Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My prediction: The list of the best schools in the city, at every level, will be increasingly dominated by charters.

Only for middle school.

DCPS is by far the leader for elementary. High School is split.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

The “miracle” is that they somehow stopped social promotion and holding kids back benefitted them academically.

Maybe we should try it.

Maybe promoting innumeracy among adults is not the cure to illiteracy among children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

The “miracle” is that they somehow stopped social promotion and holding kids back benefitted them academically.

Maybe we should try it.

What we're doing now in DC clearly isn't working, and hasn't been working for a very long time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

The “miracle” is that they somehow stopped social promotion and holding kids back benefitted them academically.

Maybe we should try it.

Maybe promoting innumeracy among adults is not the cure to illiteracy among children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

The “miracle” is that they somehow stopped social promotion and holding kids back benefitted them academically.

Maybe we should try it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My prediction: The list of the best schools in the city, at every level, will be increasingly dominated by charters.

Only for middle school.

DCPS is by far the leader for elementary. High School is split.

No for elementary EOTP. It’s the immersion charters. Families that don’t get in then settle for DCPS.

Nope. Definitely not true on Capitol Hill.

OK, CH may be the exception but it is a very, very small part of EOTP.

Some CH families do choose immersion over DCPS but not majority.

No, it's actually you who are focusing on one specific slice of EOTP. Other parts -- CH included -- have different stories, but few of them are immersion charter-focused. Shepherd, Ross, Reed, Bancroft, Maury, Brent, Ludlow-Taylor, Chisholm, Payne, Watkins and Van Ness are all schools where DCPSes are the preferred destinations (either the IB itself or a nearby one). EOTR few kids are in immersion and the ones that are are mostly in/hoping for Chisholm.

Folks in Brookland, Eckington, Brentwood, Edgewood are heading to immersion (and other, e.g., Lee) charters because they're the closest good options. The charters that folks EOTR attend are not immersion, but they choose them for the same reason. For anyone close enough to Capitol Hill or WOTP, those DCPSes are typically the closest good options and so the first choice. As CH has gentrified, there are now many more CH ESes on the list and so more good spots for OOBers; same thing with the DCPS ESes along the North Cap corridor.

As a general matter, I think most people think -- and the test scores certainly bear out -- that DPCSes are the best-performing ESes.

Yeah agree. I know US News is somehow debatable, but all 10 of the top elementary schools are DCPS, with 6 WOTP and 4 EOTP (Ross, Shepherd, Maury, Brent).

And if anyone looked at that "who is beating 3rd grade expectations" chart, charter schools like Yu Ying and LAMB that have very low poverty rates have startling low 3rd grade reading scores -- they are underperforming relative to demographics.


Middle school is a different story, because DCPS really doesn't seem to have that figured out, curricularly.

But they come back in high school, with many DCPS schools offering sufficient challenge (Walls, Banneker, JR, MacArthur and McKinley Tech)

Ok, well kids at those immersion schools are learning everything via a second language. When the teacher is teaching them about ecosystems or conjunctions or Native American history or whatever, the teacher is not doing it in English.

Former LAMB employee. The kids don't speak Spanish. Almost none of them. Teachers may speak in Spanish but everyone responds in English. Try talking to one of these students in Spanish for longer than 2 seconds and they'll look at you like you have lobsters crawling out of your ears.

Pro-tip: If you're going to lie about a school, it should at least be a little bit believable. This is like claiming kids at BASIS don't know how to add or subtract.

I actually don’t think this is made up. My neighbors go there and they are in upper grades and barely speak Spanish and their friends don’t either. I’m a native speaker. My kids go to another bilingual chapter and it’s the same. There are so many kids in 5th grade who barely speak Spanish.

You are a native Spanish speaker and a former teacher at a bilingual school and your kids barely speak Spanish?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

The “miracle” is that they somehow stopped social promotion and holding kids back benefitted them academically.

Maybe we should try it.

What we're doing now in DC clearly isn't working, and hasn't been working for a very long time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

The “miracle” is that they somehow stopped social promotion and holding kids back benefitted them academically.

Maybe we should try it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

The Mississippi results are exaggerated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d also point out (something everyone hates) that for some reason independent of class, Black students do much worse on testing. The demographics of SWW vs BBHS: 23% black vs 69% an actual multiple of 3.

