Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
...

When I look back at all the things I wish had been different about my middle school and high school experience, and what I wish my parents knew, I never wish for a parent with her views. I know a lot of seriously damaged people with whom I went through many years of the gifted program, including one truly profoundly gifted kid who won a national science prize and went to MIT at 15, and my highest wish as a parent is to avoid that kind of an educational experience for my children. None of us - I really mean this - NONE - had a good outcome. I'm probably the most together of the bunch now. None of us have gone on to become the Google guys, or discover the cure for a rare disease, or to become president of whatever. We are all, for the most part, plagued by the sense that we didn't live up to our potential. The math whiz I mentioned above is plagued by depression and can rarely get out of bed sometimes.

My kids will never know their IQ scores. I wish I had never been told mine, although all my teachers knew it. I'll never forget my sophomore year when a language teacher threw it in my face in a classroom spat (in front of all my classmates) when he was ranting about how he wanted to teach normal kids and not kids like me with an IQ of XXX. (I came up with a question for which he had no answer. Apparently one is not supposed to do that in German class.) Being told my highly gifted IQ number and being labeled gifted was all bad, not good. It robbed me of the ability to be proud of my accomplishments (because, hey, with that IQ I should have done well - in fact better because I missed one question, so I really didn't do well at all). It didn't teach me how to buckle down and work hard even if I didn't like the teacher because - who cares? - I was gifted. I never liked school after 5th grade (when I got the label) until I got to a very strong and top 5 rated liberal arts college. If the school had not chosen to put more faith in my interview and SAT scores than in high school class rank (I think I was only top 10% and my grades were very uneven), I am not sure where I would be now. Maybe answering phones for RCN. Certainly not holding the kind of job that lets me choose to send two kids to private school.

The PG crusader will come back and have some argument about why what she is advocating will not have this result. But look at her statement about honor roll and how it isn't right for gifted kids to be on it if they are only putting out half the effort. That, my friends, is robbing your kid of his or her accomplishments. I hope her kids don't do what I did, and stand numb after hearing they got As on their thesis defenses and would graduate with high honors in their academic majors. I knew I should be happy, but all I could feel was a small relief that I didn't f up. At least I still get out of bed.

I think many of us can identify with your statements, and have similar stories to tell. My personal struggle is with figuring out how to let those experiences inform my choices for my children without projecting myself onto them.

I'm the NMSSF, and I also identify with your statements. I'm weighing here how much to put out on the internet about my experience, or my kids' experiences. I will say, however, that I have learned to admire how my parents handled it. As I've posted before on this thread, they didn't tell my my IQ, or make a big deal of it. Instead they emphasized working hard over IQ, gave me as many challenges as possible in school and extracurricular, and supported my sometimes bizarre special interests (teaching myself the subjunctive in 4th grade, and that's just a start). I think my mom may have learned a few things from her own experiences as a brilliant faculty brat.

Anonymous wrote:I take offense to what has been said here. My children get praise for effort. If they try their hardest and get a C on a project I will be happier than if they got an A for pissing around until the last minute and throwing something together.

I'm not going to put my child on a pedestal if they get all As and they didn't do any homework and aced the tests anyways. Some gifted kids can do just that year after year. If I did praise them for those As what would that teach them? That they are so freaking special they can just sit on their ass and do nothing and get their names on the honor roll simply because they showed up? No thank you.

That being said I'm going to make sure they ARE challenged adequately so the above scenarios won't play out anyways. And THAT was my whole point anyways. I think that sounds pretty reasonable and level headed, right? Don't most parents agree with this? I mean you wouldn't want to shower a third grader with praise for knowing the alphabet.

I can't believe that you guys are so worked up that you are still blathering on.

I actually agree with you on this. I'm the NMSSF with kids in magnets. My kids don't know whether they are "smart" because I never told them their IQs, just like my parents never told me my IQ. I suspect my kids have their own suspicions, because they have friends who didn't get into the magnets, but they don't know the results from either magnet or private school testing. But in any case, my mom (who belongs to MENSA) explained her reasoning once: if I found out my IQ was really high I'd stop trying, and if I found out it was really low, I'd also probably stop trying.

