We can pretend that we live in a world we don't live in, or we can face reality and live in the world in which we do. Name a city in which black and white people live in harmony, side by side, ebony and ivory style. Name a school that your kids go to where the lunchrooms arent divided on color lines. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

That said, the families that would send their kids to a school that, by your argument, "concentrates a certain slice of white students" (which has yet to be proven but is probably true for 75% of students) arent going to be otherwise integrating with the rest of DC anyway. They are going to either a) go private or b) leave the city.

The capitol of the free world should not be a place where residents of the city have to leave the city in order to educate their children. Promoting families such as those in question staying in DC when their kids get to school age is absolutely in the best interests of DC as a whole.

When did you move to DC? I have lived here since the 80s, and it was a real shithole then. After the King riots, there was white flight that lasted for a long time. People didnt live in Chinatown, people didnt live in Adams Morgan, many parts of the Hill, along much of 14th Street (dont want to name all of the Logan Circles, etc.). DC was the murder capital of the country. Our nations capital was the city with the most murders in the country. People came downtown to work and then went home to the suburbs, or to small enclaves in small parts of the Hill, or Upper NW.

But educated middle and above class families--black and white--have moved back to DC in the past 20-some years. This demand for housing is what has revitalized the aforementioned neighborhoods, and what brings much-needed tax dollars to the city. Ultimately, more tax dollars coming into the city helps *all* of the residents of the city--rich, poor, and in between.

So yes, I feel that if Washington Hebrew School keeps some middle to upper middle class families in the city vs moving to the suburbs where they can get a good free education for their kids, it is a good thing for the city as a whole.

It looks like some people are putting out unsupported statements about class and race in DC, so here are some data, just to keep the conversation honest.

2009 poverty numbers/rates in DC from the Kaiser Family Foundation website: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/profileind.jsp?cat=1&sub=2&rgn=10

White 12,600 6%

Black 103,100 34%

Hispanic 16,800 26%

Other NSD NSD

Total 136,600 23%

I don't think that Washington Hebrew will be filled with kids whose parents want a tie to Israel any more than Yu Ying is filled with kids whose parents want or have ties to China. Such families make up a significant bloc in the school, but many of us are parents who wanted something else (in our case, a challenge for our child) and considered YY to be an adequate substitute.

(Of course, now that we're in, we're committed to making changes to support our kids' education, including studying some Chinese ourselves. But we would never have done this if our DCPS had met our child's needs.)

I think the point is, a cul-de-sac school that concentrates a certain slice of white students of means is not an overall good thing for an already unequal city.

It is that many more families who get to say they don't need to make an effort to integrate with the rest of DC.

While people can claim to have established a neutral principle in favor of this school, it clearly would promote inequality in practice.

From what I understand, it takes a lot of work to start and run a charter school. You have to develop curriculum, a budget, have staff and faculty in place, have students, work with district administration, etc. If there are people dedicated enough to Hebrew immersion that they are willing to take on this task, and enough students in DC who are interested enough in this educational model that they will attend (thus providing the $3k/kid or whatever a charter school gets from the district to function), well good for them. At least they are a) doing something more productive for the district as a whole than bitching on an anonymous internet message board and b) putting their tax dollars to work.

So, going with the argument that I have seen on page after page after page, what if more students are from tenleytown vs barry farms? Dont families in Upper NW pay taxes also? Isnt that where the $3k per kid comes from? Again--why is this a problem?

Because the idealists in the group want either a charter school that is specifically focused on the east-of-the-river population or no charter school at all. Why is this? Is a Hebrew school taking the "spot" of a school that would otherwise better serve this population? Im going to say that no, no it is not. Its founders, staff, etc. are not going to decide that if they can't have the Hebrew school they want, they are going to start a vocationally-focused school instead. And that will leave us where we are today--with more students who want charter schools than there are charter schools available today.

DC has the capacity for more charter schools. There just arent enough people who are willing/able to put in the time and effort to found one. The posters who commented on a potential Arabic-language charter school? Awesome idea--start one! Another hospitality focused school? Start one! Chinese is going to be the language that business is conducted in moving forward--is Yin Yang enough? Perhaps one Chinese-language school isn't enough. Would someone like to start a second?

That is how it works with the DC Charter school system. Citizens who are dedicated to the education of the citizens of the city give up their time to help educate the city's children. Charter schools aren't magic entities that appear to educate your children, or the children of the poor underpriveleged FARMS kids.

And hey--if someone wants to start a Washington Gaelic school and can get past the bureaucratic hurdles to bring it to fruition and find enough kids to fill the seats...well then Erin go Bragh!

Dude I want Washington Gaelic. All are welcome!

Anonymous wrote:So, a charter for rich upper NW parents who don't want to deal with DCPS. Uh, congratulations?

I think it's more for families outside of upper nw. Lots of younger families with less disposable income than the folks who bought before the boom and who wish to stay in more central parts of the city.

