Your poor children.

Anonymous wrote:The horse is dead. Stop beating it. Leave this thread be....

so we're all agreed then, prepping is perfectly acceptable?

The reality is that there are businesses that make money providing test prep. They would like to start working with their customers at an early age, so they would like parents to send their first and second graders to prep for the ability tests that are only a part of the AAP selection process. And some children will do better on these tests because they have practiced and practiced questions ahead of time that they were supposed to see for the first time on test day.
But the teachers still fill out the GBRS so that the committee will get a view of how the child behaves in the classroom on a day to day basis. Yes, some borderline students will be in the program who would be fine in a regular classroom, but overall, I don't think test prep will boost an average child's score to the highly or profoundly gifted level. I do think that those who make money selling test prep would like you to think it can make an average child a genius.

(Eventually these children will realize that their parents were encouraging them to do something the schools had asked them not to do. That realization will have some affect on the child's developing sense of integrity and honesty.)

This is America, the land of the free and free enterprise. What do you have against businesses making money providing test prep? There are businesses in America BIG money off sex, alcohol, guns and tobacco. These businesses, too, start working with their customers at an early age. All above board, legal and good for your economy.

Fault the schools for the bureaucratic leaders for the emergence of tracking (prison sentence for young and developing students) tests.

And the GODS fill out GBRS forms that tell the rea truth. Alice do you really think teachers are gods and are not susceptible to ass kissing and preconceived notions, not to mention gifts (bribes) howered to them from parents like yourself. I'm sure you never have experienced a teacher like this.

Kids study hard, work hard, prepare and take as many practise tests and exercises as your heart delights. Alice in Wonderland is on drugs.

The reality is that there are businesses that make money providing test prep. They would like to start working with their customers at an early age, so they would like parents to send their first and second graders to prep for the ability tests that are only a part of the AAP selection process. And some children will do better on these tests because they have practiced and practiced questions ahead of time that they were supposed to see for the first time on test day.
But the teachers still fill out the GBRS so that the committee will get a view of how the child behaves in the classroom on a day to day basis. Yes, some borderline students will be in the program who would be fine in a regular classroom, but overall, I don't think test prep will boost an average child's score to the highly or profoundly gifted level. I do think that those who make money selling test prep would like you to think it can make an average child a genius.

(Eventually these children will realize that their parents were encouraging them to do something the schools had asked them not to do. That realization will have some affect on the child's developing sense of integrity and honesty.)

It is just so unfair that those scamming, cheating, zealous parents also practice with the whopping 100 or so questions in the Mercer book instead of just the 5 questions generoulsy granted to each student by FCPS (well, at my childs school I think that they practiced with 10 questions or 20 or even more...). The epic unfairness of it all is just staggering. Someone needs to do something to stop the madness of it all.

If it's too hot in the kitchen simply get out of the kitchen. Some kids simply can't hack it, like their parents. Stop making excuses. Go back to the TV and spend your hours scamming and cheating in club sports with your coaches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ITA with pp.

I do, too--I argued the same point many times in this thread--but it's obvious that a fair playing field means absolutely nothing to some of these parents.

That's because so much of this is about parent ego not bright children or parents being afraid that other kids will get more if the other kids are in AAP and their child is not.

It has nothing to do with a parent's ego. That is nonsense. It has to do with a parent wanting his DC to get the best opportunity and be in the best educational track for the child's sake. There are many kids that can comfortably handle the program, few are flunking out. It is advanced academics and once in, the benefits cannot be taken away. Opportunity creates new opportunity.

OK, but if AAP is that much better, why don't we expand those benefits to all students rather than shoving kids who aren't really appropriate for the program into it. What's happening is that AAP is getting watered down and the kids that really need it (the PG kids) don't get a real benefit anymore. By way of full disclosure, I have a child in AAP (and one who isn't). My AAP child is a "marginal" AAP kid FSIQ 129) and does fine in AAP, but could probably have been served in Gen Ed if Gen Ed emphasized critical thinking skills and used teaching methods other than memorizing and test taking.

The horse is dead. Stop beating it. Leave this thread be....

You all are miserable people.

They use the test to differentiate. Not all children have over zealous parents obsessed with their children getting into AAP (not saying you all are, but hey we know there are some insecure crazies out there). The idea is that all children practice the same 5 questions before the test and then all see the other test questions with fresh eyes, that is a fair playing field for all the children. If some of the children have seen extremely similar questions time after time they will know the answer without having to sit there and actually reason it out.