My mom rewarded effort, and that's what I do with my kids. I also believe that persistence and motivation are as important in success as IQ, and rewarding effort helps with kids learn to be persistent.

I'm no sure why you're taking "offense." I do "take offense," however, at your idea that it's we who are blathering on. It takes two to tango, and you've been participating all along!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because if they worked hard on something and got a C I'd be happy about it because they tried their best?

I'm really very laid back and am not concerned with grades or Ivy admissions. I just want my kids to be kind to others, have a good head on their shoulders and know the value of hard work.

Because I think it is not so easy to tell when a student is working hard and when they are slacking. Brains undergo a change as a person goes through adolescence. Kid's behaviors and methods of coping are fundamentally different than those of adults. What appears to be slacking in a kid can often be struggling, not with the academic material, but with organization skills and focus. Some times age is the best way to solve these kinds of problems (with gentle coaxing towards the correct direction).

I totally agree that it's not always straight forward to a parent. Teachers can be a big help in this department and will usually be happy to give you advice. This is more relevant when your kid is struggling though and you are trying to sort out if it's lack of effort or a genuine learning challenge.

But if your kid is breezing through an hours worth of homework in 20 minutes or refusing to do it all together and is still getting straight As it is pretty straight forward.

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because if they worked hard on something and got a C I'd be happy about it because they tried their best?

I'm really very laid back and am not concerned with grades or Ivy admissions. I just want my kids to be kind to others, have a good head on their shoulders and know the value of hard work.

Because there's such a disconnect between what you say and what you do. You're not acting like a laidback person or a person who is kind to others. You're acting like a paranoid control freak who is incapable of listening or of self-critical reflection.

But I'm not the person who wrote that she pitied your kids. I'm just offering a take on why someone might say that.

Anonymous wrote:
...

When I look back at all the things I wish had been different about my middle school and high school experience, and what I wish my parents knew, I never wish for a parent with her views. I know a lot of seriously damaged people with whom I went through many years of the gifted program, including one truly profoundly gifted kid who won a national science prize and went to MIT at 15, and my highest wish as a parent is to avoid that kind of an educational experience for my children. None of us - I really mean this - NONE - had a good outcome. I'm probably the most together of the bunch now. None of us have gone on to become the Google guys, or discover the cure for a rare disease, or to become president of whatever. We are all, for the most part, plagued by the sense that we didn't live up to our potential. The math whiz I mentioned above is plagued by depression and can rarely get out of bed sometimes.

My kids will never know their IQ scores. I wish I had never been told mine, although all my teachers knew it. I'll never forget my sophomore year when a language teacher threw it in my face in a classroom spat (in front of all my classmates) when he was ranting about how he wanted to teach normal kids and not kids like me with an IQ of XXX. (I came up with a question for which he had no answer. Apparently one is not supposed to do that in German class.) Being told my highly gifted IQ number and being labeled gifted was all bad, not good. It robbed me of the ability to be proud of my accomplishments (because, hey, with that IQ I should have done well - in fact better because I missed one question, so I really didn't do well at all). It didn't teach me how to buckle down and work hard even if I didn't like the teacher because - who cares? - I was gifted. I never liked school after 5th grade (when I got the label) until I got to a very strong and top 5 rated liberal arts college. If the school had not chosen to put more faith in my interview and SAT scores than in high school class rank (I think I was only top 10% and my grades were very uneven), I am not sure where I would be now. Maybe answering phones for RCN. Certainly not holding the kind of job that lets me choose to send two kids to private school.

The PG crusader will come back and have some argument about why what she is advocating will not have this result. But look at her statement about honor roll and how it isn't right for gifted kids to be on it if they are only putting out half the effort. That, my friends, is robbing your kid of his or her accomplishments. I hope her kids don't do what I did, and stand numb after hearing they got As on their thesis defenses and would graduate with high honors in their academic majors. I knew I should be happy, but all I could feel was a small relief that I didn't f up. At least I still get out of bed.

