Don't laugh but another underrated gem is Des Moines, Iowa. With all the insurance companies and other corporations there, lot of professional people. Iowa City is like a mini Ann Arbor.

Anonymous wrote:17:53 hit the nail on the head:

We are not saying there are not educated, creative, thoughtful individuals almost, well, anywhere. We are saying, do you want to be a big fish (one of these individuals) in a small pond (of lots of other individuals not like this), or do you want to be one of a lot of well-educated, creative, thoughtful, individuals? The latter may give you a come-uppance; you won't be a big fish in a small pond, but you'll be swimming amongst a lot of other like-minded individuals, and, in my personal opinion, everyone will be the better for it. You will rub elbows with other educated, creative individuals; there will be a tipping point, a recognized majority, of educated, liberal-minded (and I am not speaking politically), open-minded, individuals; community and local political decisions will be made by and influenced by and based upon these individuals. You will not be who you are IN SPITE OF where you are from; you will be who you are BECAUSE OF everyone else amongst whom you live. It is a synergy.

I guess I wonder just where that tipping point is. If you work, socialize, and are politically involved with people who are interesting/stimulating - in your small city - what do you gain in the larger city? I'll be lucky to meet a fiftieth of them, and so far, I have yet to see the end of the interesting work going on around me. My experience has been that people work less, socialize more (and more broadly), and have more time to branch out here, so the quality of relationship has been higher than I remember having in DC. Admittedly, it's hard to compare life stages, but still - it's not hard to find a challenge here.

Most homeowners in the DC area got in the market before housing went up absurdly. It will be interesting to see what happens in 10-15 years when lots of the baby boomers sell. There just won't be enough people with the $$$ to buy. Makes me think I will be stuck in my next home purchase for a very, very long time.

17:53 hit the nail on the head:

We are not saying there are not educated, creative, thoughtful individuals almost, well, anywhere. We are saying, do you want to be a big fish (one of these individuals) in a small pond (of lots of other individuals not like this), or do you want to be one of a lot of well-educated, creative, thoughtful, individuals? The latter may give you a come-uppance; you won't be a big fish in a small pond, but you'll be swimming amongst a lot of other like-minded individuals, and, in my personal opinion, everyone will be the better for it. You will rub elbows with other educated, creative individuals; there will be a tipping point, a recognized majority, of educated, liberal-minded (and I am not speaking politically), open-minded, individuals; community and local political decisions will be made by and influenced by and based upon these individuals. You will not be who you are IN SPITE OF where you are from; you will be who you are BECAUSE OF everyone else amongst whom you live. It is a synergy.

I love Minneapolis. Although my friend (who went to med school there) pointed out that your eyeballs freeze in the winter if you don't blink often enough.

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who has lived both in the Midwest and in this DC area. And have family in both area. The thing is: of COURSE there are educated people (and cultured people, thoughtful people, etc.) in every region of the country. Of course, this goes without saying! But in my own PERSONAL experience, there are certain areas where there is a greater percentage of overall educated (and thoughtful and cultured) individuals, and you need to reach a certain tipping point, and I find that more in the DC-metro area than in other areas I have lived in the Midwest. There may be exceptions: Chicago is one that immediatley leaps to my mind. OF course! I am also thinking of Ann Arbor or, I have never been to Cincinatti, but what other friends have told me and what some of you have said here, yes, it sounds this way too. But I have also lived in South Bend, and let me tell you: you'd have to be smoking crack if you tried to tell me you get just as many educated (and cultured and thoughtful) individuals living there as in the DC area, and that's even with Notre Dame, St. Mary's, and other educational institutions taken into account. Amongst the general South Bend populace, there is NOT the same amount of educated (creative, thoughtrful, etc.) individuals. There just isn't. I have other relatives who live near Valparaiso and I have been to neighborhood and community gatherings with other folks in their neighborhoods and towns: it's not the same and the conversations are NOT the same as ones I have had with my neighbors around here. There is NOT enough of them to have reached that "tipping point" for my own personal tastes.

One really interesting book to read about this topic is: THE RISE OF THE CREATIVE CLASS by Richard Florida.

I like living in areas where is a large enough creative class to pass that threshhold where the community decisions are largely made by and affected by creative class individuals.