It is just so unfair that those scamming, cheating, zealous parents also practice with the whopping 100 or so questions in the Mercer book instead of just the 5 questions generoulsy granted to each student by FCPS (well, at my childs school I think that they practiced with 10 questions or 20 or even more...). The epic unfairness of it all is just staggering. Someone needs to do something to stop the madness of it all.

Anonymous wrote:The CoGAT is not meant to be of a high difficulty level since it is not a test of subject matter. It is a measure of learning abilities and it is meant to give guidance to teachers on the best learning environments for students. Kicking up the difficulty level on this test that second graders take would not be useful. The goal is to place students in the classroom situation that best fits their needs.

I agree and also disagree. Yes cogat is created to guide teachers in placing the kids. But in Fairfax county, we use the test to differentiate the kids. To fulfill the purpose of differentiation, the right difficulty level is needed. Currently the test is too easy. If Fairfax does not want to write up new questions, the easy way is to replace half of the cogat questions with cogat questions for third graders. That will increase the difficulty level so prep will not work.

The CoGAT is not meant to be of a high difficulty level since it is not a test of subject matter. It is a measure of learning abilities and it is meant to give guidance to teachers on the best learning environments for students. Kicking up the difficulty level on this test that second graders take would not be useful. The goal is to place students in the classroom situation that best fits their needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ITA with pp.

I do, too--I argued the same point many times in this thread--but it's obvious that a fair playing field means absolutely nothing to some of these parents.

That's because so much of this is about parent ego not bright children or parents being afraid that other kids will get more if the other kids are in AAP and their child is not.

It has nothing to do with a parent's ego. That is nonsense. It has to do with a parent wanting his DC to get the best opportunity and be in the best educational track for the child's sake. There are many kids that can comfortably handle the program, few are flunking out. It is advanced academics and once in, the benefits cannot be taken away. Opportunity creates new opportunity.

If more difficult questions are included, the test preparation will not work. Most 7-8 year old kids will not have the abstract reasoning skill to solve them, even with teaching. But the trully advanced, who suppose to be 2-4 years above age level, as defined, will be able to.

That's the problem the bureaucrats, pseudo educational experts, do not have a glue what the results of the tests in question mean or measure. Afterall, isn't the goal to identify the trully advanced students and not the pseudo-advanced students. When more than 1/2 of the County is only pseudo-advanced than you run into the problems they are faced with...parents who think their kids are gifted and trully advanced.

A prohibition on prep or practising the questions has absolutely nothing to do with which kids are trully advanced. And housewifes and husbands crying about unfair advantages kids gain from hardwork, studying, and preparation is a red herring. The County is finding this out the hard way.

A lot of insecure parents who feel that if a kid is going to sit for a multiple choice exam and the same kids practise on multiple choice sample questions they have an unfair advantage. Insecurity galore.
If the same kid sits for an exam requiring an essay response to a prompt and they practised writing essays at home to made up prompts...this to is an unfair advantage. Boy oh boy.
How do you plan to prevent children from possible exposure to form, format and similar content given the ubiquity of information and data (e.g., schools, summer camps, tutors, educational programs on TV, online classes, conversation with educated surrounds) in the 21st century home and neighborhood?

The solution is quite simple. Jack up the difficulty of the test. Quick and easily done. We do not need laypeople discussions about what the definition of preparation, prep, studying, worksheets, commercial products, non-profit educational products, form, format, tutors (paid and non-paid). We do not need comments from folk who believe the field is level when SES differentiates which kids get the best schools, teachers, education, tutors, books, and exposure to the type of subject matter precisely examined by the very tests they claim level the playing field.

Make the test tough. Enough of the everyone on these boards talking about their 99.9 percent kid. Make it damn near impossible to get 99.9 % or mastery of the test...then and only then you may have a real test.

When I was in school (British system) it was rare to get scores over 50%. Those kids were head and shoulders (in intelligence) over the crowd I supervise here claiming giftedness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ITA with pp.

I do, too--I argued the same point many times in this thread--but it's obvious that a fair playing field means absolutely nothing to some of these parents.

That's because so much of this is about parent ego not bright children or parents being afraid that other kids will get more if the other kids are in AAP and their child is not.