I think many of us can identify with your statements, and have similar stories to tell. My personal struggle is with figuring out how to let those experiences inform my choices for my children without projecting myself onto them.

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because if they worked hard on something and got a C I'd be happy about it because they tried their best?

I'm really very laid back and am not concerned with grades or Ivy admissions. I just want my kids to be kind to others, have a good head on their shoulders and know the value of hard work.

Because I think it is not so easy to tell when a student is working hard and when they are slacking. Brains undergo a change as a person goes through adolescence. Kid's behaviors and methods of coping are fundamentally different than those of adults. What appears to be slacking in a kid can often be struggling, not with the academic material, but with organization skills and focus. Some times age is the best way to solve these kinds of problems (with gentle coaxing towards the correct direction).

Why? Because if they worked hard on something and got a C I'd be happy about it because they tried their best?

I'm really very laid back and am not concerned with grades or Ivy admissions. I just want my kids to be kind to others, have a good head on their shoulders and know the value of hard work.

Anonymous wrote:I take offense to what has been said here. My children get praise for effort. If they try their hardest and get a C on a project I will be happier than if they got an A for pissing around until the last minute and throwing something together.

I'm not going to put my child on a pedestal if they get all As and they didn't do any homework and aced the tests anyways. Some gifted kids can do just that year after year. If I did praise them for those As what would that teach them? That they are so freaking special they can just sit on their ass and do nothing and get their names on the honor roll simply because they showed up? No thank you.

That being said I'm going to make sure they ARE challenged adequately so the above scenarios won't play out anyways. And THAT was my whole point anyways. I think that sounds pretty reasonable and level headed, right? Don't most parents agree with this? I mean you wouldn't want to shower a third grader with praise for knowing the alphabet.

I can't believe that you guys are so worked up that you are still blathering on.

I pity your children.

I take offense to what has been said here. My children get praise for effort. If they try their hardest and get a C on a project I will be happier than if they got an A for pissing around until the last minute and throwing something together.

I'm not going to put my child on a pedestal if they get all As and they didn't do any homework and aced the tests anyways. Some gifted kids can do just that year after year. If I did praise them for those As what would that teach them? That they are so freaking special they can just sit on their ass and do nothing and get their names on the honor roll simply because they showed up? No thank you.

That being said I'm going to make sure they ARE challenged adequately so the above scenarios won't play out anyways. And THAT was my whole point anyways. I think that sounds pretty reasonable and level headed, right? Don't most parents agree with this? I mean you wouldn't want to shower a third grader with praise for knowing the alphabet.

I can't believe that you guys are so worked up that you are still blathering on.

Anonymous wrote:>And yeah, that should be "a NMSSF" not "an NMSSF," I ?>should have proofread it....

Not necessarily. Depends on how NMSSF is pronounced. Is it pronounced Nimsiff or is it pronounced "N M S S F." If the latter, then "an NMSSF" is correct.

What does NMSSF mean anyway?

National Merit Scholarship Semifinalist - it's for getting perfect or near-perfect scores on the PSATs.

00:16: just out of curiosity, are you a man or a woman?

Ah, see that's the kind of story I was interested in hearing when I started the "if you chose private for your gifted kid" thread yesterday. I could tell this sort of tale was lurking behind some of the posts here and wanted a way to continue the discussion but end the thread hijack. Would you cross-post to the other thread?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17:08, allow me to congratulate you on your correct use of ellipses....

I thought ellipses should only contain three dots...

In the middle of a sentence ... yes. But if they come at the end of a sentence, you have 3 dots for the ellipses, and then 1 dot for the period, making a total of 4 dots, not 3 or 5 or 6. The PP with the question correctly has 3 dots and a question mark.

For what it's worth, I'm guessing several of us who are arguing with the PG crusader did really well on this sort of thing on the PSATs and are NMSSFs and/or are very gifted, whatever you want that to mean. I'm not the first ellipses poster, or the one who caught "it's." I am an NMSSF, although my parents would never tell me the results of IQ tests. Another poster, again not me, actually identified herself as PG. This means we've lived the gifted thing ourselves, and we have kids who have also lived it. So when argue with a PG Crusader who gets things like this wrong (and believe me, we've been kind, there were lots of other opportunities), we speak from personal experience about advocacy, and what works and what doesn't work for gifted kids.