So view school outcomes with that lens as well.

------------------------
What is this supposed to mean? Spell it out clearly because this is gross.

I think this thread has gone way off track. Why dont we start measuring the heads of students too, I mean since were headed down that path.

The point is that if you compare schools without taking into consideration the differences in SAT test scores among students by racial background (whites score lower than Asians, so it's not like white students are the top of the heap) then you're not doing a rigorous comparison.

I get that you think it's racist to say that, but it's just reality that you should take into account if you're comparing SAT scores. Are students performing at their statistically expected level or out-performing it? That's called comparing schools with statistical rigor as opposed to just cherry picking numbers out of context.

You should read about schools in Mississippi.

Maybe it's your expectations that are fkced.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My prediction: The list of the best schools in the city, at every level, will be increasingly dominated by charters.

Only for middle school.

DCPS is by far the leader for elementary. High School is split.

No for elementary EOTP. It’s the immersion charters. Families that don’t get in then settle for DCPS.

Nope. Definitely not true on Capitol Hill.

OK, CH may be the exception but it is a very, very small part of EOTP.

Some CH families do choose immersion over DCPS but not majority.

No, it's actually you who are focusing on one specific slice of EOTP. Other parts -- CH included -- have different stories, but few of them are immersion charter-focused. Shepherd, Ross, Reed, Bancroft, Maury, Brent, Ludlow-Taylor, Chisholm, Payne, Watkins and Van Ness are all schools where DCPSes are the preferred destinations (either the IB itself or a nearby one). EOTR few kids are in immersion and the ones that are are mostly in/hoping for Chisholm.

Folks in Brookland, Eckington, Brentwood, Edgewood are heading to immersion (and other, e.g., Lee) charters because they're the closest good options. The charters that folks EOTR attend are not immersion, but they choose them for the same reason. For anyone close enough to Capitol Hill or WOTP, those DCPSes are typically the closest good options and so the first choice. As CH has gentrified, there are now many more CH ESes on the list and so more good spots for OOBers; same thing with the DCPS ESes along the North Cap corridor.

As a general matter, I think most people think -- and the test scores certainly bear out -- that DPCSes are the best-performing ESes.

Yeah agree. I know US News is somehow debatable, but all 10 of the top elementary schools are DCPS, with 6 WOTP and 4 EOTP (Ross, Shepherd, Maury, Brent).

And if anyone looked at that "who is beating 3rd grade expectations" chart, charter schools like Yu Ying and LAMB that have very low poverty rates have startling low 3rd grade reading scores -- they are underperforming relative to demographics.


Middle school is a different story, because DCPS really doesn't seem to have that figured out, curricularly.

But they come back in high school, with many DCPS schools offering sufficient challenge (Walls, Banneker, JR, MacArthur and McKinley Tech)

Ok, well kids at those immersion schools are learning everything via a second language. When the teacher is teaching them about ecosystems or conjunctions or Native American history or whatever, the teacher is not doing it in English.

Former LAMB employee. The kids don't speak Spanish. Almost none of them. Teachers may speak in Spanish but everyone responds in English. Try talking to one of these students in Spanish for longer than 2 seconds and they'll look at you like you have lobsters crawling out of your ears.

Pro-tip: If you're going to lie about a school, it should at least be a little bit believable. This is like claiming kids at BASIS don't know how to add or subtract.

I actually don’t think this is made up. My neighbors go there and they are in upper grades and barely speak Spanish and their friends don’t either. I’m a native speaker. My kids go to another bilingual chapter and it’s the same. There are so many kids in 5th grade who barely speak Spanish.

You are a native Spanish speaker and a former teacher at a bilingual school and your kids barely speak Spanish?

Anonymous wrote:As true as that is, in a triage situation, really any situation with scarce resources, it's hard to see how we don't prioritize the high schoolers who could become carjackers and then the kindergarteners who are on their way to becoming the next generation of carjackers.

Knowing that most of the top-grade students that we've got in DC could just go to private schools or move just tells us that DC's not going to and shouldn't focus on our kids. It's gonna focus on the children of the poor.

The problem is that educators don't know how to turn the children of the poor into high performers. Even medium performers. At least for anything beyond adopting the kids away from their actual parents. Which causes its own harm.