Minneapolis is another city with a highly educated population. It's always in the top ten on the lists of the most educated cities in the US. One reason is how many schools are in Minnesota alone. Tons of liberal arts schools. Minneapolis/St Paul is highly educated, very progressive, and the area also is on the top of the list for cities with the highest passport ownership. It really is a hidden gem that never makes it onto most people's radar.

Anonymous wrote:I am one of the PPs who has lived both in the Midwest and in this DC area. And have family in both area. The thing is: of COURSE there are educated people (and cultured people, thoughtful people, etc.) in every region of the country. Of course, this goes without saying! But in my own PERSONAL experience, there are certain areas where there is a greater percentage of overall educated (and thoughtful and cultured) individuals, and you need to reach a certain tipping point, and I find that more in the DC-metro area than in other areas I have lived in the Midwest. There may be exceptions: Chicago is one that immediatley leaps to my mind. OF course! I am also thinking of Ann Arbor or, I have never been to Cincinatti, but what other friends have told me and what some of you have said here, yes, it sounds this way too. But I have also lived in South Bend, and let me tell you: you'd have to be smoking crack if you tried to tell me you get just as many educated (and cultured and thoughtful) individuals living there as in the DC area, and that's even with Notre Dame, St. Mary's, and other educational institutions taken into account. Amongst the general South Bend populace, there is NOT the same amount of educated (creative, thoughtrful, etc.) individuals. There just isn't. I have other relatives who live near Valparaiso and I have been to neighborhood and community gatherings with other folks in their neighborhoods and towns: it's not the same and the conversations are NOT the same as ones I have had with my neighbors around here. There is NOT enough of them to have reached that "tipping point" for my own personal tastes.

One really interesting book to read about this topic is: THE RISE OF THE CREATIVE CLASS by Richard Florida.

I like living in areas where is a large enough creative class to pass that threshhold where the community decisions are largely made by and affected by creative class individuals.

This is an important point. You do need enough people who are invested in civic and cultural life. DC has almost twice the number of people with advanced/professional degrees (I'm ONLY talking about the city, because I am 100% not putting the time in to break out stats for the region). There are only about 30,000 people with advanced degrees in Cincinnati vs. 120,000 in DC (twice the population), so if that is your metric, yikes. On the other hand, how many do you need to get what you want? How many friends can you handle? I don't need 50,000 political junkies in my life. I need and have maybe 50 with different perspectives.

One of the truly wonderful things I've learned here is that people do not have to have degrees to be credible and effective citizens and human beings. We have more diverse and democratic community leadership, and the COL makes it possible for people to risk failure in ways they might not be able to elsewhere. The result is more innovation than you might expect. When I look at DC, I see that a lot of what's different is about money/demographics. When I look at Midwest cities, I see more people solving problems and making good lives in interesting ways.

Incidentallys... DC has significantly more Latinos and almost twice as many Asians (3.5% vs. 1.8%). Those identifying as multiracial/other/Native/Pacific Islander are about the same percentage. DC is more diverse, but not by an astonishing degree.

Anonymous wrote:Actually I don't think OP ever identified what city she lives in. It was someone else who brought up Cincinnati.

Exactly. The OP and the Cincinnati person are two different people.

Actually I don't think OP ever identified what city she lives in. It was someone else who brought up Cincinnati.

I only visited Cincinnati and It's a lovely place, I am sure it's great to live there, plus it is a Delta hub and flights must be very convenient if you want to go places, which contributes to QOL. It is definitely livable and I am sure, OP, you enjoy it immensely. I see no reason why you need to move. It is not, however, a world class city, it is not a destination city, so you cannot fully expect Cincinnati to have the same reputation as DC especially in the eyes of the young starry eyed college grads. DC is a more glamorous location, and that's pretty much what it is. Plus, there is more going on in terms of jobs, careers and access to powerful people able to make decisions about the future of this country and things that affect the world at large. The international crowd here consists not only of immigrants, but of powerful officials, the elite and the employees of world organizations. It matters a lot to some people, and that is why they are here. It is true, that there are certain things you could only do in DC. It is a "hub" of something (politics) just like NYC is a hub of finance, Bay Area is a hub of technology, Boston is a hub of education and research, and LA is a hub of entertainment business. Not that, any of these businesses don't take place anywhere else, they do, but these are the cities known to be hubs and having special significance in the eyes of people, which makes them more glamorous locations for people who want to experience them.

