Aside from a few fringe groups (which also exist in most other countries), Germany today is the least anti-Semitic country in the world.

WTF? there are no/very few Jews in Germany because of the Holocaust. That brings anti-Semite to a new level.

You're an idiot. The PP wrote "Germany today", not 70 years ago.

Why, thank you and bless your heart! This is the country that just outlawed circumcism: anti Jewish at all Germany?

Anonymous

07/06/2013 12:45 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't we have millions of men running around now who are extremely scarred? It is interesting that rarely do fathers get so very hysterical about this issue, but the mother sure do! Quite odd to be that obsessed with your child's and other children's genitalia.

This is what I think every time I see one of these threads. Considering the vast majority of grown men...even teens...have been circd in this society, you would think there would be very known epidemic problems based in what the anti-circ team is saying. I have yet to hear of one grown man express any trauma over their circumcisions.

No one is saying that millions experience long term trauma. They are saying that they have been scarred and that part of their penis has been removed for cosmetic reasons and that it is not justifiable to put a newborn baby who is unable to consent through this process. Many men express regret that this was done to them and that number will only increase as the procedure becomes less common and as your children become the unusual ones (just like in the rest of the world).

This is primarily a women's board, that is why the majority of people posting here are women.

Just wondering, are you extremely religious?

I'm not religious at all. What does that have to do with my post?

Anonymous

07/06/2013 12:31 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doubts that there is an anti-Semitic undercurrent in some (not all!) anti-circ sentiment might take a look at following (appalling) links. I am not Jewish myself, nor am I saying that being anti-circ makes you anti-Semitic. I *am* saying that those who detect a strain of anti-semitism in some of this debate are not making things up:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/foreskin-man-comic-latest-anti-circumcision-groups-push/storynew?id=14045258#.Udb-_jnRmfQ

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/anti-semitism-and-germanys-movement-against-circumcision/266794/

This must be one of the worst articles I have read in the Atlantic. There is no convincing case for the German stance against circumcision being motivated by anti-Semitism, and the author (who isn't even religious but actually says he wants his son to look like him) is only voicing his paranoid feelings. If anything, there may be an element of anti-Muslim sentiment in the German efforts to outlaw circumcision. Aside from a few fringe groups (which also exist in most other countries), Germany today is the least anti-Semitic country in the world.

WTF? there are no/very few Jews in Germany because of the Holocaust. That brings anti-Semite to a new level.

You're an idiot. The PP wrote "Germany today", not 70 years ago.

Anonymous

07/06/2013 11:45 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't we have millions of men running around now who are extremely scarred? It is interesting that rarely do fathers get so very hysterical about this issue, but the mother sure do! Quite odd to be that obsessed with your child's and other children's genitalia.

This is what I think every time I see one of these threads. Considering the vast majority of grown men...even teens...have been circd in this society, you would think there would be very known epidemic problems based in what the anti-circ team is saying. I have yet to hear of one grown man express any trauma over their circumcisions.

No one is saying that millions experience long term trauma. They are saying that they have been scarred and that part of their penis has been removed for cosmetic reasons and that it is not justifiable to put a newborn baby who is unable to consent through this process. Many men express regret that this was done to them and that number will only increase as the procedure becomes less common and as your children become the unusual ones (just like in the rest of the world).

This is primarily a women's board, that is why the majority of people posting here are women.

Just wondering, are you extremely religious?

Anonymous

07/06/2013 11:23 Subject: Why do you care what I decide to do to my son's penis when he is born?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Local religious leaders in Africa are actually working with humanitarian leaders to spread the word that female circumcision in NOT a part of the Islamic religion. Please educate yourself before you try to educate others. You are spreading incorrect information.

ACTUALLY, "what a few Muslims in Africa believe" does not equal "what Islam prescribes", otherwise these religious leaders would be working to spread the word everywhere, not just in Africa. If Islam prescribed female circumcision, what is your theory on why Muslims elsewhere don't do it?

If you have scriptural proof that Islam prescribes female circumcision, please post quotation. Learn to read an argument thoroughly before you critique it.

Let's break it down again.

Lady, did you even read what I wrote? I was supporting what PP was saying about female circumcison NOT being a part of Islam. The poster she quoted posted incorrect information that it was.

There are tribes in Africa under the notion that it is a part of their religion and humanitarian workers are working with local religious leaders to spread the word that it is not. They are having success in stopping female circumcision because of it.

I apologize. When I read "you're spreading incorrect information", I thought you were referring to my comment directly above. It seems we are saying the same thing.