It is rare that I agree 100% with everything another poster has said. In this case, I do. She is dead right on punctuation. She is also dead right on the point that those of us who have personal experience with being gifted/highly gifted/profoundly gifted want to strangle the poster or posters who take such completely crazy positions about what is "right" for these kids - and she means (or they mean) all of these kids. I have not posted on this thread before, but I did post twice on the "S/O Privates are not filled with gifted kids" thread or whatever it was called. I was the "I give up" poster towards the end. After spending pages going on about how wrong we all are on these things and how private schools are a bad choice for gifted kids unless they do what she suggests, she ended with something like, "I will not judge you for your parenting choice in choosing to enroll your gifted kids in private school." I don't judge her for her parenting choices either, but I do seriously want to strangle her. The depth of her smugness knows no bounds, and I feel for her kids.

When I look back at all the things I wish had been different about my middle school and high school experience, and what I wish my parents knew, I never wish for a parent with her views. I know a lot of seriously damaged people with whom I went through many years of the gifted program, including one truly profoundly gifted kid who won a national science prize and went to MIT at 15, and my highest wish as a parent is to avoid that kind of an educational experience for my children. None of us - I really mean this - NONE - had a good outcome. I'm probably the most together of the bunch now. None of us have gone on to become the Google guys, or discover the cure for a rare disease, or to become president of whatever. We are all, for the most part, plagued by the sense that we didn't live up to our potential. The math whiz I mentioned above is plagued by depression and can rarely get out of bed sometimes.

My kids will never know their IQ scores. I wish I had never been told mine, although all my teachers knew it. I'll never forget my sophomore year when a language teacher threw it in my face in a classroom spat (in front of all my classmates) when he was ranting about how he wanted to teach normal kids and not kids like me with an IQ of XXX. (I came up with a question for which he had no answer. Apparently one is not supposed to do that in German class.) Being told my highly gifted IQ number and being labeled gifted was all bad, not good. It robbed me of the ability to be proud of my accomplishments (because, hey, with that IQ I should have done well - in fact better because I missed one question, so I really didn't do well at all). It didn't teach me how to buckle down and work hard even if I didn't like the teacher because - who cares? - I was gifted. I never liked school after 5th grade (when I got the label) until I got to a very strong and top 5 rated liberal arts college. If the school had not chosen to put more faith in my interview and SAT scores than in high school class rank (I think I was only top 10% and my grades were very uneven), I am not sure where I would be now. Maybe answering phones for RCN. Certainly not holding the kind of job that lets me choose to send two kids to private school.

The PG crusader will come back and have some argument about why what she is advocating will not have this result. But look at her statement about honor roll and how it isn't right for gifted kids to be on it if they are only putting out half the effort. That, my friends, is robbing your kid of his or her accomplishments. I hope her kids don't do what I did, and stand numb after hearing they got As on their thesis defenses and would graduate with high honors in their academic majors. I knew I should be happy, but all I could feel was a small relief that I didn't f up. At least I still get out of bed.

>And yeah, that should be "a NMSSF" not "an NMSSF," I ?>should have proofread it....

Not necessarily. Depends on how NMSSF is pronounced. Is it pronounced Nimsiff or is it pronounced "N M S S F." If the latter, then "an NMSSF" is correct.

What does NMSSF mean anyway?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the original poster who was following up on a pet peeve by asking how teachers deal with exceptionally gifted kids in lower grades: Yes, teachers tell the parents, usually in the context of parent-teacher conferences. Generally where there is extremely advanced verbal ability it comes as no surprise to a parent; sometimes outstanding mathematical ability is (may be less prone to come up in ordinary day-to-day family interactions).

Indeed. All my son's teachers told us during parent-teacher conference starting in PK. That would be the natural time.

Thanks to you and previous PP parents for your response...I am the PP who posted the question.