Nobody is bringing down your city, OP, but sometimes you come out as a snob too, basically suggesting that people who choose to live in this expensive area are stupid and they could have same or better amenities elsewhere for less. It is absolutely true that you can have your sidewalk cafes and restaurants and ethnic food and boutique stores anywhere in any medium size city on a smaller scale, you can have your museums and performance arts and even better maybe than here, but it's not these amenities people come here for. They have a reason to stay here, just like you have a reason to enjoy your hometown and I bet part of it is also that you must have a family there and this makes a big difference. FWIW, I don't work in the industry that DC is known for, I could do my job anywhere, but part of why we are here is also family and circle of friends, this makes DC metro a better place for us even than more exciting or more reasonably priced destinations. How, do we afford it? We bought long ago and it was expensive, but eventually we are better off. to each their own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread originally started as "how do you afford DC." Then it morphed into "convince me to move away from a dirt-cheap area that I love."

I give up.

To be more precise, "Show me how you afford to live a decent life in DC, because when I run the numbers it looks as though we'll be totally poverty-stricken, live in a slum, and have to dig in the sofa cushions to take Metro to the great free/cheap stuff."

I used to know how to live in DC, because my salary bore some relationship to my housing costs. Now it just seems wildly abstract. We're packing now. How are we going to make this work?

PS - If you live in one of the most expensive cities in the country, everywhere else is not "dirt cheap." It's, like, normal to be able to buy a house for double-ish your annual income.

I am from SF, it was never possible there to buy your home on double your income unless you were making big bucks even back in early 90s. Yes, there were some homes to be had for 200K (mostly dumps), but 100K a year was a lot of money back then, it's like 300K now.

The point here is, if you are OP, is that you are making a very high income probably for your area, you are probably at the top 1% there and here in DC you won't be. So, that is why you feel like your quality of life is much better. It won't be better in any higher COL place where you realize you are not a big fish in a small pond but a small fish in a big pond.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:46, I hear you. In the Midwest, include Madison, Minneapolis, possibly Columbus in that mix. As for South Bend, most of the area is a dump and has been sincere Studebaker went bankrupt in the 1960s. Detroit area is the same way-there are suburbs where professional people live but it is mostly people who have no interest in the outside world.

I used to live in Columbus and it was a complete snooze fest *1000. Please. I am from the West Coast, but after 6 months of living in Cbus, I visited DC for the first time and I felt like I was in a different country and different planet. Maybe in the last 10 years Cbus revitalized, I have a hard time believing this though. It was the most boring city I've ever had a chance to live.

I have to add I used to drive to Cincinnati to get a little bit more vibrant urban feel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10:46, I hear you. In the Midwest, include Madison, Minneapolis, possibly Columbus in that mix. As for South Bend, most of the area is a dump and has been sincere Studebaker went bankrupt in the 1960s. Detroit area is the same way-there are suburbs where professional people live but it is mostly people who have no interest in the outside world.

I used to live in Columbus and it was a complete snooze fest *1000. Please. I am from the West Coast, but after 6 months of living in Cbus, I visited DC for the first time and I felt like I was in a different country and different planet. Maybe in the last 10 years Cbus revitalized, I have a hard time believing this though. It was the most boring city I've ever had a chance to live.

Columbus has improved but I agree it is not one of the more exciting places in OH.

Anonymous wrote:10:46, I hear you. In the Midwest, include Madison, Minneapolis, possibly Columbus in that mix. As for South Bend, most of the area is a dump and has been sincere Studebaker went bankrupt in the 1960s. Detroit area is the same way-there are suburbs where professional people live but it is mostly people who have no interest in the outside world.

I used to live in Columbus and it was a complete snooze fest *1000. Please. I am from the West Coast, but after 6 months of living in Cbus, I visited DC for the first time and I felt like I was in a different country and different planet. Maybe in the last 10 years Cbus revitalized, I have a hard time believing this though. It was the most boring city I've ever had a chance to live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well said.
This place is like a coffin. Once you are in, you cannot get out

+1 million billion

God help me.

That is so sad. What makes you all think this?

Well, I have been wanting to leave for years; DH always has an excuse not to. Life circumstances take over. And yes, the longer you build your career in this vacuum, the harder it is to translate elsewhere.