--there is a demographic portion of the application in which the parts of the city and student populations that will be targeted for this school will live. As well as an area where you indicate your proposed school location. I would assume that the charter school board, upon review of the application, would identify whether those are a problem. You know, when they know what the schools board plans, vs speculation on an anonymous Internet message board

--- On this, does anyone really expect the applicants to write, " we know that Hebrew isn't a world language and it really only draws interest from Jewish parents who want their children to have this cultural element as part of their education. And yes, as a general matter, many of those parents will be middle class or better, and certainly not FARMS families. They will very likely come from areas with either an established or growing Jewish population, i.e., west of RCP or parts of Wards 1 and 4 and the Hill with significant white populations, and this school intends to serve them culturally and academically. Familes from other wards or backgrounds who think their kids would get a better education through bilingualism, generally but not in a practically useful way, along with the privilege of going to school with Jewish children who we expect to succeed will also be interested in our school.

They won't write that, so the Board won't have that to evaluate.

Anonymous wrote:So, a charter for rich upper NW parents who don't want to deal with DCPS. Uh, congratulations?

Of course. Jewish = rich. Nice. Also Shylocks too, right?

So, a charter for rich upper NW parents who don't want to deal with DCPS. Uh, congratulations?

I'm a VA resident, was intrigued by the length of this thread and frequent reoccurrence, so I have read most of it over the past few weeks, and looked at the charter school application and previous applications, budget requirements, etc and don't quite get the uproar before a charter has even been submitted. The way I see it, and please correct me if I am wrong:
--Hebrew school is writing charter for 2012/13 school year
--there can be up to 20 charters approved per year
--in 2010 there were 13 applications for 2011 school year (per charter school board website)
--as there isn't a large number of applicants that would result in one charter being chosen over another due to #s...why can't it be approved, and let the market for a Hebrew language charter school sort itself out?
--there is a demographic portion of the application in which the parts of the city and student populations that will be targeted for this school will live. As well as an area where you indicate your proposed school location. I would assume that the charter school board, upon review of the application, would identify whether those are a problem. You know, when they know what the schools board plans, vs speculation on an anonymous Internet message board
--there is also a very in depth budget section of the application. I know that the charter board has been in existence since 96 so I assume that they have seen one or two of these before. I.e. If the proposed $$ based on anticipated student enrollment aren't legit, they will flag it.
--the application also indicates that the school can't teach religion. Wouldn't it be a waste of time for the founders to start a school teaching some Judaism along with their Hebrew if they end up getting their charter yanked in the process?
--there is not only the charter board review of the charter, but an open community review session. So it's not like the charter is written and automatically approved and kids start reading right to left the next day.

This just seems like 16 pages of ridiculousness and accusations and unfounded silliness to me. Not even putting the cart in front of the horse, but putting the cart in front of th horse before it is shod or even weaned off of it's mom.

That said, I know that a cry of antisemitism generally takes away any and all authority of the statements preceding it, but two of my husbands best friends said something to him in all seriousness today about Jews being involved with Jesus' death (they are Catholic, we are Jewish). This made me realize that antisemitism really is still out there, even if subtly. And makes me wonder whether this 16 pages of drama over a charter that hasn't even been submitted yet has it's roots in antisemitism?

In my mind a Hebrew language based charter that picks up where Jewish Primary leaves off in 6th grade would be ideal. A lot of families from Jewish Primary end up at other privates or at the Jewish Day School in Rockville - or they leave the school early in 5th grade so they can start at a public or charter middle school (Deal, Latin, etc.). A middle/high school option with a language component (Hebrew or Hebrew/Arabic both) would help fill a need, I believe, moreso than an charter ES would.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people that want to fix schools with other people's kids?

I have yet to meet an anti-charter zealot with kids in Garfield ES (6% proficient) or Johnson MS (15% proficient), or schools like them.

I have met a bunch of people from east of the River and all over town with kids in charters, and they are thanking their lucky stars their family has that option.

Congratulations! You win the thread!

Not exactly. There is nothing here that proves that when DC families say they want charters, it's a Hebrew charter they want above everything else.

The point of charters isn't to provide everyone "what they want above everything else," rather it is to provide everyone school choice. You can't provide school choice without providing... actual choices. And, if you want the choices to be successful, then among other challenges, they must be attractive on a programmatic level.

Congratulations Washington Hebrew, you've cleared that hurdle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations! You win the thread!

Not exactly. There is nothing here that proves that when DC families say they want charters, it's a Hebrew charter they want above everything else.

And there is nothing here by the anti-charter crowd that helps parents without good options and who must make a choice in the next few months. You may have the luxury of a hypothetical argument, some of us face the stark reality of where to enroll our children next year.

I agree with you, I don't disagree. My only point was, the PP thinks the thread has been "won" in favor of the Hebrew charter because of somebody else's generic argument about the need for charters in general. Not so -- sine qua non and all that.

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations! You win the thread!

Not exactly. There is nothing here that proves that when DC families say they want charters, it's a Hebrew charter they want above everything else.

And there is nothing here by the anti-charter crowd that helps parents without good options and who must make a choice in the next few months. You may have the luxury of a hypothetical argument, some of us face the stark reality of where to enroll our children next year.